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What makes "Magic" so special...

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Sat, 12/28/2019 - 18:46
#31
X3M
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Cluster F***

questccg wrote:
X3M wrote:
I never understood why they didn't do an expandable plan?

Can you explain what this is and how it works??? It might be good for me to see if it may be used with "Monster Keep" (MK).

X3M wrote:
Like, "we make basics", then "synergy" and then "upgrades".
And switch between these 3 constantly.

I think this is related to ABOVE. Can you explain further???


Don't invent a car that is made of lego.
Invent the lego blocks themself.
And a plan on how to add new blocks that fit in nicely. Thus every combination should fit.
Also, the new type of blocks will be introduced one by one. Perhaps spread out over multiple add-ons. Perhaps revisited once combined with another interesting lego block.

Here are my expansion options:
:) 1. Armor/Damage interactions.
:) 2. Speed/Range interactions.
:) 3. Unit/Structure and Organic/Mechanical attributes.
:) 4. Air/Ground/Sub attributes.
:\ 5. Piercing weapons.
:\ 6. Ballistic and X-ray weapons.
:) 7. Projectiles that are instant or slower.
:? 8. Turn altered weapons.
:| 9. Additional attributes and corresponding weapons.
:) 10. Suicidal designs.
:) 11. Chain reaction weapons.
:) 12. Cool-down and Charging.
:( 13. Weapon choices(currently working on).
:\ 14. Minimum range.
:) 15. Altered sizes.
:) 16. Altered propulsion systems.

:) Absolutely sure, this is balanced. And also a lot of fun!
:\ This is balanced. But the calculation work behind the scenes, it can be ridiculous.
:| Balanced? Not sure. Also, often needs a lot of calculations behind the scenes.
:( Needs work.
:? Kinda is replaced. But is a different mechanic. And can be used in combination with the new mechanic too!

Points 1, 2 and 3 are minimal demands for the first edition.
Then I can add more variation to those points. And add other points.
Some are simple. Some are very hard, even for me.
Although, while you see a lego block. The technique in making such refined blocks is the job of the designer. The player, plays and builds.

questccg wrote:

X3M wrote:
MtG thinks of mechanics. But only look at the balance, when the cards are already out? Well, at least they got paid for those cards.

I can't understand WHY(?) they design cards and then put them on the BAN LIST...! This too me is like fncken retards. Like WHY(!) do they design such cards that they need to BAN them later?!?!?! TOTALLY LAME IMHO!

Note #1: Yu-Gi-Oh! was the OPPOSITE: they would design impossibly hard combos that are super powerful to beat ... maybe only by using a counter of ANOTHER super hard combo... Like you unlock YOUR super powerful combo... And then the next round your opponent unlocks his/her super powerful combo and then it's a REAL battle until the end!


The answer here is...money.
Buy this card!!!
Now it is banned!!!
Here is another card for you to buy!
Whoopsiedaisy, it got banned... :)
...
...Want another good card?

***

While MtG keeps expanding (no plan).
I personally think of cutting down in my own design (cutting the plan).

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Sat, 12/28/2019 - 20:11
#32
questccg
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Always about the money with Magic!

X3M wrote:
Don't invent a car that is made of lego. Invent the lego blocks themselves.

Not sure how in my design that would work. There are 12 cards per player and a pouch with parts (cubes and dice). That's it. If it becomes popular, I will produce NEW RACES which kind of play differently (that's the challenge: to figure each race's play style).

X3M wrote:
The answer here is...money.
Buy this card!!!
Now it is banned!!!
Here is another card for you to buy!
Whoopsiedaisy, it got banned... :)

So you are saying they make MORE money on "banned" cards?! So when these cards FIRST "appear" ... everyone goes to their store to BUY them, right? And then they last for an edition or two and then the cards is deemed too strong and therefore BANNED. Then whatever NEW strategy is acceptable or another (I should say) strategy (way of play) emerges with certain good cards... And it too lasts only as LONG as WOTC decide that the play style of that deck is "acceptable" to all players. Right?

X3M wrote:
While MtG keeps expanding (no plan). I personally think of cutting down in my own design (cutting the plan).

I understood. My game has a Micro Deck of 12 cards per player. It's very TRIM as a design. Not much extra except for a pouch and parts (cubes and dice). So there is no real need to "cut-down" on content. I'm good there the game is already VERY LEAN.

BUT my concern is "expandability". I want to DESIGN new "races" for future Editions. The game follows a Living Card Game approach (LCG). Meaning new "kits" of cards will be made available for purchase... I'm still working on the "commercial" side of things ... However the basic idea is every 1 year or so, a NEW couple races appear and can be played.

MY problem is ensuring that people are INTERESTED in purchasing NEW card "kits". Aside from ART which is loosely secondary, GAMING is the real reason to purchase NEW cards. So while I may have real NICE art, unless the "new" races ADD something to the game, it's not likely that players will BUY the new races...

Do you understand my MK dilemma?

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Sat, 12/28/2019 - 21:49
#33
X3M
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I guess you could try the following

Design 24 cards instead of 12. See what you need to expand, now.
It might be a simple mechanic or ability that is added or not.
See if you can add another one.
Each new addition might expand a list of a certain mechanic. Or add a new list altogether.

Here how it could go as example, for my game:

Armor tier 1 and 6, damage tier 1 and 6, speed 2, range 2.
4 designs possible.

I introduce multi damage of 2 for damage tier 1.
Now 6 designs are possible.

I introduce a different range.
12 designs.

I introduce the 4 basic attributes.
48 designs.

I raise range options from 2 to 5.
120 designs.

I add 1 speed option.
240 designs.

I add 3 new armor and damage tiers.
1500 designs.

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Sat, 12/28/2019 - 22:54
#34
questccg
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My game is very different but not 100% incompatible

X3M wrote:
Design 24 cards instead of 12. See what you need to expand, now...

I understand. In truth I have 48 cards in prep. But not all of them are designed. 12 "First Edition" are designed... but might need a REVIEW to ensure that they are A> Strong ENOUGH and B> Not TOO strong. And I have three (3) races in the First Edition...

What you want me to do is "determine" HOW the "races" will be different, right??? I have in total nine (9) races... Maybe I should generally design them in such a way that they "follow" specific rules and then ADD some exception to some of them (for variability).

I'm not ready ATM. Maybe later this week when I can get a few minutes away from TradeWorlds editing. Like Next Thursday or Friday might be feasible...

I understand what you are saying... But my game is very different from an RTS you can just "add" something and you have a whole pool of new possibilities. Basically it's a Deck-Construction game with a strong Area Control mechanic. I haven't had a chance to prototype some of the latest ideas... Well I got started ... but didn't go very far TBH.

Maybe I can work on something soon... Usually my evening time is left for DESIGNING and re-working designs. But BECAUSE of TradeWorlds being in "such bad shape"... I need to basically do some editing EACH DAY.

That leaves me NO TIME to work on Monster Keep (MK).

Anyhow ... What's 1 month ... in the grander scheme of things!?

Note #1: I have (tonight) come up with an interesting way of "qualifying" the races. It's using 3 stats and dice. The "system" works on nine (9) points. I'll see WHERE this leads. But THANKS you got me thinking that instead of "just blindly" seeing what expansions may look like... That I do some preliminary PLANNING. At least from a TOP LEVEL and then if some cards vary from the initial design plans, they mostly operate AS-DESIGNED!

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Sun, 12/29/2019 - 06:50
#35
X3M
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Faction design, also for cards

When I design a faction.
They are strong in certain statistics.
A theme design if you will.
Befitting the race.

So you need to make sure that stats by themselves are balanced as well.
I got lucky that my initial idea already was a self inflicting RPS.
1 beats 0. 2 beats 1. 0 beats 2. Kind of idea.

I don't know how your statistics work exactly.
But what is the list you work with?
How many options do you have with each statistic?

MtG kept churning out new statistics for mechanics.
-Trample is one of those. That effectively doubled the number of cards.
-Fly is the same story. Catching flying units as well. Putting those 2 in the same category here.
-Cards that double as land.
-First strike.
-Negation of damage.

2 to the power of 5 here, that makes a total combination possible of 32.

The stats go from 0 to 9 damage. Health from 0 (damage card) to 9 damage. This is 100 combinations.

3200 in total if they wanted.
(Of course fly and 0 health don't combine.)

The very basic MtG already had a lot of combinations.

Themes could be:
-Weak or strong monsters
-Damage/Kill cards
-Shield/Heal cards
-Lots of flying cards
-Lots of anti flying cards

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Sun, 12/29/2019 - 10:39
#36
larienna
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Personally I value the "what

Personally I value the "what you pay is what you get" philosophy in balancing cost and abilities. I am also against the card inflation in power over time even if some say it is necessary to keep the game going on.

I sorted "Duel Master" cards lately, and there seems to be some faction were cards are weaker because they assume the presence of other cards in the same color. This is very bad, because it makes those cards useless as they are much less powerful than other cards with the same ability.

For example, blue and black in DM, reduce the strength by 1000 on all cards compared to other colors. For other colors, let say a 4 cost creature will have a 4000 strength. But blue and black will cost 4 for a 3000

As for giving flavor to factions, you can make certain abilities exclusive to certain factions.

Many years ago, I wrote an article about how to design special abilities, maybe it could help:

http://bgd.lariennalibrary.com/index.php?n=DesignArticle.Article20090610...

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