Hey guys, so I had an idea, and was mostly curious on whether there are games with no real objective. I know indie survival video games have become popular, but is this a concept that can apply to tabletops? Or maybe a game with an endgame, but it's not quite so clear to the players?
Endless Board Game? (A game with no goal)
Tue, 01/05/2016 - 23:01
Tue, 01/05/2016 - 23:13
#1
How about SECRET OBJECTIVES?
Maybe use the "Clue" mechanic and place three (3) objectives in an envelope.
And when players get freaken tired of playing the game - the can look to see if they have won or lost the game! Hahaha! :P
Some idiot in the group is going to want to do all the "missions" or "tasks" just to win the game... But maybe it can be GROUP concensus: "We play 20 missions and then see."
Just another idea!
Tue, 01/05/2016 - 23:37
#2
A game with no goal? Take a
A game with no goal? Take a look at any sandbox game, and ask yourself if it would be worthwhile for a tabletop. Also consider what you need for the tabletop.
Popular building games like minecraft would actually be bad since you can't stack infinite stuff on the table. Unless players keep buying.
That players keep buying, is a major factor to consider for these games.
Tue, 01/05/2016 - 23:53
#3
It's called
Hey guys, so I had an idea, and was mostly curious on whether there are games with no real objective. I know indie survival video games have become popular, but is this a concept that can apply to tabletops? Or maybe a game with an endgame, but it's not quite so clear to the players?
It's called Monopoly.
Wed, 01/06/2016 - 02:08
#4
I don't think its a terrible
I don't think its a terrible idea. I'm actually designing such a game. I'll have it at http://www.protospiel-mn.org if you're interested.
Wed, 01/06/2016 - 03:45
#6
well...
It's called Monopoly.
The goal of Monopoly is to bankrupt your opponents, lol.
That, my friend, is called a joke.
Wed, 01/06/2016 - 04:19
#7
I immediately think of RPG
I immediately think of RPG systems that let people build their own custom campaigns and universes that could be "endless." Maybe look in that genre for potential inspiration (I haven't played these, but I've heard good things about Paranoia and Burning Wheel).
Wed, 01/06/2016 - 04:29
#8
Technically...
Endless could just be something as easy as X-Wing, but adds more ships at certain points in the game.
But a game that's mechanically built to be endless? That, like some have said, seems to be more of an RPG idea.
Of course with a game that is "endless", the game will have to have an easy way to "save" your progress in order for play to pause due to life stuff. Still, I don't think that it's impossible. In fact, I think it's far easier to have an endless board game than to have an endless digital game.
The other factor will have to be content. I believe that will be the biggest issue when it comes to an "endless" game. Balancing that content will have to be nonstop and any misstep can break the game. It's a tricky task, but I think it can be done.
Wed, 01/06/2016 - 11:23
#9
analogy to video games
I don't know if this fits, but old arcade style games are typically endless (usually limited only by computer hardware).
The difficulty gradually increases until the player dies. If the player can also grow in strength, a game could be designed so that a good player with decent luck could manage to play forever.
The main problem is how to keep the players on their toes, and introduce novel elements. Maybe a system like risk legacy, where you have sealed envelopes opened as players reach higher levels would be interesting, but that seems to defeat the goal of "endless"
Wed, 01/06/2016 - 11:32
#10
Rangerlab wrote:Thanks guys.
Thanks guys. Mostly, my friend had an idea to do an infinite RPG, where it can just keep going and going. I suppose that might have quests, but I was hoping that it would be geared more open ended, where if you wanted to do quests, fine. But if you wanted to go off and try and take over a kingdom, that's fine too. Only problem I have there is that It would probably turn more into a bunch of friends playing separate characters on a single board, occasionally teaming up, rather than most RPGs where players are in a party and work together. Idk though. Thanks for the help, though!
Your friends idea would be closer to old-school pen and paper role playing games like D&D. In those games, one player is tasked with generating and running the dungeon (they have presets you can buy if you're lazy). The Dungeon Master running the dungeon is advised to place monsters depending on the level of the players combined, so if the players split up, in many cases everyone would get killed. Also, the game had distinct classes which could handle different problems, so players were further encouraged to stick together.
You might want to know, "modern" pen and paper RPGs have moved away from grid based, dice heavy, boardgame-ish play, and towards cooperative storytelling, because players have found this to be both faster, more fun(if you have a decent DM), and a lot easier to play.
Be advised, making an rules heavy RPG will get you the scorn of modern pen and paper RPG players.
Wed, 01/06/2016 - 12:03
#11
Hmmm...
My thoughts on the idea are as follows:
If you're making an "endless" game with no real objective, what will drive the players to play it? Co-operative games operate on a feeling of tension, knowing that the game will end soon if they do nothing (or the wrong thing). Competitive games thrive on there being victory conditions that are attainable, and that can be achieved before others, creating a dynamic where it's important to make choices to advance ahead of your opponents (in euros) or to attack other players (ameritrash - term used loosely).
However, the idea of creating an endless game goes against these traditional design principles because there is no longer inter-player or game-induced tension/conflict. Therefore, the game would likely lose appeal, since there is no action that provides rewards to the players, at least within a single game session.
However, some games have gone against the grain and had success. One game in particular, Hanabi, has become popular, and it has a system where you compare your score from the current game against a scoring chart that tells you how well you've done. We found that this is all right for beginners, but we don't like it as more experienced players: we add more tension to the game by attempting to play perfectly and get a perfect score. I think that subconsciously, we "fixed" the game to add that tension back in, which made it more fun for us.
I think that the key to creating an "infinite" game is coming up with incremental objectives that have permanent effects (a la Risk Legacy or Pandemic Legacy), along with some sort of timer to add tension back in the game (whether created by a competitive win condition or a "time's up" mechanic). The only other option I know if is a scoring system (like old arcade games) that motivates you to score the highest you can (perhaps with a worldwide leaderboard app to accompany the game?).
Also, like pointed out above, you need a way to put it down and pick it back up again. If the game is done in incremental objectives, you can end that "session" there and continue later with a similar set up to the original.
However, if none of this quite sounds like what you're going for, I recommend that you try out D&D 5th edition - it's a never-ending story that you play until your paladin moves out of town (and then you play by skype!).
EDIT: if you want to play a game that FEELS endles, but actually isn't, you can also try out games like Advanced Civilization or Twilight Imperium :)
Wed, 01/06/2016 - 14:43
#12
The idea doesn't particularly
The idea doesn't particularly appeal to me as the hook, but it doesn't cmpletely put me off, and it's interesting enough of a concept that I would look deeper to see what is really meant by it.
As mentioned above, I think most RPG's are essentially board games that never end. But they do have the draws of episodes which end, plus ongoing advancement as well as character development. (This latter I mean in the sense that the phrase would be used in literature -- the personalities of the characters.) However, in really long-running games, there is an "end" when the players have become godlike enough not to have any challenges left.
I think your game would have to have many of the same features to be viable. There would have to be episodes that have some sense of finality, to give a completion satisfaction, and there would have to be some sort of advancement, such that you can see in your 4th or 5th game that players are doing stuff they couldn't have imagined in the first game. If your game were compelling and successful enough, you could continue to publish expansions that deal with people topping off of the current game, until either you're sick of it or your customers are.
I guess my point is that I don't foresee success for a game that is endless but stagnant. That would just seem pointless.
Wed, 01/06/2016 - 15:37
#13
http://www.infinite-game.net/
Is something to read. Perhaps it gives you new idea's.
It only supplied me with one:
Evolution game.
You get more and more species. Some die out. But the last one never dies out. And multiple species can evolve from 1 species.
Don't ask me how I put these 2 together. :)
Wed, 01/06/2016 - 23:13
#14
You just do a little better each time...
One idea that some other people have mentioned that could do well is something that gets harder and harder as the game goes on, so players are just trying for a "high Score". As an example, there was an old game for the Intellivision called Night Stalker where the enemies got harder and harder the higher your score went. it was a simple shooter game based in a small maze, and something like that could work, maybe put the players in a maze and see how long they can survive. It could be cooperative or competitive.
Another game to consider is a more recent game called FTL: Faster than Light. You fly a ship into random encounter after random encounter, sometimes enemy ships, sometimes solar flares or boarding parties, etc. There is an end goal in this game (defeat the flagship) but perhaps a large event deck that players play to see how many encounters they can survive.
There's also the "Respawn" concept where you play until you die, but you can "respawn" and continue at certain "save points".
Just a couple ideas
Thu, 01/07/2016 - 09:31
#15
Stealthpike brings up some
Stealthpike brings up some points I'd like to echo, and add my own.
SOLO PLAY: If a game has no objective, chances are I'd prefer to play it by myself. That way I can develop objectives and plans of action on my own without worrying about accommodating other players (or having my methods adulterated by other players). Call me selfish if you like, but I would appreciate the freedom to attempt different strategies/tactics at my own pace and method, approaching the game more as a puzzle than as a game, so to speak.
Additionally, I don't have the social endurance to sit through someone's aggravatingly-long turn of unfocused objective-creation. That seems too much of a chore to me, particularly when I'm supposed to be having fun.
INCREASING DIFFICULTY: I do like this idea, and it also provides progress without objectives. The only thing the player knows when they start the game is that challenges, opponents, and obstacles will become more difficult the longer the game is played.
Full disclosure: I'm also a HUGE fan of retro arcade games from the 80's and 90's and casual, puzzle-action games in general, so I'm partial to this style of gameplay anyhow.
ACHIEVEMENTS: These also provide a sense of progress, not in terms of objectives but at least in a sense of experiencing the game. For example, if a player has explored 10 caverns, maybe they attain "Spelunker" status and start the game with a Climbing Rope or Hooded Lantern to encourage them to continue going underground. If they went Swimming over 100 tiles in a single game session, they earn the "Waterborne" status and start a new game with a pair of Flippers.
The notion behind these Achievements is to provide a single, disposable reward for playing the game and sticking with it, without forcing the player to go in a particular direction - that is, pursuing game-specified objectives. The player is rewarded for pursuing objectives they themselves create.
By making it a disposable item: it's not a permanent fixture and liable to become overpowered or easily "stacked" with additional perks; it can be lost due to back luck or careless play; it can be abandoned once the player chooses to pursue a different self-determined objective. For example, if someone has been rewarded with a Well-Crafted Saddle for domesticating animals in a previous game, they can break that down to its components - perhaps leather straps and metal fittings - to craft a Climbing Harness. Or maybe it's turned into fuel for a campfire. Or maybe the player loses it when their animal wanders off in the night. Or... well, I hope you see what I mean.
Tue, 01/12/2016 - 20:39
#16
I've played a game like this recently
This immediately makes me think of Kingdom Death. I recently had the pleasure of starting a campaign of this and it is very a much a game that does not provide much by way of explanation of what is going on or what the end game is outside of simple survival. That survival comes from hunting grotesque game and building resources. Characters come and go but the main theme remains - survive. It's a co-op game but can be played singularly (you would just control the actions of the 4 survivors as they hunt their game). It's a bit brutal but it does lend to the idea that it is possible to have a game without an immediate goal.
Sat, 02/06/2016 - 03:58
#17
All games have some concept
All games have some concept and objective, and what you mentioned survival is an objective. You have to consider if players will get bored with endless game play. A lot of people like to know how to win to encourage them to give it there all to win. Humans naturally like winning so there has to be an end somewhere.
Thanks guys. Mostly, my friend had an idea to do an infinite RPG, where it can just keep going and going. I suppose that might have quests, but I was hoping that it would be geared more open ended, where if you wanted to do quests, fine. But if you wanted to go off and try and take over a kingdom, that's fine too. Only problem I have there is that It would probably turn more into a bunch of friends playing separate characters on a single board, occasionally teaming up, rather than most RPGs where players are in a party and work together. Idk though. Thanks for the help, though!
It's called Monopoly.
The goal of Monopoly is to bankrupt your opponents, lol.