BGDF P-500?

Very cool idea Mark! Like you, I'm not particularly interested in buying or publishing PnP games -- just not my thing -- but something like this seems like it could be a great way that the BGDF community could benefit itself.

Here are some concerns/considerations I'd have:

-- These games would have the same difficulties that all self-published games have: they cost more, and they are an unproven quantity compared to games published by a reputable publisher. What QC would be in place to guarantee that people will get their monies' worth, and make them willing to pay in advance for something? (One possible answer -- revitalize the game design contest idea we discussed in the past, and the prize for the best games would be publication through this P-500/consortium model.)

-- On the other hand, the inherently democratic nature of the P-500 process mitigates this somewhat, as people will only pay for games that look interesting. To encourage them, probably full disclosure will be required -- you'd need to provide the full rulebook, graphics, etc, for every game. Unpublished designers may be prickly about this kind of thing but of course they can choose not to participate.

-- I wonder if a variant of this idea could be used as a way to provide market information to game publishers, and to democratize the publication process. Eg, if there is a "games gallery" and people can go there and vote on the games they're interested in seeing published, this info could be conveyed to publishers to potentially persuade them to take a look at games they might otherwise not see. There could be some benefit to having recommended a game that a publisher picks up, maybe a 5% discount on a preorder of the game or something. Of course, you'd have to get commitment from publishers that they'd actually use the site, rather than their own submissions and marketing channels (which they probably have a great deal more confidence in, and rightly so).

Still, cool idea, worth thinking about more!

-Jeff

I wonder if that established publisher angle is worth pursuing further. Suppose "we" (meaning, whoever actually pursues this) were to work out a deal with someone like GMT. Basically use their "expertise" (they already have all the pieces in place) to do the actual print run, but the product would be branded under "our" name. It seems like at some point, one should be able to hand GMT a finished packet that includes rules and graphics (layed out, ready for the printer in whatever format GMT specifies), and for a fee or cut of the action they get it printed. By using a brand other than GMT, they risk no damage to their own brand.

I'm not sure about your numbers argument though: there is a difference between a game that might have a maximum sale of 500 copies and one that would easily sell 500+. The great thing about the 'net is that we now have a way of finding all of those 500 customers, which would make it viable (if not a huge money-spinner.) But my impression of the P-500 system is that it is going to tend more towards the first sort of game than the second.

(In reply to Mistre, no, I'm not an on-line expert, although I do know enough to know what can be done relatively straight-forwardly. And yes, we were thinking very much that an umbrella site for indie on-line games would definitely be more a sensible way forwards as a showcase for designs rather than the prototype submission system.)

Based on the information located at the link provided in the original post (http://www.gmtgames.com/t-GMTP500Details.aspx), it seems that thr 500-750 range is what is desired before any charges will be put on the pre-order credit cards.

I think your statement about min run of 1000 copies might factor into that number, though min run printing did not seem to be detailed in the information (though I cannot recall). And since the production was to occur in the 700-750 *pre-order* range, once can assume that that 3/4 of the copies has to be sold in order to offset the production cost overhead.

I wish I could have more confidence in this process, it could be a great avenue for many hobbyist designers, but I just dont understand how it would work in the long run.