Insania Lupina - Werewolves vs. humans in medieval France // Your feelings are more than welcome !

Wed, 02/16/2011 - 23:39

#1

mdkiehl

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Joined: 12/10/2010

Welcome

Hello, I'm always happy to see some new faces. I'm fairly new here myself. It sounds like you have this game fairly well completed. It looks like you just need to do lots of play-testing. Do you have an artist you are working with or did you design your cards/board yourself?

I'm interested in the basic mechanics of your game if you would care to share some more information.

Regards,
-Matthew Kiehl

http://mdkiehl.wordpress.com

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 04:15

#2

sedjtroll

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Joined: 07/21/2008

Welcome!

I'd say "Welcome to BGDF!" but it sounds like you've been lurking for about a year already. So welcome out of the woodwork! It sounds like you have put some good effort into your game already - but I think you'll find some good and useful comments once you post your rules here. I recommend asking about specific things you might want advice on. General comments are good, but if you want people to comment on a specific part of your game that's giving you trouble, you should say so!

It sounds like a neat sort of game - something like Fury of Dracula or Scotland Yard. A game where 1 player plays against the rest, trying to stay hidden, while other players attempt to find him.

Other games that have used that sort of mechanism, are:
* The War of the Ring (fellowship has hidden movement, bad guys can try and find them, or just try to win before they get to Mt Doom.)
* Pandemic: On the Brink expansion include a Bioterrorist who moves secretly and who can be caught by the opponents

If you haven't already seen some of those games, they might be worth checking out for inspiration. Or I may have the premise of your game all wrong.

I'm glad you have decided to post, and I hope to see you participating in the forums in the time to come!

Good luck with your game!

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 07:45

#3

le_renard

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Joined: 10/08/2010

Thanks to both of you for

Thanks to both of you for your warm welcome !

mdkiehl wrote:

Do you have an artist you are working with or did you design your cards/board yourself?

To be honest, I'd like to have an artist working with me on this project ( even if I have some little graphic abilities ), but as it's not a game I ever planned to get published, I cannot offer any money and that's why I'm the captain and the crew of my little ship.

The sample card above is something I designed myself, using Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign & Corel Painter. The picture is based on a photo found on the internet ( I used the picture as a reference ) and I obviously would ask the person who took the picture the right to use and modify his image if my game ever got a chance to be available somewhere on the internet or elsewhere.

sedjtroll wrote:

It sounds like a neat sort of game - something like Fury of Dracula or Scotland Yard. A game where 1 player plays against the rest, trying to stay hidden, while other players attempt to find him.

You're right... my game combines a kind of Risk(y) feeling with this hidden character mechanic.
When I wrote the first lines of the game, I almost knew nothing about board games, except Arkham Horror ( like many newbies ). A friend of mine saw the sketches, and everything and told me "that's close to Fury of Dracula".
I bought and played the game and kept some of my ideas while giving up other ones.

In my game, the Werewolf leader starts the game with some injuries. It's better for him to remain hidden as long as he's not fully recovered, but he's not obliged to do so.

You're also mentioning a Pandemic extension that I don't know. I only played the core game and liked it a lot.
In Insania Lupina, the Plague can also burst somewhere on a board and spread, but it's not the core of the game...

I will try to post some rules, Play turns, etc...

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 12:31

#4

le_renard

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Joined: 10/08/2010

Basic Mechanics Overview : The role of Cities in the game

Well, i actually don't know where to start... so let's go...

CITIES
In Insania Lupina, the board game is a map of medieval France.
A dozen ( to make it simple ) important cities of that time are featured on the board. They're linked together by roads.

One of the goals of the player is to protect or assault these cities.

Each city has a value. This value represents the population rate, its wealth, etc...
2 is for the less important city, 5 is the capital.

These cities are also represented by tiles and cards.

The City tiles are put in a bag at the very beginning of the game.
Players will draw tiles from this bag when they need to. ( Secret Movement or Tracking the Werewolf Leader )
The City cards will be used to determined where a special event occurs ( Plague, Storm, etc... )

This Population value will also be used to determine the strength to resist to an assault.

Supports Points
The more cities a Player owns, the more Support Points he will get at the beginning of the turn.
Support Points are used to gain additional Action Points or the support of some Special Characters for a turn.
Support Points are to be kept secret.

Shops & Equipment
The "Human" Player will need to acquire some items to help them achieving their goals ( better swords or shields, bible, potions, wolf traps, silver weapons, etc... ).
These items all have a cost. The cost of an item also indicates in which kind of city you can find it.
A 4pts item can be acquired only in 4+ Population Cities, whereas a 1pt item can be found anywhere.

Plague Virulence
The amount of Population in a city influences the Virulence of a Plague epidemic.

Curse & Blessing
Cities can be cursed or blessed by characters having these abilities.
A Curse or a Blessing acts as a modifiers on the Population value of the city.

Food
Food is produced by Peasants and is required to sustain the human war effort.
Peasants can be placed within city areas to produce food. Larger cities will produce more food.

Click here to see the Prototype Map

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 11:35

#5

le_renard

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Basic Mechanics Overview : The Close Combat System

The Combat Mechanic of Insania Lupina is a very simple system based on six-sided dice and a Combat Value.
Several types of D6 are used :

Regular D6 for the Wolves and non-military trained Characters

Average D6 ( 2-5. No extremes ) for the Soldiers and the Knight

Damage Bonus Custom Dice

Defense Bonus Custome Dice

THE CLOSE COMBAT SYSTEM
Characters
Each player starts the game with a single character. ( This will be detailed in the Set-Up section )
The characters are represented by cards and corresponding tokens that will be used on the board game.
Each character has a Value. This general score is the cost of the character, expressed in Support Points.
To make it short, the more cities a player posess, the more Support Points he will get at the beginning of the turn. During the Enrolment Phase ( at the end of each player's turn ), a player can spend X Support Points to enrol a new character. ( X = Value of the enroled Character ).

When a Character is enroled, the player puts the corresponding token into play.

During his turn, a player can make his Characters perform some actions ( Move, Start a Combat, Besiege a City, Pray, Cast a Spell, etc... ). Each Action has a variable cost expressed in Action Points. The cost of an action depends on the difficulty of this action for a specified Character. ( Actions can be "Easy" or "Complex" )

Combat Value
Each Character has a Combat Value specified on its Character Card.
When two opponents are located on the same area, a fight occurs.

The Combat is resolved using a single dice for each opponent.
The Combat Value of an opponent is substracted from the Combat Roll.
The result indicates the amount of Hits.

If a Character benefits from a special ability or item, he can roll one or more Combat Bonus Die and add it to the total result.

Exemple: During its turn, a lone Wolf meets a group of 2 Peasants and attacks them.
The Wolf has 4 Health Points and a Combat Value of 3.
The Wolf Player decides that the Wolf is going to attack Peasant#1 and roll a dice.
The roll gives a 2.
Combat Value - Combat Roll = Number of Hits / 3 - 2 = 1
The first attack caused 1 Wound to Peasant#1
A Wound token is placed on the Peasant Character Card.

( If a Character has a shield or an armor, he can throw one or more Defense Bonus Die and substract the roll from the Wounds )

End of a Combat
The Combat ends when one of the side wins and kill its opponents, or when one opponent retreats.

The "Retreat" is an action based on the Action Score of a Character.
During a combat round, and instead of attacking, a player can try to retreat.
He then rolls a die and must get a roll equal or inferior to his Action Score.
If he succeeds, he can recoils from 1 area.
If he fails, he cannot attack during this turn.

Some Characters Tokens from Insania Lupina

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 13:14

#6

sedjtroll

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Joined: 07/21/2008

le_renard wrote:In my game,

le_renard wrote:

In my game, the Werewolf leader starts the game with some injuries. It's better for him to remain hidden as long as he's not fully recovered, but he's not obliged to do so.

I like the sound of that! Sounds like the WW leader basically gets more and more powerful until he's back to full strength, after which point the players will probably have an easier time finding him (he will reveal himself) but a harder time beating him (because he's full strength).

So the idea is to find him quicker, while he's weak. Neat.

Quote:

You're also mentioning a Pandemic extension that I don't know. I only played the core game and liked it a lot.

One of the options in the expansion is to play with 1 Bioterrorist player, who sneaks around (with hidden movement) and tries to make things worse for the players. It works kinda like Scotland Yard or Fury of Dracula.

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 16:35

#7

le_renard

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Basic Mechanics Overview : Secret Movements of the Werewolf

When I first imagined what kind of game I'd like to build around the so-called Werewolf persecution in the middle-ages, I instantly thought of a great Werewolf like in this old tv series...
If you kill the Father of All Wolves, you kill them all. I imagined that this mighty creature escaped from a pyre but was deeply wounded and weakened. Waiting for his day to come, he started hiding, constantly moving to avoid being caught while he was so weak. Hiding in the darkness, travelling by night from a city to another, benefiting from the everlasting support of some people refusing to convert to christianism...
I never wanted that the only goal of the game was to find him, but it definitely had to be an important "game-within-the-game". The Great Werewolf leaves hints and traces behind him and humans can gather these clues to guess where he is actually hiding.

SECRET MOVEMENTS OF THE FATHER OF ALL WOLVES
Unlike the "Human" player, the "Werewolf" player doesn't start the game with a single character on the board.
He has in hand the Father of All Wolves character card. This character is a unique one and can remain hidden until he's forced to reveal himself. This great Werewolf starts the game with several wound tokens placed on his character card. As long as he remains hidden, 1 wound token will be removed from his card at the beginning of each turn, until he's fully recovered. The Wolf player can reveal the location of the Werewolf leader whenever he wants during one of his turn.

Determining the intial location of the great Werewolf
During the set-up of the game, the Wolf Player will draw 3 City Tiles in the "Lair Tiles Bag". Each city is represented by a single tile. He can keep one of these tiles and place it face down in front of his Father of All Wolves card. This tile will represent the location where the Werewolf is currently hiding.
The other tiles return to the Bag.

Moving Secretely During the Game
During the Wolf Player turn, and the Secret Movement Phase, a new tile is drawn from the Lair Tiles Bag.
A "Trace Token" is placed on the previous Lair Tile, which is returned to the Bag.
The new tile will replace the previous Lair Tile.

Because he's leaving traces behind him, the Father of All Wolves can only hide in a city a limited number of times.
The number of times a city can be used as a lair for the Great Werewolf is indicated by the Value of the city.
Exemple : the Werewolf is hidden in the city of Pau (Value=1). He leaves the city to reach Marseille. The wolf player places a Trace Token on the board, in the Pau area. If, during one of the following turns, he draws the Pau tile again, he will not be able to move into it and will have to immediately give a Trace Token to the human player. Then, he will have to return this tile into the Bag and try to draw a better one.

The Werewolf Leader cannot hide in a city that is in possession of the human player.
If he draws a tile representing a human-possessed city, he must immediately give a Trace Token to the human player before drawing another tile.

Human characters can collect these Traces Tokens when they reach a city where the Werewolf has been hiding. The human player spend these tokens during his turn to draw one or more Lair Tiles himself.
The drawn tiles in his hand help him deduce where the Werewolf is hiding and force him to reveal himself. this phase is called the "Investigation Phase".
If the human player thinks he knows where the Werewolf is hidden, he can announce it (this has consequences and must not be done lightly). This is the "Accusation Phase".
These phases will be explained in the "Human Turn" article...

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 17:57

#8

le_renard

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Basic Mechanics Overview : Determining First Player

I wanted my game to have variable player order, even if it's only a 2 players game... I think that not being able to play at the very moment you absolutely need to do it can spice it up... Even if there are only a few characters represented in the game, I consider that they can benefit from the support of some parts of the population.
Each city has a Population Value. When you "conquer" a city, it provides some Support Points at the beginning of each turn. These Support Points can be used in several ways, like determining who is going to play first...

SECRET BIDDING : WHO IS THE DOMINANT?
At the beginning of each turn, each player receive a total amount of Support Points equivalent to his total Population Value + 1D6.

To determine who is going to be the Dominant Player (first player) during this turn, the players will have to face a secret bidding "duel". Each player secretely decides how many Support Points he is willing to spend to gain the privilege to act first. The players then simultaneously reveal their bid. The winner is the highest bidder.

The players have to pay the bidded Support Points, whether they won or not
If a player thinks that he will need all his Support Points later during his turn, he can choose to bid a "Zero" token.
If the result is a tie, the winner is determined by rolling 2 Curse/Blessing ( custom ) dice. If the Cross symbols outnumber the Wolf Head symbol : the winner is the Human player / if the Wolf Head symbol outnumbers the Cross symbol : the winner is the Wolf player

Being the Dominant Player can be decisive since the first player will have the opportunity to choose which Ally Character he's going to put into play during this turn ( Allies are neutral non-playable characters. They can be played by both sides during the game and confer special abilities to the players )

Sat, 02/19/2011 - 17:32

#9

le_renard

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Basic Mechanics Overview : Moon, Climate & City Cards

In the middle-ages, the weather had a heavy influence on everyday life. The moon was also considered as very influential too. I wanted these very important themes in the game to reinforce the atmosphere.
Insania Lupina is rhythmed by Moon Phases and climate changes.
The game begins with the New Moon and ends 8 turns later...
Each turn a tracking token is moved on a counter called "Moon Phase Tracker"... The players have to pick up two different cards each turn. These cards will have a strong impact on the turn....

Moon Phases Cards
The Moon Phases deck is a collection of contextual cards. These cards are quite text intensive and bring a very authentic medieval flavor to the session.
The content of the whole deck is inspired by french and european tales or historical facts linked to superstition, werewolves or witches trials, etc... Depending on the event, a human or werewolf character may be favored or removed from the board, etc...
Some special events like riots, plague epidemic are also featured in this deck.

Climate Cards
Each turn a Climate Card is drawn too. This card will influence the way characters will move or act during the turn. Some will not move at all or will see the number of their action points increased...
To ensure a certain cohesion in these random pick-up, players can choose or randomly determine the season in which the game will take place. Exemple : if the game happens in winter, only Ice Storm, Rain, Snow etc... will be put into play and form the Climate Cards Deck...

City Cards
The City Cards deck is composed of cards representing the different cities featured on the board game. The number of cards for each city is related to its Population Value Paris has a Population of 5. There will be 5 Paris cards in the City Cards deck.
Whenever an event needs to happen or start in a specific location, a City Card is randomly drawn.
Exemple : A Moon Phase card is drawn and features a "Plague Burst". A City Card must be drawn then to determine where the epidemic will start

Mon, 02/21/2011 - 03:51

#10

le_renard

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Basic Mechanics Overview : The Plague

In the 14th century only, the bubonic plague, known as Black Death, killed more than 100 million people in Europe. The eruption of the Plague shook the whole society and caused numerous persecutions. Foreigners and Jews ( among others ) were thought to be the cause of this divine punishment. The Plague affected both people and animals, reducing dramatically food supplies. Several waves of varying virulence Plague attacks were recorded at that time, making people flee from their homeland trying to save their lives.
I wanted this very important thematic element to be part of Insania Lupina. In the game, Werewolves symbolize all heretics and other scapegoats of that period, and they naturally are seen as the cause of the coming of Black Death upon France.

BLACK DEATH : SPREADING THE DISEASE

A Plague infection can happen if a Moon Phase Card featuring this dramatic Event is drawn.
The Dominant Player then places the Black Death event card besides the Moon Phase Deck.

Original Location of The Infection

The original location of the infection is determined by picking the City Card placed on top of its deck and placing it face-up besides the Black Death card.
The name of the City featured on the card will be the starting point of the epidemic.

Destination of The Epidemic

The virus will always spread towards the biggest city around ( The city with the highest Population Value )
In case of a tie, the Werewolf Player will choose.

Virulence of the Epidemic
The Virulence of the Epidemic indicates its strength and the range of its spread.

The Virulence is determined by adding a D6 to the Population Value of the Original Location of the infection.
A number of Plague tokens equal to the Virulence value is placed on the Black Death card.
A token is then immediately removed from the Black Death Card and placed on the infected city.
From now on, during each Plague Spreading Phase, a token will be removed each turn from this pool and placed on the board, on an area adjacent to the last placed Plague token towards the Destination of the Plague.

The Influence of the Climate on the Plague
People believed that winter or extreme temperatures would kill the virus and save them from death.

The Climate Cards feature a Skull symbol, representing the Plague, and a value. This value is a modifier and will affect the movement of the epidemic. If a "Heavy Rain" card is in play, the epidemic will benefit from this situation and will progress by +1 area. That means that 2 Plague tokens instead one 1, will be removed from the Black Death Card and placed on the board.

Maturation of the Virus
When a Plague token reach the destination of the epidemic, the virus is said to be "matured" and its spread will stop here.

Both Original and Destination Cities are destroyed.
A Plague token is placed on both cities to indicate they're not counting as cities anymore for the rest of the game.
A character can cross a destroyed city safely
If the Plague reaches a city area containing human characters, a number of characters equal to the number of Virulence tokens remaining on the Black Death card are to be removed immediately from the game.

Characters & Black Death

All non-human characters can cross the Plague path ( an arean containing a Plague token ) without fear.
Human characters can walk on a Plague infected area, but will have to face the consequences.
A Blessing/Curse die will be rolled for each action done in an infected area.
- If a Curse ( Wolf head ) symbol appears, the character must suffer 1 wound.
The Plague Doctor character is an exception. He only will roll 2 dice.
- The Curse and Blessing symbols are canceling each other
- If 2 Curse symbols appear, he must suffer 2 wound
- If 2 Blessing symbols appear, he may recover from 1 wound

A Cure ?
The "human" player can try to stop or slow down the spreading of the disease by enroling the Plague Doctor character.

The Plague Doctor can use Healing tokens to counter Plague tokens
A Healing token always cancel a Plague token
The Doctor can place some tokens on the path of the virus. In this case, the Plague and the Healing tokens cancel each other and they are both removed from the board
The Doctor can place a Healing token within a city area, whenever he wants to. In this case, this city will be considered as protected against the Plague if its corresponding card is revealed and supposed to be the Original Location of the infection. ( the Plague token cannot be placed on the city because of the presence of the Healing token that cancels it. In this case, the City card is removed from the game, and another card must be picked up.

Thu, 02/24/2011 - 13:37

#11

le_renard

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Wolves : Movements & Actions

Pack of wolves lived in the french woods at that time. One has to remember that forests covered almost all the surface of the country. Then people started cutting trees to develop agriculture. The wolves were then considered as a threat that men couldn't bear anymore and were almost eradicated.

WOLVES IN INSANIA LUPINA
In the game, almost all characters are completely controlled by the players. The Wolves are to be considered in a different way since they're more influenced than controlled.
To reflect their independant and unpredictable behavior, a custom dice called the Wolf Pack Die is to be rolled at the beginning of the turn. The symbol that appears tells the player how all the wolves on the board will act during this turn.

Wolves can act in 4 diferrent ways during the game:

Hunter : the wolves smell the presence of their prey and move directly towards it.
Howler : the wolves gather the pack and move towards each other. If their respective character tokens reach each other, they stack and form a pack. From that moment, each member of the pack will benefit from a Bonus Combat Dice.
Lurker : it's the only case in which the player can control the movements of the wolves freely.
Rest : the wolves don't move during this turn but recovers from 1 wound. It's the only way to recover from a wound for them.
A custom Wolf Pack Die

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 06:19

#12

le_renard

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The Characters : Faithful, Heretics & Allies

In Insania Lupina, you can find 3 types of characters :

The Faithful : they consider themselves as soldiers of Christ
The Heretics : they're perceived and treated as such
The Allies : they're neutral characters and don't take position

They're not used during the game in the same manner...

THE FAITHFUL & THE HERETICS
They're both playable characters who can be enrolled and actually moved on the board.

The Character Card
Each character has a Character Card that sums up his statistics and abilities.

Action : the number of actions a character can perform during his turn
Combat : a unique value representing the fight mastery of a character
Health : represents the number of wounds that a character can suffer before being removed from the board
Value : represents the overall importance of a character
Special Abilities : several graphic symbols are used to represent the various special abilities and bonuses of the different characters

To enroll a character, the player has to spend a number of Support Points ( gained by taking possession of cities ) equal to the Value of the character.

The Faithful
United by faith and the will to stop the forces of Satan, represented to them by the Werewolf clan.

Peasant / Cultivator : the base of the medieval society. He cannot besiege any city by himself but plays a double role as he can fight and move on the board or can be used as a Cultivator. In this case, he cannot fight or move anymore but produces food in the city area he settled in. It is necessary to feed the Faithful characters.
Soldier : a military trained character. He benefits from a special die for his combat rolls and can besiege a Small City.
Veteran : a military trained leader. He also benefits from various bonuses, can besiege a Medium City and has the "Commandment" trait ( a special ability that allows him to dispatch wounds or damages as he wishes).
Knight : a military trained mounted character. He can move faster, benefits from bonuses, can assault a Big City and uses a Blessed Sword(Special effects against some opponents)
Priest : he can use the Prayers Tokens at the disposal of the player to ask God for a blessing over a character or a city.
Doctor : the beaked plague doctor. He can use the Healing Points at the disposal of the player to stop or slow down a plague epidemic or restore health of other characters.
Forester : fast and strong, the forester can use traps and is not affected, unlike other characters, by the weather modifiers. On another hand, he's more subject to Lycanthropic infection than other humans.

The Heretics : The Werewolf Clan
The Werewolf clan and its allies represent those considered as heretics because of their refusal of denying ancient beliefs to embrace christianism. They're led by a great werewolf, the Father of All Wolves. Terribly injured by the flames of the inquisition pyre, he managed to escape and is now hiding, waiting patiently to recover and regain his power.

Wolf : The wolves are more influenced than actually controlled by the player. When gathered in pack, they benefit from a bonus combat die. They don't recover automatically from 1 wound each turn, unlike other characters. They cannot besiege a city by themselves. They can cross a city but never end their turn in one.
Lycanthrope : are they mad men convinced to be wolves or real werewolves ? All Lycanthropes on the board benefit from a bonus from full moon to the rest of the game. They can besiege a Small City.
Lesser Werewolf : a fully transformed creature, though at the bottom of the pack hierarchy. They can infect a victim and besiege a Medium City.
Pack Leader : the Alpha of the pack, a strong and dangerous creature. He benefits from bonuses, can assault a Big City and infect victims. He also has the "Commandment" trait
Witch : she can use the Curse Tokens at the disposal of the player to curse a character or a city. Her power is linked to the power of the Werewolwes. The more Werewolves on the board, the more powerful and influent she grows. She cannot besiege a city.
Malombre : the only unmaterial creature of the game. The Malombre takes the shapeless form of a dark red beast. It can only be hurt by a Priest or the blessed weapon of a Knight. It cannot besiege a city.
The Father of All Wolves : fast, strong and resistant, the Werewolf Leader starts the game hidden somewhere on the map. Deeply wounded at the beginning of the game, he recovers from 1 wound each turn. He can be revealed at any time by the player, or remain hidden. He can besiege any city, has the « commandment » trait, benefits from various bonuses. The game will end when he dies.

ALLIES : NEUTRAL CHARACTERS
Even if they heavily influence the game, they're not actual playable characters.
They cannot be moved on the board or perform actions.

How to Enrol Neutral Characters
Each Ally, or Neutral Character has a Character Card that sums up his abilities.
These abilities differs, depending on who has enrolled this character.
A Neutral character will not act the same way if he's been enrolled by the Faithful or the Werewolf Clan.

The Dominant Player ( the first player ) can choose to enroll 1 Neutral Character by turn.
The only limitation is that he cannot enroll the same character two times in a row.

The first player position is gained by winning the secret bidding phase that occurs at the very beginning of each turn.

All bidded Support Points are lost.

The Allies

Sailor : Cities by the sea don't produce food / Humans can use maritime ways
Merchant : Food production is reduced / Food production is increased + Faithful can purchase items
Tale-Teller : The Faithful player must reveal his Support Points / the Werewolf player must randomly discard one of his Influence Card
Mercenary : Damage & Defense Bonuses for this turn
Inn Tenant : One extra wound is automatically recovered from
Inquisitor : Peasants cannot act during this turn / the Witch must give a Trace Token directly to the Faithful player for each of her action
Builder : Builds a siege engine that can be used during this turn. (its power is related to the number of Support Points spent on it by the Player)

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 07:13

#13

le_renard

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Joined: 10/08/2010

Besiege a City

SIEGE
When a city is in possession of an opponent, you must assault it if you want to capture it.

Capturing a city is divided into three steps :

Encircling
Assaulting
Taking Possession of the City

Encircling
In this step, players compare their Values & Resistance.

Value of the Attacker : equal to the total Values of the characters assaulting the city
Resistance of the Defender :Population + Protection ( Curse/Blessing Tokens + Werewolf/Human possession Tokens + Characters Values if there are any within the city )

Some wounds are then placed on the wounded characters.

( Exemple : 2 Lesser Werewolves ( Value : 4+4 ) are assaulting a Medium City ( Population 3 ).
The city is alread protected by the Faithful ( Possesion Token : +1 ).
A Soldier is in the city ( Value : 4 )
The Priest has blessed the city ( Blessing Token : +1)

The Attacker Value : 8
The Resistance Value : 9

1 Wound is inflicted to one of the Werewolves.

In case of tie, the Siege lasts longer and the Encircling happens again during the next turn. ( The Attacker can retreat or be joined by extra forces )

Assaulting
All forces are now battling inside the city area. It's a classic Close Combat situation.

Taking Possession of the City
When the Attacker wins the Siege, he can take possession of the City.
A Possession Token is placed on the city.

The Attacker immediately wins a number of Support Points equal to the added Values of killed defending characters.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 09:21

#14

le_renard

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Turn Sequence

PREPARATION PHASE

1. Support Points are attributed to players
2. Dominant Player ( First player ) is determined ( Secret bidding )

CONTEXTUAL PHASE

1. Moon Phase Progression ( turn counter is advanced )
2. The Dominant player picks up contextual cards and applies their effects immediately :
a. Climate Card
b. Moon Card
c. City Card ( only when required by a climate or moon card )
3. Spreading of the Plague ( only when required )

GAME PHASE
The Dominant player performs his entire turn first, then the second player.
A Faithful and an Heretic turn are differents :

Faithful turn

1. An Ally ( neutral character ) is chosen
2. Characters enrolled at the end of the previous turn are put into play
3. Rest & Food
1 wound is automatically healed
Each character into play must be feed ( no feeding = 1 wound/character )
4. Investigation & Accusation ( to find the hidden werewolf leader)
5. Actions ( Movements, special abilities, etc...)
6. Combat
7. Siege
8. Food Production
9. New characters are enrolled

Heretic turn

1. An Ally ( neutral character ) is chosen
2. Characters enrolled at the end of the previous turn are put into play
3. Rest
1 wound is automatically healed
4. Secret Movement ( the hidden werewolf leader moves )
5. Wolves Movements & Actions
6. Actions ( Movements, special abilities, etc...)
7. Combat
8. Siege
9. New characters are enrolled

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 09:58

#15

le_renard

Offline

Joined: 10/08/2010

I need your advice

Hi everyone...
I updated this topic almost daily since it was created, translating the rules into english, and adding a kind of summary in the "Mechanics" section... I even added some pictures, so you can get a better idea of it all...
I know there are a lot of things to read and that many of you are working very hard on the exciting February Game Design Showdown and on their other projects, but I'd be very grateful if I could get some advices, criticisms or help about my game.
I'm a newbie and I need to learn... tell me what you think about Insania Lupina.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:20

#16

Jackhalfaprayer

Offline

Joined: 09/29/2008

I’ve been meaning to get to

I’ve been meaning to get to this thread but there is just so much. Sorry it’s taken me this long.

Looks like you and I have been working on similar ideas. We’re both working on games with hidden movement!

I think that the game is very thematic and rich. The narrative and mythology practically oozes awesome. I think the game sounds very dramatic and exciting. At the same time, I fear the game might suffer from a bit of an identity crisis upon first read. Is it a war game? An RPG? A stealth game? If the answer is “all of the above” than I think you’re on the right track. That being said, I fear you might be taking a bit of the Kitchen Sink approach to design. There is just so much here!
This isn’t a bad thing, per say. It’s really a matter of what sort of game do you want to make. I think this game is going to end up being in the realm of Horus Heresy if the current design is any indicator. At which point you need to ask yourself, are you okay with that. If that is the kind of game you want to design than I say ROCK ON! Big heavy games are cool and the world needs more cool games. You are on the right track. I think that this game would play more like an old Avalon Hill war-game when all is said and done. I imagine the final game would play something like Dune. Which is awesome, because I love Dune. BUT, Dune is a game that takes hours, and really requires a lot of buy-in from the players. I only get to play Dune every couple of years.
Myself, I tend to try and design slightly smaller/lighter games. This is a matter of taste. Please take my advise with a pound and a half of salt. I’m going to try and give some more specific critiques now (because I too know what it is like to pour a lot of energy into massive posts and wait eagerly for valuable feedback).

Combat: I would, as a player, want something that was a little more engaging and tactical than rolling dice and adding/subtracting stats. I would like something that offered me more choices, opportunity to bluff, or manage a resource. This is totally a matter of taste. My guess is you wouldn’t have used this mechanic if you didn’t like it. It’s tried and true and it functions. Gamers are familiar with it. It also provides drama. Lots of people are fine with this. I, personally, think it’s antiquated.

Moon Phases, Weather, The Black Death: There are just so many factors here vying forth player’s attention. As the Humans I have to contend with a random enemy in the form of The Black Death which takes book-keeping, a human enemy as the werewolves, and random events that change the rules every turn. The moon phases are very thematic and exciting. They fit the werewolves theme well. I would drop weather entirely and increase the effect the moon has on the game. Take some of the weather effects and turn them into lunar phase effects. This makes for a sort of rhythm to the events that happen and removes one of the factors vying for player’s attention. Also it might be more interesting if the wolves were responsible for the Black Death. Lycanthropy is a disease, right? So what if the wolves were using the Black Death as a weapon? I’d remove some of their troop options and turn sickness into a sort of unit in the game that they control.

As the wolf players I would want more control over my most basic troops, the wolves.

Good, bad, and nuetral characters! It's so many. What if you took some of the neutrals and gave the coolest ones to each of the two sides, leaving the weaker ideas on the cutting room floor? That would make each of the sides cooler and remove one more component that demands attention.

I doubt you’ll like the feedback I have for you. I’m sorry. I wanted to give you the best I could. I know you’ve been waiting for someone to give you feedback for a long time and I wish I could give you something more helpful. These are the best, most honest, thoughts I can offer you.

Edited: more ideas

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 19:39

#17

le_renard

Offline

Joined: 10/08/2010

Thank you so much for taking

Thank you so much for taking time to read all this, think about it and express it so clearly...
To make it short, I'm not waiting for a "it's a perfect game, don't touch anything" comment at all...
I want to improve this game and its design.
I'm quite confident about the theme and my ability to give justice to it.
I also feel that some mechanics are nice and that some need to be improved...
So here are my comments....

Jackhalfaprayer wrote:

I think that the game is very thematic and rich. The narrative and mythology practically oozes awesome. I think the game sounds very dramatic and exciting. At the same time, I fear the game might suffer from a bit of an identity crisis upon first read. Is it a war game? An RPG? A stealth game? If the answer is “all of the above” than I think you’re on the right track.

All of the above ! Maybe just some influence of RPG, but it's definitely not an RPG... I wanted to put into this game what I like in other games.

Jackhalfaprayer wrote:

Big heavy games are cool and the world needs more cool games.

I wanted a big game, yes... but actually the game is faster than it seems and I know I can cut some things to make it better and faster. I don't want this game to be too time-consuming for the players... 1h30 is what I have in mind, and I think I'm not that far...

Jackhalfaprayer wrote:

Combat: I would, as a player, want something that was a little more engaging and tactical than rolling dice and adding/subtracting stats. I would like something that offered me more choices, opportunity to bluff, or manage a resource.

My combat mechanic is simple, I agree. It's probably an old system. I must confess that I don't have anything else in mind right now, because, let's face the truth, I like rolling dice and the dramatic tension it can bring ^^
I'm not closed to alternatives at all ! I'd be glad to try another direction... Any ideas ?

Jackhalfaprayer wrote:

Moon Phases, Weather, The Black Death: (...) The moon phases are very thematic and exciting. They fit the werewolves theme well. I would drop weather entirely and increase the effect the moon has on the game. Take some of the weather effects and turn them into lunar phase effects. (...) . So what if the wolves were using the Black Death as a weapon?

I can't but agree on some points !
The weather effects is something I wanted badly to integrate. After several playtests I must confess that it's more boring than "immersive"...
I came to the same conclusion : Keep the most interresting Climate Events and throw them into the Moon Cards deck, among the "Historical" cards.
I definitely must increase the effect the Moon has... Maybe reaching this phase triggers something etc...

Jackhalfaprayer wrote:

As the wolf players I would want more control over my most basic troops, the wolves.

In my mind, the Wolves are not really the basic troops... the lycanthropes are. It's like two packs trying to live together... they're related but not the same creatures... I tried to use them as basic troops, and I found it didn't work to me....

Jackhalfaprayer wrote:

What if you took some of the neutrals and gave the coolest ones to each of the two sides, leaving the weaker ideas on the cutting room floor?

These neutral characters are basically only personality cards... they're quite powerful and influence heavily a turn... The players will have to do their best to "win" this First Player bidding and gain the opportunity to use this ally they need to use right now.... whether for their own use, or just to block the other player.

Jackhalfaprayer wrote:

I doubt you’ll like the feedback I have for you. I’m sorry. I wanted to give you the best I could.

Don't be sorry ! This feedback is precious to me... and I don't only see the negative aspects... I can read some positive things in it too ! thanks a lot, once again....

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 19:43

#18

Jackhalfaprayer

Offline

Joined: 09/29/2008

I'm glad you aprecitaed the

I'm glad you aprecitaed the feed-back in the spirit it was given. I will try and give you some more specific suggestions tomorrow when I'm not cooked.

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 13:16

#19

Jackhalfaprayer

Offline

Joined: 09/29/2008

Alright. I want to help you

Alright. I want to help you refine your design. Instead of point out change I would make though, I want to ask you some questions.

Can you tell me in one sentece what your game is about?

Can you tell me in one sentece what your players do?

What is your game's core mechanic?

I want to expand on this last one a little. I tend to belive that every game has one mechanic at it's heart and center which makes it function. It is, usualy, the central act that players will do on their turn. It must be directly tied to what they are trying to achive. Chess, Warhammer 40K, and Risk all share the core mechanic of "spacial control." All of these games are about claiming space. Each turn players will attempt to take more space. This is why these game are so concerned with how pieces move and conflict with one annother.

I think this assumption of mine is totally up for grabs. I would love to discuss if this is a good apraoch, if it's true, or if it's valid. But not here. I someone wants to debate if this is the right way to aproach this lets set up a thread in design theory.

I'm looking forward to everyone's input here!

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 14:13

#20

le_renard

Offline

Joined: 10/08/2010

Thanks a lot for your help

Thanks a lot for your help !

The game is about conquering France by claiming cities or destroying all opponent's forces for the Werewolf Player or by protecting cities and forcing the Wrewolf Leader to reveal himseld and destroy him to eradicate the Insania Lupina

Core Mechanic : claiming cities give you some Support Points that you can use to hire some characters or equip them...

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 14:29

#21

Jackhalfaprayer

Offline

Joined: 09/29/2008

Quote: Core Mechanic :

Quote:

Core Mechanic : claiming cities give you some Support Points that you can use to hire some characters or equip them...

This is actually three separate mechanics. Claiming territory is one, gathering resource is one, creating units is one.

Which of these is the game's central focus? I would argue that Claiming Territory is the central mechanic and that creating units is subordinate to that, and that gathering resource is subordinate to that. So we start to build tiers of design priorities:

Core Mechanic:
Territory Control
/\
I
I
Supported by:
Army Management
/\
I
I
Supported by
Gathering Resource

So we start to build a the game's spine, its backbone. This is what keeps it from falling over. At the top is the head/brain. This drives the game. You can't play/win the game unless you control territory. You can't control territory unless you manage troops. You can't have an army unless you gather resource to pay/feed them.

So now we build the core. If the game is about territory control you need to have territory to control. You've already done this. The territory is a point-to-point map comprised of cites in medieval France.

Next we need to understand how we control territory. What signifies control of a city in the game?

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 14:41

#22

le_renard

Offline

Joined: 10/08/2010

Jackhalfaprayer wrote:Next we

Jackhalfaprayer wrote:

Next we need to understand how we control territory. What signifies control of a city in the game?

Controlling a city in the game is basically taking possession of it.

If the city is still a "free" city, a player who wants to claim this city has to enter in this area with units who have the ability to do that. A single Soldier with a Value of 3 will be able to claim cities of Population 2 or 3.
Once the city is "controlled", it brings some Support Points to its controller each turn
Once the city is "controlled", it changes the way it can used by the Werewolf Leader :
City free or controlled by the Werewolves : the Werewolf Leader can hide there
City controlled by the Humans : the Werewolf cannot hide there if he picks up this city card during his Secret Movement Phase, he must directly give a Trace Token to his opponent and draws another city card

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 16:13

#23

Jackhalfaprayer

Offline

Joined: 09/29/2008

So controlling a city is the

So controlling a city is the act of having one of your troops in that city? Does it matter if some of your opponent’s troops are there as well? Is control defined by anything more than have at least one of your troops in a city and none of your opponents? Can I capture a city and move out of it and have it still remain in my “control.”

So we have a map comprised of areas that both players want to control. We have units that move around that map, between the points. Their position in cities denotes control of those locations on the map.

Are there any places they can move that aren’t cites?

How do troops move?

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 17:06

#24

le_renard

Offline

Joined: 10/08/2010

Once tour troops have invaded

Once tour troops have invaded a city, a Possession Token is placed on this city... it acts like a flag, showing that now this city is under your influence.
A city is considered yours when no opponents are remaining in the city area.
This Possession Token, add a +1 bonus to the Resistance of this City against other invasions... the other player can send troops to invade this city later
Your troops are not forced to stay in the city itself during the next turns. The city remains yours even if all your troops left.
If your characters stay in the city, they act as additional bonus resistance, adding their cumulated Values to the total Resistance of the City. In our case the city would have its Population + Possession Token + cumulated Values of your characters staying in this city.

Troops can cross free cities without capturing them.( if their Value is not high enough for instance ). Troops cannot cross the other player's cities.

All characters can move everywhere else on the board/map except :

Humans can only travel by the city when the Sailor ( Neutral Ally who can be enrolled for a turn )
Werewolves and wolves cannot use the maritime ways
Wolves can move through a city area but cannot end their movement in a city.

Characters move by using their Action points, from one point to another. Each Character has an Action value. a Soldier with Action :3 can move up to 3 points distance on the board, or keep some Action points ( starting a fight costs 1 Action point, for instance )

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 16:28

#25

cottonwoodhead

Offline

Joined: 03/02/2011

I think the game looks great

I think the game looks great though I feel that it is a bit overloaded. I love the Father of Wolves Mechanic and the city control mechanic, I also think the moon mechanic ties in nicely with the theme and I think the allies allow for a greater variety of actions to be available to the player. However I do not like the plague mechanic or the climate mechanic. The reason I don't like these mechanics is for a few reasons. I think they're both somewhat complicated and don't have much to do with the core theme, a game about the black death would be interesting but throwing the black death into a werewolf game feels out of place and weather is just not very interesting out of a very logistics heavy game, which your game doesn't sound like. Also I feel that since the game is for two players there should be as much of a feeling of direct competition as possible and I think the plague even if well balanced will feel like it is giving the wolf player an unfair advantage and changing the focus from Righteous vs. Heretics to Righteous vs. the plague and some heretics.
I also have some questions. You mention that some of the Heretics can infect people, how does that work? It sounds very interesting and I think could be used to substitute at least partially for the plague mechanic. I also think that not having the wolves under direct control makes them more like a Neutral character and I was wondering if it might be a good idea to add a semi-neutral character like the wolves on the righteous side. I think each player having a group not under their direct control would be more interesting then the just the Heretics having the wolves.
I think it sounds like a great game and I like most of the core mechanics, I disagree with Jackhalfaprayer in that I think the combat doesn't need to be more complicated, I think making the combat more complicated would make the game heavier than it should be and would turn it more in the direction of a war game, which I don't think is what you were looking for based on your description.
By the way I'm also new, I only registared yesterday actually. I'm on exchange in Belgium right now so if you have any problems translating from French to English know that there is someone else out there having equal or greater problems translating from English to French. Good luck on the game I'll make sure to keep an eye on it.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 19:02

#26

le_renard

Offline

Joined: 10/08/2010

cottonwoodhead wrote:However

cottonwoodhead wrote:

However I do not like the plague mechanic or the climate mechanic. The reason I don't like these mechanics is for a few reasons. I think they're both somewhat complicated and don't have much to do with the core theme...

I can see what you mean... If I had to explain why I wanted to introduce this Plague system, I would say that somehow, the whole game is inspired by the human point of view.
Everything that they didn't understand at that time became a sign of god or satan...
That's why they burned thousands of so-called witches or werewolves.
The Plague was also perceived as a divine punishment, and when famine or death hit a village or a city, people pointed someone as being responsible for it...

Following that idea, I thought that the Insania Lupina ( a werewolf infection ) could be extended to the plague itself... like if they were responsible for it.

The Weather mechanic... I agree.. I think it's more boring and slowing down the game that anything. I intend to keep the most interresting Climate cards and throw them into the Moon Cards deck.

cottonwoodhead wrote:

Also I feel that since the game is for two players there should be as much of a feeling of direct competition as possible and I think the plague even if well balanced will feel like it is giving the wolf player an unfair advantage and changing the focus from Righteous vs. Heretics to Righteous vs. the plague and some heretics.

An interresting point of view again.
I think it's a question of ratio... I'll try to explain myself.
The number of Plague-triggering cards must remain pretty low in the Moon Cards deck. In fact, I thought of adding only 1 card per 20 Moon Cards. I also thought of using these cards to "balance" things in 3 players game variant. Let's say you want to play with a friend of yours against me playing the Werewolf clan... That would be 2 human players ( and brains ^^ ) against 1... In this case, I thought that I could add some Plague-triggering cards to the Moon Cards deck... to make it more difficult for the human players.

I also thought of including the Plague as an additional rule, to extend replayability.

cottonwoodhead wrote:

You mention that some of the Heretics can infect people, how does that work? It sounds very interesting and I think could be used to substitute at least partially for the plague mechanic.

Actually, it's a pretty simple mechanic.
Some Werewolves have a special ability called "Infection".
Instead of killing an opponent, they can choose to try to infect him.
The Werewolf is not sure to succeed.
He declares "I don't kill him, I want to infect him" and rolls a Curse / Blessing dice ( a custom dice used both by Heretics & Righteous when they need some help from above... or below ^^ ). If a Wolf symbol appears, the character is infected. His token and card are removed from the game and the Wolf player will benefit from a free Lycanthrope next turn.
If a Cross symbol appears, the roll is a failure and the human character is saved ( he only has 1 Health points though )

During the first playtests, I even tried to link that to the Moon phases.. the infected characters turning into werewolves when the Moon turns full... It was a nice idea, but actually not that interresting... ( you tend to sacrifice the infected characters )

cottonwoodhead wrote:

I think each player having a group not under their direct control would be more interesting then the just the Heretics having the wolves.

Actually, the Faithful have some ambivalent characters in the person of Peasants. They can be used as semi neutral characters since they need at one point to be converted into Cultivators, to produce food for the troops ( and then cannot move or fight anymore ).
The Werewolf player doesn't need to produce food... a great advantage for him....

cottonwoodhead wrote:

Good luck on the game I'll make sure to keep an eye on it.

Thanks a lot for your help and support !

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:08

#27

Jackhalfaprayer

Offline

Joined: 09/29/2008

So each unit has a certain

So each unit has a certain number of actions?

A quick thought is to limit the number of units a player can move on a turn somehow. you could do this arbitrarily (you can only move 5 units) or you could do this by linking unit activation to some sort of cost, most obviously, the support points you've talked about. Give different units different costs for activation (more powerful unit = greater cost) and allow them only to take an action when paid for.

Why do this? It forces the players to make choices. Choices are interesting.

The problem that arises out of this, especially if you start linking every mechanic in the game to support, is that the player with the most support will almost always win. Since the source of support in the game is map control, and since that is the same as winning this would almost certainly cause run-away-winner. You could develop some sort on alternate resource economy; but, that is what I would do. I love action point economies.

This idea is not complete, but use it for food for thought.

I love the idea of linking a support blind bid to a unit's hard-stat open value for combat. I think it is simple and unifies the mechanics. There is still a danger of run away winner, but that can be ironed out.

As for cottonwoodhead's thoughts, first let me say thanks for giving such exhaustive feedback Secondly, I totally admit that I am by no means an expert here. I'm stumbling around in the dark more than anyone and I hope you don't think I've overstepped my bounds. My counter argument is that I feel stat+dice roll feels more like a wargame TO ME because this system is used in lots of wargames. This system is not bad, it is simply not my cup of tea. I think the question should be posed to Le_renard:

Do you think of your game as a wargame? armies vying for control of a map, cities and resource, sieges and the like. These things scream WARGAME to me, but maybe I'm taking you in the wrong direction.

I don't want to help you make my game. The only thing I can offer you is my thoughts. If I'm taking you away from what you want the game to be, steer me back!

I agree with all of cottonwoodhead's other thoughts. I would either find a way to cut the plague entirely or more tightly interweave it with the other mechanics. Buy this is MY thought. How does that idea strike you? We're not the authority here. It's your game.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 06:46

#28

cottonwoodhead

Offline

Joined: 03/02/2011

Thanks a lot for answering my

Thanks a lot for answering my questions it really helped clarify the game for me. Another suggestion I have for the Plague mechanic is to make it into an alternate method of winning for the Heretic player. The suggestion would be that the plague is in somehow directly caused by the werewolves and the Faithful must work actively to counter the plague. The faithful already have the plague doctor to help them out but it would be interesting if the Heretic could cause the plague by fufilling certain conditions. The witch already has the curse ability so one way to do it would be that if a certain number of curse tokens are placed on a city that city then gets the plague which spreads outward from there. This means that the Faithful would have to use Plague Doctors and or Priests to keep the number of curse tokens down and use their military power to target witches to stop them from making too many curse tokens.
I didn't realize that the Peasants could only be converted into Cultivators and not back again, that fufills the ambivalent role for the Faithful quite well. You might want to make it so wolves target cultivators and try to decrease food production specifically, it would give them a special role and would make them more interesting.
I'm sorry if my first comment was so negative put I misunderstood several aspects of the game, thanks for giving me a clearer view.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 07:15

#29

le_renard

Offline

Joined: 10/08/2010

Jackhalfaprayer wrote:you

Jackhalfaprayer wrote:

you could do this by linking unit activation to some sort of cost, most obviously, the support points you've talked about. Give different units different costs for activation (more powerful unit = greater cost) and allow them only to take an action when paid for.

That's something I'm going to think about, but I'm a bit afraid of the "run-away-winner" thing you mentioned...

Jackhalfaprayer wrote:

Do you think of your game as a wargame?

I think it can be considered as a kind of wargame yes... it was not meant to be so to be honest, and I guess i want some wargame elements blended with other elements too...
If it was a miniature game, I guess it would be a skirmish game and not a larger scale battle game.
That's to say, the number of Characters the player has into play during a turn is not very high.

cottonwoodhead wrote:

The suggestion would be that the plague is in somehow directly caused by the werewolves and the Faithful must work actively to counter the plague.

That's something I was already toying with, so I think I will try to work on it...

cottonwoodhead wrote:

You might want to make it so wolves target cultivators and try to decrease food production specifically, it would give them a special role and would make them more interesting.

Nice idea too... the wolves may move toward the nearest Cultivator/peasant instead of moving toward the nearest character...

And, by the way, your ideas are great fodd for thoughts... I will not follow all advices, jsut to design a game that would please you ^^ / It's definitely my game but your advices and tips are really helping...

Thanks a lot for this fruitful discussion ! ( and don't stop !! ^^ )

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 17:34

#30

Jackhalfaprayer

Offline

Joined: 09/29/2008

I would say that wolves which

I would say that wolves which move around independently (if I read that right) and the plague which does the same (once again if I read that right) are both factors that should be folded into existing game mechanics that are driven by player choice. Choices are interesting.
I second the werewolves being behind the plague. I think it’s thematically interesting and offers interesting game design options.

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