RPS-9 Yes or no?

I understand (it needs to be somewhat progressive).

Ok... How about another scenario? Given that the reason I wanted to use the RPS-9 was to somehow order the races with respect to each other.

Considering I have 9 races, 3 Good, 3 Neutral and 3 Evil, how would you go about setting up the order of the races? Meaning if I have High Elves (White - Life) that are good, who would they have an upper hand over?

Here are my races:

Good

1. Humans (Blue - Holy)
2. Mountain Dwarves (Yellow - Thunder)
3. High Elves (White - Life)

Neutral

4. Wood Elves (Green - Earth)
5. Dark Elves (Magenta - Cursed)
6. Gnomes (Grey - Machines)

Evil

7. Orcs (Red - Fire)
8. Giants (Cyan - Frost)
9. Undead (Black - Death)

So what I would want to know, would there be another way (better one) to determine who beats who (aside from using an RPS-9)???

The problem with this solution is that it works for simpler RPSs. In an RPS-5 you can almost remember all the ways to win. It's when it gets higher where remembering can be a challenge.

If I was to use this, I would have eight (8) icons in addition to the stats. That's a lot. The good thing is this is a "video game" not a CCG or Card Game, so I can put the symbols when you select the unit...

For the most part it is somewhat useless because match-ups are RANDOM. You place you unit and the opponent places the opposing unit facing it. Neither side knows what unit the opponent has played.

Where it becomes interesting is when the playing field of units (in the first row - melee units) is revealed and then players play their support units. Here is where all the strategy appears: given your available units and active abilities, you place your units in opposition to the melee units (to counter) the attacks or to add protection such a auras, boons, etc.

But remember the opponent will also be strategizing and will play the best possible support units to try to win the battle.

Thanks X3M that's pretty cool!!! 2 RPS system would be very possible AND logical! I will re-work the races but definitely it seems that this 2 RPS systems (2x RPS-3s) will simplify things instead of using an RPS-9...

I REALLY LIKE this idea! It's super.

I created the table with the 2 RPS systems and I think for the most part it works out:

Good

1. Humans > Lawful (Blue - Holy)
2. Mountain Dwarves > Chaotic (Yellow - Thunder)
3. High Elves > Neutral (White - Life)

Neutral

4. Wood Elves > Neutral (Green - Earth)
5. Dark Elves > Lawful (Magenta - Cursed)
6. Gnomes > Chaotic (Grey - Machines)

Evil

7. Orcs > Chaotic (Red - Fire)
8. Giants > Neutral (Cyan - Frost)
9. Undead > Lawful (Black - Death)

But now how do I determine who beats who?

#1 = Good beats Evil beats Neutral beats Good
#2 = Lawful beats Neutral beats Chaotic beats Lawful

---Start of Examples---

Example #1 = [Good] 1. Humans : Lawful vs. [Evil] 7. Orcs : Chaotic...

[Good] beats [Evil] BUT Chaotic beats Lawful!

Is this 1 Point vs. 1 Point = Tie (no winner)???

Example #2 = [Good] 1. Humans : Lawful vs. [Evil] 7. Undead : Lawful...

[Good] beats [Evil] BUT Lawful ties(?) Lawful(?!)

Is this 1 Point vs. 0 Points = Winner 1. Humans(?!)

---End of Examples---

I think the method will work once I understand how to determine the winners from the 2 RPS systems! :)

Many thanks for the help (and idea)!

Here are some of the interesting results in the tabulations of the various odds:

• Humans strong against Giants
• Dwarves strong against Undead
• High Elves strong against Orcs
• Wood Elves strong against Dwarves
• Dark Elves strong against High Elves
• Gnomes strong against Humans
• Orcs strong against Dark Elves
• Giants strong against Gnomes
• Undead strong against Wood Elves

They're not perfect (like I would have like Humans-Holy to be strong against Undead-Death) but it's still pretty cool! :D

Here is the revised data:

• Humans strong against Undead
• Dwarves strong against Giants
• High Elves strong against Orcs
• Wood Elves strong against Dwarves
• Dark Elves strong against Humans
• Gnomes strong against High Elves
• Orcs strong against Gnomes
• Giants strong against Wood Elves
• Undead strong against Dark Elves

Seems *more* logical - but the alignments don't look as nice on paper (who cares - the AI will do all the computation anyways)!

Note: Those are only the "strong" relationships or double damage (2x damage). I think *theme-wise* they are more harmonious.

Here is the revised tabular information regarding the races:

Good

1. Humans > Lawful (Blue - Holy)
2. Mountain Dwarves > Chaotic (Yellow - Thunder)
3. High Elves > Neutral (White - Life)

Neutral

4. Wood Elves > Neutral (Green - Earth)
5. Dark Elves > Chaotic (Magenta - Cursed)
6. Gnomes > Lawful (Grey - Machines)

Evil

7. Orcs > Chaotic (Red - Fire)
8. Giants > Lawful (Cyan - Frost)
9. Undead > Neutral (Black - Death)

As you can see I have made some corrections so that the relationships seem more natural!

I also used the SAME two (2) rules:

#1 = Good beats Evil beats Neutral beats Good
#2 = Lawful beats Neutral beats Chaotic beats Lawful

Ties are when both players choose the IDENTICAL element.

I misunderstood the system. Basically A -> B, E -> A and the other 2 matches are ties. Correct?

This is too simple, I have nine (9) races! I don't want to lower it down to five (5)... Thematically the races are SOLID. The alignment may seem a little bit "fudged" but still pretty GOOD.

Well that's sort of what the two (2) RPS systems do. Except it's not 1 of each. Specifically:

- 2 Attack
- 2 Defend
- 2 Attack & Defend
- 1 True tie (no battle)
- 1 does Double Damage
- 1 takes Double Damage

I have also been re-thinking the battle mechanic. At first I thought that melee troops would battle their opponents immediately... But this seemed a little bit random.

So instead I will let players place their melee troops, then their support troops and then a melee battle ensues. Lastly players will be able to try to heal wounded soldiers (melee) and cause more damage to the opponent (via active abilities).

The resulting number of rounds is:

1. Melee placement
2. Support placement
3. Melee battle
4. Active Abilities: Heal & Wound
5. Soul crystal match

After the battle (in round #4), each player can heal/revive troops depending on the damage dealt. Players may also inflict more damage to the opponent using "Active Abilities".

All this of course depends on the troops left on the battle field.

Round #5 is an optional round in which certain crystals can assume another crystal. So if you have Gnomes (Grey - Machines), they have their own special ability of mutating to any other crystal.

So they can for example become Red (like Orcs - Fire) or Blue (like Humans - Holy). Gnomes are the only race that can do this, because of the machines they build. Each machine can be built to match another crystal!

I'm really excited about this game... Obviously I am doing a lot of things that I cannot do with traditional tabletop games. But that's the point, if you are going to design a Puzzle-like game (like Bejeweled) that has RPG elements to it (like Puzzle Quest) that doesn't use pattern matching but placement instead, you might as well expand it to do things only a video game can do! :)

I hope that "Tradewars - Homeworld" gets published this should give me enough of a bankroll to produce the artwork for the Video Game ("Legendary Souls - Crystal Heroes" - Thanks Rich!!!)

I really don't want to have to deal with Publishers - it's a slow process... That's why the Video Game will be Homebrew. I can do it all myself (programming) and leave the artwork for my current artist. I also know of a good graphic designer who said he would be available for freelance work.

But the major part is getting the programming done. The Nintendo DS/DSi is a complicated BEAST. No very obvious - I am getting some help on-line from another developer. There is a lot to learn, a buggy and limited functionality set/libraries and various pieces to each part...

This is the best I could do. If somebody knows another method to create such a table please let me know (another format).

You can click on the image to see the COMPLETE table.

Note: To read/understand the chart:

1x = Normal Attack, 2x = Double Attack, 0 = Defend

This shows clearly when units will attack/defend. Like I said, it's not the prettiest chart but it does the job.

Update: Tomorrow I will see if I can make it into a RPS-9 with different lines... It may be possible and easier to visualize (MAYBE).

I have been simply drawing on a piece of paper and the RPS-9 looks UGLY! It may seems cleaner but there are SO MANY arrows. I'll see if I attempt to computerize it or not (tomorrow). Just wish there was a better way to visualize the relationships! :(

Here is the relationship diagram.

It does allow for decent viewing of the relationships (easier than the table IMHO).

You can click on the RPS-9 for a larger view of the diagram.

Explanations:

Black = Normal Attack, Blue = Attack/Defend, Red = Double Attack.