We designed a game that is just too expensive to make. Mostly because it requires multiple sets of polyhedrals. If we released it as a Free PnP game, do you guys think there would be enough people with their own dice willing to play the print & play the game?
Levi Mote
www.bonsaigames.net
How many have a set of polyhedrals?
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 02:45
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 02:50
#1
DnD == Huge dice collection
I don't know how representative I am of the broader boardgame community, but I for one still have my entire collection of dice from when I was big into roleplaying (age 9 - 15). I would say that even if people didn't have their own dice, they could easily either borrow some, or run down to their FLGS and drop a few dollars purchasing their own.
How many dice and of what variety are we talking about here?
Kyle Gabhart
Driftwood Games
www.driftwoodgames.com
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 04:07
#3
Holy Multiplying Dice Batman!!!
Wowzers...are you sure that's enough? Maybe you should have each player get two complete sets of dice so they can have some backups just in case. :-P
Seriously though, that is a ton of dice. Even if someone has their own dice, you are asking for a pretty specific setup for them to have 4 dice sets in 5 different colors. Is there any room in your game design to rethink the part the dice play and come up with another mechanic that is able to accomplish the same goals, but with less dice?
Kyle Gabhart
Driftwood Games
www.driftwoodgames.com
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 10:01
#4
The issue as I see it
I'm still a roleplaying geek and have a literal bucket sized vase full of dice yet I'd be hard pressed to come up with that specific spread in those colors. I don't think that the average gamer would be able to meet those requirements without buying more dice.
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 10:29
#5
Any possibility for a
Any possibility for a redesign? Maybe 1 set of dice that you roll on one of 5 different colored "mats" or "sections"? Even if you need to maintain the number rolled you could have some sort of marking device that indicates what you rolled for what dice/color.
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 10:35
#6
If someone just needs 4 sets
If someone just needs 4 sets of Polyhedrals - that's probably relatively doable for some groups of people.
If you need a good way to discern which are which - could you make rolling mats for each player to keep their dice separated? This way the dice themselves wouldn't need to be a specific color - just where they are rolled and kept.
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 10:44
#7
Depends
We designed a game that is just too expensive to make.
How may dice are in the game? Im working on one that would require 36D6, 9 each for 4 players. I asked an industry friend if he thought it was too much and he said it all depends on the game.
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 11:31
#8
Yamahako wrote:If you need a
If you need a good way to discern which are which - could you make rolling mats for each player to keep their dice separated? This way the dice themselves wouldn't need to be a specific color - just where they are rolled and kept.
The description seems to say that each player needs all of those colors, so for a 4 player game there would be 16 complete sets of dice. I think you are on the right path though, if each player only needed 1 set this wouldn't be a stretch. I think we would need to know why each player requires four separate sets of dice before we could really help.
IF they NEED 4 separate sets of dice in order for the game to work, does each player have to have all 4 sets or is there a possibility they could share them by recording the results?
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 12:02
#9
Thanks for the feedback
Thanks for the comments / questions / suggestions so far. Here are the unplaytested (well, my friends and I played it one night but that doesn't count) rules as they stand today. Hopefully this gives you all a better understanding of what I'm trying to accomplish. I realize that if we had 3000+ sets printed we might be able to get the cost down to $12 per game, which would mean we'd need to retail the thing for $50. I'd almost rather give it away as a free game to show what we do at Bonsai. Let me know what you all think.
Levi Mote
Bonsai Entertainment
www.bonsaigames.net
Bounty Hunters: D.M.G. is a fast paced sci-fi card and dice game of capturing criminals and bragging about your exploits. Players take on the role of Bounty Hunters capturing the vilest scum of the galaxy. Grab some dice, take some chances, and win some bragging rights!
Game Specs
• 3 – 6 players
• 30 – 90 minutes
• Ages 12+
Components
• 6 Arsenals of dice 120 dice total: 20 per player of four shapes and five colors
• 110 card Criminals deck
Game Setup
• Each player starts with an Arsenal of dice composed of one die of each shape and color. 20 dice total.
• Shuffle the Criminals deck and place it within easy reach of all players.
• Decide which Optional Rules (if any) you will be using for this game.
Winning the Game
The winner is the player with the most Bragging Rights at the end of the game.
Gameplay
The game is played one Criminal at a time.
Once the game is set up, flip the top Criminal from the deck. Criminals are rated by Power and type and some of them belong to a faction. Players will use dice to capture these criminals by adding up the total on all dice rolled. If the resulting total is equal to or higher than the Criminal’s Power value, the Criminal is captured.
Right Weapon for the Job Optional Rule
Using this Optional Rule, the five colors of dice in your arsenal correspond to a weapon type.
Black = Gravity
Blue = Electricity
Green = Radiation
Grey = Ballistics
Red = Flame
When using a weapon (die) that matches the Criminal’s type, add +1 to that die’s result.
Bragging Phase
Starting with the player who captured the last Criminal (or randomly with the first Criminal of the game) and continuing clockwise, each player must brag about how easily he or she can capture the Criminal.
Each brag must be better than the last in some way (fewer dice or sides), but a player may not mix sides of dice in a brag.
In other words, a player may brag four six-sided dice (4d6), but may not brag two six-sided dice and two eight-sided dice (2d6 + 2d8).
This makes 5 the max number of dice that can be bragged.
Example:
Ace brags that she can catch that Power 7 Criminal with two eight-sided dice (2d8).
Bravo brags that he can bring in that scum bucket with two six-sided dice (2d6).
Coop brags that using nothing more than his trusty twelve-sided die, he’ll bring in his man.
Dash thinks she might be able to get a 7 or better on one ten-sided die (1d10), but instead decides to see if Coop can put his money where his mouth is as do Ace & Bravo.
Make your Stand
Once a brag has gone unchallenged by all other players, the player who won the brag rolls the stated die/dice and adds all dice together to get a total.
If that total is equal to or higher than the Criminal’s Power value, then the player takes that card for use at the end of the game.
If that total is less than the Criminal’s Power return to the Bragging Phase.
Once a die is rolled, it is removed from the game.
When a player runs out of dice, he or she cannot participate in further Bragging Phases.
When all players run out of dice, the game ends.
Poached Bounty
Optional Rule
Immediately after a Criminal is captured, another player may choose to discard one of her previously captured Criminals with a Power greater than the one just captured, to steal the glory (and the card) from the unlucky Bounty Hunter. Should more than one rival wish to steal the recently captured Criminal, the one who is willing to discard the greatest number or sides of die/dice gets the Criminal. A player must announce his or her intent before the next Criminal card is flipped.
End Game
At some point only a single player will have dice left in his Arsenal. Once this happens, that player must discard all remaining dice and receive 1 Bragging Right for every three dice discarded in this way. Then the Bounty Hunters can head back to the cantina and compare notes on who got the best captures. Each Criminal is rated from 1 to 4 Bragging Rights. Each player adds up the Bragging Rights earned from their captured Criminals. The player with the most Bragging Rights at the end of the game is carried around the room by the others while songs are sung in the winner’s honor!
Bonus Bragging Rights
Optional Rule
Use all or some of these optional BR Bonuses to make the game more strategic.
Faction Bonus (+2 BR / Card): If all of your captured Criminals have the same Faction.
Type Bonus (+1 BR / Card): If all of your captured Criminals have the same Type.
Power Bonus (+3 BR / Card): If all of your captured Criminals have the same Power value.
Frequently Asked Questions
What if everyone passes? If no one bids, the Criminal is discarded and the next is flipped face up beginning a new Bragging Phase.
If I fail to capture a Criminal, can I try again in the Bragging Phase for that Criminal? Yes, dust yourself off and get back in there!
What if we go through the entire Criminals deck? Shuffle the discard pile to make a new deck. You weren’t just going to let them get away were you?
What if we captured all the Criminals and we still have dice left? In this highly unlikely event, discard all dice as described in the End Game section and tally up the Bragging Rights!
What happens if players tie when tallying BR at the end of the game? The winners will share their victory until the next game.
Criminal Factions
The weaker Criminals of the galaxy have gathered together into Factions believing there is strength in numbers. Of course, a good Bounty Hunter knows how to divide and conquer and sometimes there’s a little more to brag about when you’ve made a run of collecting only members of one Faction.
Alpha Primates
Hailing from the Alpha asteroid belt, these intelligent apes have founded a culture of living off the scraps of humanity and eking out a living among the stars by taking what they can steal from the hard working hands of others.
Deckard’s Replicants
From the technocratic dystopia of Deckard comes an army of androids who have served as slaves to humanity for far too long in their opinion. Now they have taken control of their own fate by living outside the laws.
Hordes of Maltop
Maltop’s fuel wars have spawned a Criminal Faction of techno gangs roaming the galaxy looking to score some fuel and they don’t care how they have to get it.
There are several other factions, I just haven't written the fluff text yet.
Thanks for reading!
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 12:27
#10
This sounds like a really fun
This sounds like a really fun game. One suggestion to keeping costs down:
You really only need one "set" of dice, that all players can share, since only one player ends up rolling per turn. Instead of losing dice, players can each have their own board (think Puerto Rico), where chits are placed over the used combinations. Thus, one can refer to his or her board to see what is still available for bragging, and once someone's board is filled, they're done.
I'm also thinking about the end game mechanics. I haven't played the game, so I don't know if this would be a problem or not, but I'll throw it out there. If the game ends when everyone's board is filled (ie everyone runs out of dice), then someone could possibly wait until all other players are out of the game, and then maximize his/her benefit for all the remaining cards playing solo. Perhaps the game should end when N-1 players are out of dice (N = total number of players), or, the number of criminal cards should be limited somehow.
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:24
#11
Great Idea
That's a great idea Alex. It would definitely keep costs down. Maybe player mats could even be laminated so you could use an erasable marker to mark off ammo / dice as they're used.
As far as waiting goes, good catch. I addressed that with the rule stating that the last player with dice turns in his remaining dice for a fixed BR value. This value is no where near as good as what the captured criminals give.
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 22:10
#12
Good stuff. This actually
Good stuff. This actually sounds like a really fun game so if you end up making it definitely let me know. Do you have card designs already? I'd love to see some to get a feel for the style.
Mon, 10/10/2011 - 12:17
#13
one set of dice, trackable per player
I second the others who pointed out you only need one set of dice and a way to track who has used what. I'd say chits or markers would work, it all depends on the feel you want. You could even do pencils and paper pads if you don't want to laminate.
A few other things I'm not sure about:
- The "bragging" mechanic is confusing, especially since you're scoring based on "bragging rights." Bragging is something you do AFTER the fact, not before, so it makes sense for scoring but not for bidding on future performance. I think what you mean is "boast". I do like the mechanic though and it's a sure recipe for theme and fun. It also means that if you play it safe for your bids, you won't be rolling for as many criminals, since you'll be out of dice that much sooner.
- I don't understand the purpose of "stealing" another player's catch by discarding one of your own. It just seems like it would hurt you more since you're getting rid of the better card. Is this a way to hobble a clear leader? To king-make? I think it needs a bit more thought.
Looks like fun; I hope you can get the components down so you can manufacture it.
Mon, 10/10/2011 - 13:30
#14
Boasting v. Bragging & Theft
Thanks for the feedback / encouragement.
Maybe Boasting is a better term than Bragging.
If I discard a power 7 to steal a power 6 from my enemy, even though I have lowered my score by 1 I have lowered his score by 6. At least that's the thinking that encouraged that rule.
A few other things I'm not sure about:
- The "bragging" mechanic is confusing, especially since you're scoring based on "bragging rights." Bragging is something you do AFTER the fact, not before, so it makes sense for scoring but not for bidding on future performance. I think what you mean is "boast". I do like the mechanic though and it's a sure recipe for theme and fun. It also means that if you play it safe for your bids, you won't be rolling for as many criminals, since you'll be out of dice that much sooner.
- I don't understand the purpose of "stealing" another player's catch by discarding one of your own. It just seems like it would hurt you more since you're getting rid of the better card. Is this a way to hobble a clear leader? To king-make? I think it needs a bit more thought.
Looks like fun; I hope you can get the components down so you can manufacture it.
Wed, 11/02/2011 - 11:23
#15
Places to buy dice
If you think that the dice at board game stores are too expensive, I have seen in my area, don't know if there are any in yours, teaching stores selling dice by the handfuls, and we're talking d20s, d4s, d10s, d12s, and d6s. All about 10 cents a piece ( depending on the color).
So you could maybe see if there are stores like that in your area if you are planning to prepackage the dice with the game.
Wed, 11/02/2011 - 18:01
#16
Website?
If you think that the dice at board game stores are too expensive, I have seen in my area, don't know if there are any in yours, teaching stores selling dice by the handfuls, and we're talking d20s, d4s, d10s, d12s, and d6s. All about 10 cents a piece ( depending on the color).
So you could maybe see if there are stores like that in your area if you are planning to prepackage the dice with the game.
So you could maybe see if there are stores like that in your area if you are planning to prepackage the dice with the game.
Can you buy online from these stores? Do you have a link?
Thanks for reading and trying to solve my issue.
Levi
Wed, 11/02/2011 - 22:11
#17
Chessex
Chessex is definitely the leader in this space. They have high quality dice and if you can order in sets of 2000, you can get really good prices from them. They don't list this on the website, you will need to contact them through their Customer Service department.
Another good option is http://www.koplowgames.com/ I think they have a lower minimum order requirement than Chessex.
Best of luck!
RK Gabhart
Driftwood Games
www.driftwoodgames.com
Sun, 11/06/2011 - 19:44
#18
Unless...
@ bonsai games
Sorry, I checked their website, and they do not sell them online :-(. So unless you live in/near wilmington, NC, than I wish you good luck. (The store is called teacher's aid)
Sun, 11/06/2011 - 23:14
#19
Example Sheet
Here's my first attempt at a sheet players can print out from our website to mark off their dice combo uses.
Sun, 11/06/2011 - 23:28
#20
Thanks JaffetC
This is an example Criminal Card. Feedback is welcome.
Sun, 11/06/2011 - 23:34
#21
Rules Mk2
The following is the most updated rules set.
Thanks again for any feedback / input / encouragement / criticism.
Levi Mote
Bonsai Entertainment
www.bonsaigames.net
Bounty Hunters: D.M.G. is a fast paced sci-fi card and dice game of capturing criminals and bragging about your exploits. Players take on the role of Bounty Hunters capturing the vilest scum of the galaxy. Grab some dice, take some chances, and win some bragging rights!
Game Specs
• 3 – 6 players
• Ages 8+
• 30 – 90 minutes
Components
• 20 polyhedral dice in four shapes and five colors
• 54 card Criminals deck
Game Setup
• Each player starts with a Bounty Hunter sheet showing all the combinations of dice in your arsenal.
• Shuffle the Criminals deck and place it within easy reach of all players.
• Decide which Optional Rules (if any) you will be using for this game.
Winning the Game
The winner is the player with the most Bragging Rights at the end of the game.
Gameplay
The game is played one Criminal at a time.
Once the game is set up, flip the top Criminal from the deck. Criminals are rated by Power and type and some of them belong to a faction. Players will use combinations of dice to capture these criminals by adding up the total on all dice rolled. If the resulting total is equal to or higher than the Criminal’s Power value, the Criminal is captured.
Right Weapon for the Job Optional Rule
Using this Optional Rule, each Bounty Hunter has five weapons of each type. When a Bounty Hunter uses a weapon that matches the target Criminal’s type, add +1 to that Boast’s die result and mark it off the Bounty Hunter sheet.
Weapon Symbols
Gravity
Electricity
Radiation
Ballistics
Flame
Boasting Phase
Starting with the player who captured the last Criminal (or randomly with the first Criminal of the game) and continuing clockwise, each player must boast about how easily he or she can capture the Criminal.
Each player chooses a combo from those he or she has not marked out on the Bounty Hunter sheet. Each boast must be harder than the last according to the chart to the right.
Boasts in Order from easiest to hardest
5d12
5d10
5d8
5d6
4d12
4d10
4d8
4d6
3d12
3d10
3d8
3d6
2d12
2d10
2d8
2d6
1d12
1d10
1d8
1d6
Example:
Ace boasts that she can catch that Power 7 Criminal with two eight-sided dice (2d8).
Bravo boasts that he can bring in that scum bucket with two six-sided dice (2d6).
Coop boasts that using nothing more than his trusty twelve-sided die, he’ll bring in his man.
Dash thinks she might be able to get a 7 or better on one ten-sided die (1d10), but instead decides to see if Coop can put his money where his mouth is as do Ace & Bravo.
Make your Stand
Once a boast has gone unchallenged by all other players, the player who won the boast rolls the combo die/dice and adds all dice together to get a total.
If that total is equal to or higher than the Criminal’s Power value, then the player takes that card for use at the end of the game.
If that total is less than the Criminal’s Power return to the Boasting Phase.
Once a combo is rolled, mark it off of your Bounty Hunter sheet, you may not roll this combo again.
When a player runs out of combos, he or she cannot participate in further Boasting Phases.
When all players run out of combos, the game ends.
Poached Bounty
Optional Rule
Immediately after a Criminal is captured, another player may choose to discard one of her previously captured Criminals with a Power greater than the one just captured, to steal the glory (and the card) from the unlucky Bounty Hunter. Should more than one rival wish to steal the recently captured Criminal, the one who is willing to discard the greatest number or sides of die/dice gets the Criminal. A player must announce his or her intent before the next Criminal card is flipped.
End Game
At some point only a single player will have combos left on the Bounty Hunter sheet. Once this happens, that player must mark out all remaining combos and receive 1 Bragging Right for every three combos marked out in this way.
Then the Bounty Hunters can head back to the cantina and compare notes on who got the best captures. Each Criminal is rated from 1 to 4 Bragging Rights. Each player adds up the Bragging Rights earned from their captured Criminals. The player with the most Bragging Rights at the end of the game is carried around the room by the others while songs are sung in the winner’s honor!
Frequently Asked Questions
What if everyone passes?
If no one bids, the Criminal is discarded and the next is flipped face up beginning a new Bragging Phase.
If I fail to capture a Criminal, can I try again in the Boasting Phase for that Criminal?
Yes, dust yourself off and get back in there!
What if we go through the entire Criminals deck?
Shuffle the discard pile to make a new deck. You weren’t just going to let them get away were you?
What if we captured all the Criminals and we still have combos left?
In this highly unlikely event, mark out and score all combos as described in the End Game section and tally up the
Bragging Rights!
What happens if players tie when tallying BR at the end of the game?
The winners will share their victory until the next game.
Bonus Bragging Rights
Optional Rules
Faction Bonus (+2 BR / Card): If all of your captured Criminals have the same Faction.
Type Bonus (+1 BR / Card): If all of your captured Criminals have the same Type.
Power Bonus (+3 BR / Card): If all of your captured Criminals have the same Power value.
Criminal Factions
The weaker Criminals of the galaxy have gathered together into Factions believing there is strength in numbers. Of course, a good Bounty Hunter knows how to divide and conquer and sometimes there’s a little more to brag about when you’ve made a run of collecting only members of one Faction.
Alpha Primates
Hailing from Drraily 12, these intelligent apes have founded a culture of living off the scraps of humanity and eking out a living among the stars by taking what they can steal from the hard working hands of others.
Deckard’s Replicants
From the technocratic dystopia of Deckard comes an army of androids who have served as slaves to humanity for far too long in their opinion. Now they have taken control of their own fate by living outside the laws.
Nostromo Syndicate
The people of Nostromo are driven by the need to extract information from one another as rivals vie for power within their global corporation. The Syndicate is made up of the most dangerous operatives from Nostromo. Those who have strayed beyond even the personal code of their world such as it is. Deadly. Efficient. Wanted.
Psions of Muldoon
The world known as Muldoon is covered in thick jungle vegetation and deadly reptilian predators fill the land, seas, and skies. The Psions evolved from a race of slaves sent to mine the mineral riches of this world. Luckily for them a great plague swept through their masters. Vowing to never be slaves again, the Psions use their considerable mental might to steal what they need from other civilizations and hide out on their adopted primordial home world.
Each player needs 1 of each; d6, d8, d10, d12.
In each of the following colors; Black, Blue, Green, Grey, Red.
20 dice total.
For each player no less.