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Need Suggestions for Heroquest-like Game

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GamesOnTheBrain
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I am designing a game similiar to Heroquest, where up to 4 or 5 heroes will go on dungeon quests. My goal is to capture the simplicity of a game like Memoir '44 in a fantasy adventuring setting.

I hope to one day distribute the game for free over the internet.

I need some suggestions.

One thing I'd like to do is use a modular board. Rather than use difference size pieces for different size rooms, however, I'd like the pieces to all be the same size - a rectangle with a 2 to 1 ratio in size. For example, each board might be 8 squares by 4 squares, with one ore two rooms on it, along with a passageway. The boards would then be placed next to each other according to the layout plan as the adventurers make there way through the dungeon.

My goal is to make the dungeon very easy to set up, tear down, and set up again. In addition, by producing more boards, players will be able to create a virtually limitless number of dungeon layouts.

Where I'm indecisive is the size of the board. Since I hope to distribute the game for free via the internet, I need to make the boards easy to print.

If I use 8 square x 4 square boards, with 7/8" squares, I could fit 2 boards on one 8.5" x 11" piece of paper (since each board would be 7" by 3.5").

But don't most miniatures require larger squares, like 1" or 1.25" ? I want players to have the option of replacing the tokens with minis if they want. I don't own any minis other than the ones that came with a few games I own, so I don't know what the norm is.

If I go with bigger squares, then I'll likely have to limit it to one board per piece of paper.

If I do go with one board per piece of paper, should I increase the number of squares too, to 10 x 5 for example?

Would larger rooms result in less variety in dungeon layout?

In summary, my questions are:

1) What do you think of my idea?

2) Would you prefer 7/8", 1", 1 1/8", or 1 1/4" squares? (or larger?)

3) Would you prefer 8x4 boards or 10x5 boards? (or some other size?)

Anonymous
Need Suggestions for Heroquest-like Game

To start with, look at Runebound, and learn from all its mistakes.

jwarrend
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Need Suggestions for Heroquest-like Game

It sounds like you have a fine idea for a game. Many folks here seem to be working on "RPG boardgames", so you're definitely in good company.

How far along are you in the project? If you've designed the game and are into the playtesting stage, I think your concerns are perhaps worth worrying about, but if you haven't finished the design aspect yet, might I suggest that worrying about the size of the squares is unnecessary at this stage? Just design a great game, and you can figure out how to actually make the thing in a pleasing way once you have a good game for which you need to worry about pleasing people in the first place. Just my thoughts...

Good luck with your project!

-Jeff

GamesOnTheBrain
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Need Suggestions for Heroquest-like Game

jwarrend wrote:
...if you haven't finished the design aspect yet, might I suggest that worrying about the size of the squares is unnecessary at this stage?

The problem is that the number of squares on a board (8x4,10x5,6x3,etc.) will play a large part in the design of the game itself.

It will impact movement, range for missile attacks, and even what dice I use.

That's why I want to settle on a board size prior to going further in the design.

Anonymous
Need Suggestions for Heroquest-like Game

It sounds like you are on your way to a cool game! I would suggest sticking to 1" squares since that is what I understand to be an RPG norm (that's what I gather from the hard-core gamers that I game with). The scale is up to you, either 1"=5' or 1"=10' have been used (often in the same night of gaming) depending on the detail of the situation. Whichever works for you.

Since you're looking to distribute it for free over the internet (as a print and play game I presume), you can just have 1 tile per letter sized piece of paper. People will just have to print more (paper is reasonably cheap). If you ever did decide to have it produced, it would probably go into a box that isn't letter sized, so the size for that condsideration is relatively moot (the publishers will probably change your scale anyways).

That's my input. Are you leaning towards the board gaming (linear) aspect or the RPG/story (non-linear) aspect? I would be very curious considering the thread of late regarding narrative games and also the work I am doing currently on a horror narrative board game.

GamesOnTheBrain
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Need Suggestions for Heroquest-like Game

Thanks for the input. I appreciate it.

SiskNY wrote:
Are you leaning towards the board gaming (linear) aspect or the RPG/story (non-linear) aspect?

I am definitely leaning towards the board gaming aspect of it.

I want a rules-light adventure boardgame that can be played in 45 minutes to an hour.

Like RPG's, however, heroes would develop over time, thus allowing them to play more challenging scenarios.

Anonymous
Need Suggestions for Heroquest-like Game

GamesOnTheBrain wrote:
I want a rules-light adventure boardgame that can be played in 45 minutes to an hour.

Sounds like a great alternative to (the often never ending) Talisman!

Quote:
Like RPG's, however, heroes would develop over time, thus allowing them to play more challenging scenarios.

I had a similar thought for the game I'm developing, players abilities would grow as they use them more. Players would save their characters for long term games (reuse in the same game at higher levels or in different games based on the same game system). Very interesting idea! Best of luck to you!

phpbbadmin
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My thoughts

One of my main concerns about modular tile based RPG Board Games is that the board seems very hodgepodge. And by that I mean you might have a troll lair right next to a fairy forest (extreme example, but you get my meaning). If you were to use larger sheets, you could combine several 'rooms' together, so that each area could have a mini theme. I.E. you could group similar monsters (or have several rooms with the same type of monster). Or you could have something like a bunch of goblins guarding a room where a wealthy Orc lived.

Just my thoughts... Modular doesn't have to be chaotic...

-Darke

Anonymous
Need Suggestions for Heroquest-like Game

Use moduar boards. Small rooms you can connect to each other, ala warhammer quest/ Advanced HeroQuest.

GamesOnTheBrain
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Re: My thoughts

Darkehorse wrote:
...If you were to use larger sheets, you could combine several 'rooms' together, so that each area could have a mini theme... Modular doesn't have to be chaotic...

Those are my thoughts exactly...

...Using equal-sized tiles with 1-3 rooms and maybe a passageway on each one. The theme would be very tight, since I plan to stay exclusively with dungeon crawling for now.

The concept of equal-sized tiles is very important to me, since I believe it will lend itself tremendously to fast set-up and tear-down.

Zzzzz
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Need Suggestions for Heroquest-like Game

Since I agree with Darkehorse about tile based RPG games being very hodgepodge,

I would consider making the modular boards theme based. Think about it like a standard adventure module. Come up with a way to create multiple module board scenarios and keep that set of boards within the same theme. Maybe build in a means to connect these multiple board scenarios.

If nothing else the theme based modular boards might help keep the adventure consistant.

As for the board squares, a few years ago at GenCON I meet another exhibitor that created something called "The Dungeon Deck"(not sure if that they are around anymore, since WOTC had a little talk with them about the idea). A random set of cards which when laid down would create a dungeon. The idea seemed to work out ok. Though it was difficult to keep the content of what/who/where vary consistant. We tried it during one of my companies RPG sessions that we held that year at GenCON and it seem to work out ok. The randomness was still a little "hodgepodge", but it was fun.

GamesOnTheBrain
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Need Suggestions for Heroquest-like Game

Zzzzz wrote:
I would consider making the modular boards theme based. Think about it like a standard adventure module. Come up with a way to create multiple module board scenarios and keep that set of boards within the same theme. Maybe build in a means to connect these multiple board scenarios.

Yes. Exactly. The whole set of boards will be in the same theme. There will be no problems with hodgepodge. :)

Please look at this Heroquest Gameboard.

Now imagine splitting up that game board into, for example, 8 equal size mini-boards of 10 squares by 5 squares each.

Each miniboard could be positioned differently and turned in 4 different directions. By placing them together in different ways, you could come up with a virtually limiteless number of unique dungeons. Each scenario would use, say, 3 to 6 miniboards placed next to each other.

Heck, players could even collect the mini-gameboards.

GeminiWeb
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gameboards

Another option would be hexes, each of which contained paths of squares and/or rooms.

For example, in Avalon Hills Magic Realm, you have a series of hexes. Each hex has 5-6 clearings, joined by paths to each other and/or other tiles.

You could also have some sort of mechanism for what sort of tiles can be placed next to what sort of tiles ... for example Type B tiles could only be placed next to Type A or Type C tiles ...

GamesOnTheBrain
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Need Suggestions for Heroquest-like Game

At this point, I think I want to go with rectangle boards with 10 x 5 grids.

5 spaces wide will allow me to have passageways that are 2 spaces wide next to rooms that are 3 spaces wide, or a 1 space wide tunnel next to a 4 space wide room. An 8 x 4 grid would more greatly limit my options.

The only problem I foresee with a 10x5 grid is that if I go with the standard 1" squares, I will only have 1/2" margins on an 8.5" x 11" page.

Unfortunately, many personal printers cannot handle 1/2" margins. As a result, I may have to go with 15/16" hexes. This is important since I may distribute the game freely over the internet.

OldScratch
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Need Suggestions for Heroquest-like Game

This is interesting as I'm also making a download-and-play dungeon crawler game, though mine won't be free (It's a simple dungeon crawler, but really the game is enormous if you want it to be).

Anyways, my game uses 8x8 inch game boards, a total of 10. I never thought about using rectangular boards, though it's a cool idea. Something different (I did split them up to 4x8 to fit them on 8x11 paper). The square boards seem to work very well, as you can flip them around any way you want to make a huge variation of dungeons. It would work in pretty much the same way for your game.

I would definitely stick with at least 1inch squares. The reason I say at least is because most miniatures come with slot bases that are one inch, but people also like to use MageKnight figures, cause they're cheap, and their bases are larger than 1 inch, especially the "Hero" figures they have.

However, having 2:1 ratio boards seems awkward to me. I'm not sure if you've already gotten to the stage of planning out the boards, but I'm not sure how many different room combinations you can make with 8x4. I had problems coming up with good, useful boards in 8x8. Some of the first ones just came out too plain or just plain dumb, and I still may change a few of them. 5x10 would definitely be better than 4x8, but still seems limited to me since I've already designed some 8x8s.

To answer your questions, larger rooms don't result in less variety. My game uses 10 8x8 boards, (usually only 2 to 4 are used in one game), and there's never really a lack of difference between one game and another. However, my game uses door tiles that can be placed anywhere, so a single tile would be different from game to game. Will your boards have doors already in place, printed on the boards, or will they also be tiles? If they're already there, then how will you connect two tiles? Designated spaces on the boards that will lead to other boards?

Do I like your idea? Absolutely. I think the dungeon crawler genre is great, and needs more support nowadays, since there's only like one out there (the D&D one), and it's not even available in the US! Dungeon crawlers are great for fantasy gamers cause they don't require all the rules knowledge and record keeping as RPGs, but they're also not Chutes and Ladders.

I would prefer 1" squares. I don't use MageKnight figures, and most other figures have 1" bases or smaller. I used Reaper as my main source for Hero figures ( www.reapermini.com ), and their figures either have 1 inch slotted bases, or sculpted-on bases that are smaller than 1 inch.

As far as board size, based off of experience and your two choices, I'd go for the 5x10. However, you could try other sizes, like 5x8, which would be more "square". Hell you could even try 6x9, since any printer can print those dimensions, and that'll give you enough width to make more interesting rooms. I, personally, would prefer seeing square boards, but the willingness of players printing out one board in two pieces then taping them or gluing them together can put some off.

If you're judging the size of your boards by the HeroQuest board, I'm pretty sure the board is in a grid that's smaller than 1 inch.

Anyways, keep on keepin' on with this game. I'd like to check it out when you have it ready for playtesting or when it's done and whatnot.

GamesOnTheBrain
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Need Suggestions for Heroquest-like Game

Thank you VERY much for your post. It was by far the most helpful reply I've received on this topic.

Quote:
However, having 2:1 ratio boards seems awkward to me ... As far as board size, based off of experience and your two choices, I'd go for the 5x10.

There are a couple of reasons for the 2:1 ratio in board design:

1) They allow you to create long narrow dungeons very easily.

2) The "2" sides match up perfectly with other "2" sides, and the "1" sides match up perfectly with the other "1" sides.... AND... two "1" sides can match up perfectly with one "2" side.

In addition, they can also be staggered like bricks.

Without the 2:1 ratio, you lose some of these possibilities.

3) I've found that rectangular boards don't slide on the table as much as square ones, especially if they are in brick-like patterns.

Quote:
Will your boards have doors already in place, printed on the boards, or will they also be tiles?

The doors will be on tiles.

Quote:
Do I like your idea? Absolutely. I think the dungeon crawler genre is great, and needs more support nowadays, since there's only like one out there (the D&D one), and it's not even available in the US! Dungeon crawlers are great for fantasy gamers cause they don't require all the rules knowledge and record keeping as RPGs, but they're also not Chutes and Ladders.

I agree wholeheartedly. That's why I wanted to make this game!

Quote:
I would prefer 1" squares.

I would too, but what do you think of my problem:

With 1" squares, my boards will be 5" x 10". On an 8.5" x 11" page, there would only be 1/2" margins on the top and bottom. Many personal printers can't handle 1/2" margins. (Remember, I may distribute this for free online, so I want people to be able to print them very easily.)

Would 15/16" squares be that bad? It would make each of the top margins 5/16" bigger. From my experience, most personal printers *can* handle 3/4" margins. My top margins would then be slightly bigger than 3/4" inches, thus solving the problem with printing.

phpbbadmin
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Need Suggestions for Heroquest-like Game

GamesOnTheBrain wrote:

With 1" squares, my boards will be 5" x 10". On an 8.5" x 11" page, there would only be 1/2" margins on the top and bottom. Many personal printers can't handle 1/2" margins. (Remember, I may distribute this for free online, so I want people to be able to print them very easily.)

Hmmm I've found that most printers CAN handle 1/2" vertical margins. In actuality, I've never found one that couldn't. Anything less (like 1/4"), and things can get iffy. Has anyone else had problems with 1/2" vertical margins? I assumed 1/2" was universally acceptable.

-Darke

OldScratch
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Need Suggestions for Heroquest-like Game

GamesOnTheBrain wrote:
Would 15/16" squares be that bad? It would make each of the top margins 5/16" bigger. From my experience, most personal printers *can* handle 3/4" margins. My top margins would then be slightly bigger than 3/4" inches, thus solving the problem with printing.

This really depends. How 'crowded' is the dungeon to be during gameplay? You said that there's to be like 4 or 5 Heroes in the dungeon. Are they encouraged to work together or split up? Cramming 5 Heroes and 6 or 8 monsters in one space with less than 1" squares is asking for trouble. We experienced this usings slot-based figures on the HeroQuest board. Though you could still tell what's going on, it gets a bit iffy.

However, you also have the choice of making separate board files, one with smaller squares, one with 1 inch squares, and one with bigger squares, for those who like to use MageKnight figures. Even if you decide to sell the game, the graphics could be a separate download. For most people that play the game, I'll assume they'll be okay with just using the included characters (standups or tokens?), so they can just print out the smaller grid boards. For the gamers that really want to use their figures, they can download larger grid boards that could be split into two pieces, and they'll have to put them together themselves. Most people who have their own figures, I'd assume they have some ability in putting the pieces together, and are more likely to want to assemble something than your average gamer.

Just a few things to consider.

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