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Themes

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Thu, 08/23/2018 - 02:39
Mensian
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I'm a new game designer and my goal is to publish my games on Kickstarter. I learned a lot from you and one of the advices was that my first Kickstarter project should be a low budget game.
So, I designed a simple family game with FARM theme. Players feed and clean animals on the farm.
You can read the brief rules on the link below:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1s224SjdYhpx34WX-0fJt8ApzzIjGpMJY
Is this theme good for Kickstarter?
Or should I use another theme, like
Zoo> players can watch feeding and show of animals.
Space> players buy and sell goods to various worlds.
Historical> ??? Fantasy> ??? I don't have any good ideas. I need two kinds of actions on the same target (willage, monster, quest) that don't depend on each other. Any ideas?

What is your opinion, which theme would attract the most players to this project?

Comments on my game rules are also welcome. :)

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Thu, 08/23/2018 - 07:53
#1
Fertessa
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On Kickstarter, your art is

On Kickstarter, your art is what's going to attract people who have never seen your game- not necessarily your theme. At conventions or wherever you playtest, your gameplay is what will be important, again, not your theme. If your theme is interchangeable, it will have a hard time standing out from other KS games.

I think farming works fine for a family game, but your mechanics should tie into the theme, to make your game more unique. I recommend against going for the most popular theme. That theme will have been overdone by the time you got your game to a polished state, and theme itself doesn't draw people to your game unless it's really unique.

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Thu, 08/23/2018 - 12:40
#2
Jay103
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Yeah, "theme" is not the

Yeah, "theme" is not the major issue for a Kickstarter. Looking polished and professional is important (which largely boils down to art and design).

Knowing your AUDIENCE is important. The choice of theme does impact that.

Okay, so that said, I looked at your rules, and the theme is very weak.. which I guess is why you're suggesting it's changeable. I mean, you have animals of different "colors", and you just get VP for cleaning or feeding them them. A cow is purple, sure.

I can't see any of the "quests" (which is not a term that fits your farm theme.. "chores" maybe), nor the board, so I can't comment with too much detail, but the feed/clean thing sounds like a game for ages 3+, if it didn't also have the +/- 1 token mechanic.

So the first question is: Who is your intended audience?

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Thu, 08/23/2018 - 13:18
#3
Mensian
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audience

Jay103 wrote:

So the first question is: Who is your intended audience?

This game was born in a bord game camp for children a couple of years ago, by my doughter (she was 8) and her "teammate designers". Later, it was refined with +1/-1 tokens and grouping animals (Orange= pets: cat, dog, rabbit and hamster, Purple = BIG animals: horse, cow, sheep and pig, cyan = birds: chick, duck, turkey and dove), adding final quests, such as "Feed and clean an animal = 3 VP", "Be the first who has a token on all animals in a group = 4 Vp", and so on.
It was fun to play, but landing on an "empty" (non colored) field was a big drawback, so the "individual quests" were implemented (like: "as your second move you may land on any PURPLE field", or "when you next time feed or clean a PURPLE animal, double your VP gain" etc.), each "quest" in all 3 colors. The game was played with children of age 9-13 and they enjoyed it a lot. The +1/-1 tokens went to "anywhere", mostly randomly and simultaneously (Who cares?!...), but the joy of draw a quest and put a token somewhere was high.

So, I think that my audience is children of age 8-14 (but even a 6-years old child can enjoy the game with a little help), parents who are willing to play with their children, and parents who think "I will buy it for her for Christmas, it's so colorful with lovely pictures of farm animals".

p.s. I will soon upload a pnp version of the game with detailed rules for blind testing. Sorry, no art yet.

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Thu, 08/23/2018 - 16:50
#4
Jay103
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Okay, so an animal theme

Okay, so an animal theme makes sense, certainly. Though calling it a farm when you only have a few traditional farm animals (basically the purple ones) seems a little weird. More of a general animal thing, where "farm" is a sub-category. (farm, pet, bird)

Your description of the +/- 1 thing is about what I'd expect for that mechanic with an 8-14yo audience :) You should consider whether that mechanic is doing you any good, if people seem to have a "who cares where they go" attitude rather than trying to place them strategically.

I'd consider expanding the "quest" thing and removing the +/- 1 thing.

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Thu, 08/23/2018 - 19:10
#5
questccg
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Don't use "Quests"

Use the term "Tasks" for a Farm-oriented type of game!

I think that would go a long way in SOLIDIFYING the game and its theme.

Cheers!

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Fri, 08/24/2018 - 04:37
#6
Mensian
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TASKS!!

Yes, tasks! I like it!

How to name the cards drawn when landing on noncolored fields? Opportunities? Luck cards? I need your help here too. Unfortunately, my English is not the best.

The other naming question is FARM. I like the idea to use farm for a group of animals and to find something else for the environment. Ranch? Homestead? Farmstead?

As for eliminating +1/-1 mechanic: this is the only mechanic that gives some strategic feeling to the game, and I hoped to attract with it some players outside of main target group.
On the other hand, without it, the game will fit into children's game cathegory.
We have to test a lot to see which is better for the game, to keep or to throw this out.

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Fri, 08/24/2018 - 08:52
#7
let-off studios
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Hard to Stop

Mensian wrote:
On the other hand, without it, the game will fit into children's game cathegory. We have to test a lot to see which is better for the game, to keep or to throw this out.
Many of the games I move forward with start off as simple concepts appropriate for children, but then I add layers of decision-making to make it more interesting and likely more complex. I understand the challenge of "knowing when to stop" tweaking and adjusting a design, and it's very often difficult to figure that out. I've gone back to the drawing board on more than a few prototypes because I had wandered too far away from my core concept, wasting time, energy, and brain-space.

As mentioned previously, determining your intended audience will help you decide whether or not you'll be keeping certain mechanics. Farming and animals are topics that pretty much any age group will go for, but it's the execution that will attract a particular audience.

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Fri, 08/24/2018 - 12:02
#8
Jay103
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Mensian wrote: As for

Mensian wrote:

As for eliminating +1/-1 mechanic: this is the only mechanic that gives some strategic feeling to the game, and I hoped to attract with it some players outside of main target group.
On the other hand, without it, the game will fit into children's game cathegory.
We have to test a lot to see which is better for the game, to keep or to throw this out.

What I'd say is to target that market with laser focus.

Adding an element to the game that the kids don't know what to do with, in the hopes that other people will pick up the game and use strategically, is not likely to work. That's because those people probably won't buy the game in the first place.

And if I (as a parent) had a game that I was playing with my kids, where they were ignoring the strategic element of the +/- 1 tokens and I wasn't, I'd win every game. So I'd pretty much have to ignore it too..

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Fri, 08/24/2018 - 14:03
#9
questccg
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Safari Park or Zoo

Mensian wrote:
...The other naming question is FARM. I like the idea to use farm for a group of animals and to find something else for the environment. Ranch? Homestead? Farmstead?

Safari Park or Safari Zoo. This way you can mix & match animals from all over the place. Some can be Chinese Pandas, others can African Giraffes, and still others can be american Cotton-Tail Rabbits...

Because it's a ZOO... It can have a whole MIX of virtually any animal you choose to "exhibit"...

Cheers!

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Mon, 08/27/2018 - 05:07
#10
Mensian
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Thank you

Jay103 wrote:

What I'd say is to target that market with laser focus.

Yes, indeed! This is one of the most important aspects of a successful game. Thank you for your advice.

When I eliminate +1/-1 mechanic, all feeding/cleaning actions will give 2 VP. The diversity and replayability will come from tasks and so, the game becomes language dependant. Someone has to read and understand what is required to complete tasks. The game becomes so simple that in my opinion a child aged 6 can play and enjoy this game when playing with older players who can read. So, what should be the recommended minimum age for this game? 6?

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Mon, 08/27/2018 - 05:06
#11
Mensian
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questccg wrote: Because it's

questccg wrote:

Because it's a ZOO..

The initial question in my first post was if I should use Farm or Zoo or Space or some other theme for this game. So far it seemed that Farm theme could fit well the audience for this game, so I would not change it into zoo.

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Mon, 08/27/2018 - 10:13
#12
Jay103
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Mensian wrote:Jay103

Mensian wrote:
Jay103 wrote:

What I'd say is to target that market with laser focus.

Yes, indeed! This is one of the most important aspects of a successful game. Thank you for your advice.

When I eliminate +1/-1 mechanic, all feeding/cleaning actions will give 2 VP. The diversity and replayability will come from tasks and so, the game becomes language dependant. Someone has to read and understand what is required to complete tasks. The game becomes so simple that in my opinion a child aged 6 can play and enjoy this game when playing with older players who can read. So, what should be the recommended minimum age for this game? 6?


If the cards can be read by others (i.e. they're not held secretly in one's hand), then sure. Keep the language and vocabulary simple. Supplement with icons where possible.

I thought Zoo worked better than Farm, honestly.

I think I'm the only developer here with a game targeted at young kids, so let me know if there's anything I can help with :)

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Mon, 08/27/2018 - 12:16
#13
Tim Edwards
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Jay103 wrote:Mensian

Jay103 wrote:
Mensian wrote:
Jay103 wrote:

What I'd say is to target that market with laser focus.

Yes, indeed! This is one of the most important aspects of a successful game. Thank you for your advice.

When I eliminate +1/-1 mechanic, all feeding/cleaning actions will give 2 VP. The diversity and replayability will come from tasks and so, the game becomes language dependant. Someone has to read and understand what is required to complete tasks. The game becomes so simple that in my opinion a child aged 6 can play and enjoy this game when playing with older players who can read. So, what should be the recommended minimum age for this game? 6?


If the cards can be read by others (i.e. they're not held secretly in one's hand), then sure. Keep the language and vocabulary simple. Supplement with icons where possible.

I thought Zoo worked better than Farm, honestly.

I think I'm the only developer here with a game targeted at young kids, so let me know if there's anything I can help with :)

I also think zoo is better than farm. Make it a dinosaur zoo and I'll buy it for myself.

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Tue, 08/28/2018 - 02:30
#14
Mensian
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Tim Edwards wrote: I also

Tim Edwards wrote:

I also think zoo is better than farm. Make it a dinosaur zoo and I'll buy it for myself.

Dinosaur zoo?
How to group dinosaurs? Carnivores-herbivores-??
I need 12 different dinos. Are there 12 significantly different dinos?

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Tue, 08/28/2018 - 09:24
#15
Jay103
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Mensian wrote:Tim Edwards

Mensian wrote:
Tim Edwards wrote:

I also think zoo is better than farm. Make it a dinosaur zoo and I'll buy it for myself.

Dinosaur zoo?
How to group dinosaurs? Carnivores-herbivores-??
I need 12 different dinos. Are there 12 significantly different dinos?


I think he was mostly kidding about the dino part :)

(but maybe not..)

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Tue, 08/28/2018 - 11:28
#16
Tim Edwards
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Jay103 wrote:Mensian

Jay103 wrote:
Mensian wrote:
Tim Edwards wrote:

I also think zoo is better than farm. Make it a dinosaur zoo and I'll buy it for myself.

Dinosaur zoo?
How to group dinosaurs? Carnivores-herbivores-??
I need 12 different dinos. Are there 12 significantly different dinos?


I think he was mostly kidding about the dino part :)

(but maybe not..)

This website identifies 15 "main dinosaur types". I was sort of kidding until I found it...

https://www.thoughtco.com/main-dinosaur-types-1091963

It raises the age of the target audience a bit - but kids' di-knowledge (ouch) these days is often weirdly detailed. Might be good for a slightly more advanced version of the zoo game later on. :)

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Tue, 08/28/2018 - 11:41
#17
Tim Edwards
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Tim Edwards wrote:Jay103

Tim Edwards wrote:
Jay103 wrote:
Mensian wrote:
Tim Edwards wrote:

I also think zoo is better than farm. Make it a dinosaur zoo and I'll buy it for myself.

Dinosaur zoo?
How to group dinosaurs? Carnivores-herbivores-??
I need 12 different dinos. Are there 12 significantly different dinos?


I think he was mostly kidding about the dino part :)

(but maybe not..)

This website identifies 15 "main dinosaur types". I was sort of kidding until I found it...

https://www.thoughtco.com/main-dinosaur-types-1091963

It raises the age of the target audience a bit - but kids' di-knowledge (ouch) these days is often weirdly detailed. Might be good for a slightly more advanced version of the zoo game later on. :)

And this doesn't include flying and sea-living reptiles - which aren't strictly dinosaurs but..according to Top Trumps, they are!

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