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The Rap Game (help requested and idea)

6 replies [Last post]
Tue, 08/04/2015 - 06:09
Mansemat
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The premise is simple:
Each player has a hand of 5 "rhyme" cards depicting an unfinished lyric from a rap/hip hop etc genre. The active player will try to fill in a word in the blank space to start a rhyme.

The next player will then look at his hand and pick an appropriate response, playing the card and adding a rhyme on the previous word.

Succesfully doing so will grant the player two points. Faillure to do so will give a negative point. Players alternatively can use one of the examples to get one point.

Each succesful rhyme card is placed next to the other allowing players to pick up on them essentially creating a visual lyric. A new rhyme word is placed underneath allowing players to rhyme on previous words.
(PROBLEM: remembering the word > might use dry erase to write the words)

ADDITIONAL players can string certain cards to create more elaborate and/or creative rhymes (rather then the AABB type) granting more points.
ADDITIONAL players can play on a time constraint and the game would be provided with a timer, or an app with a beat would be even better.

Players can also have access to "wildcards" which can be played when they are either stumped or wish another card in their hand. These are the typical filler words used in many rap songs such as "uhuh, yeah, yiii, ka-kaw ka-kaw (bird sound) etc" Playing these won't grant points but won't penalise you either.

There are several types of cards ranging in difficulty each having a different type of rap (rap, gangsta, diss, dirty south, hip hop, ... etc)

The game ends after X rounds, X points or after achiving a song (based on X rows of lyrics).

The game is supposed to be nonsenical and fun, allowing players to use their rhyming skills by trying to "out-do" the other players. Tactics might be minimal but the usage of wildcards or difficult words might ramp things up.

Last but not least: the first player token is a cardboard microphone.
Overal look of the game needs to be rap/hiphoppy ofcourse.

Now...
The problem I have at the moment is to make a database of good rap lyrics. My knowledge of the genre is "casual listener" and it would be a great help if people could participate in finding lyrics. These would mainly be sentences from rap and hip hop songs. I have compiled a (very small) list to start of but the more the better.
If anyoone would like to participate please do so (people at BGG forums didn't seem to be that interested but I'll try here again), it'll be a joint venture if that would be a problem.

Lemme know! Grts!

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Tue, 08/04/2015 - 07:44
#1
Midnight_Carnival
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sorry, no ideas, but...

I'm not really into that sort of music, your game sounds like a lot of fun though and I think it would be a great aid to people teaching kids or second language speakers English

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Tue, 08/04/2015 - 08:40
#2
andymakespasta
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Joined: 07/26/2015
Relevent link

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/537716/machine-learning-algorithm-m...

taken from the paper cited:

Table 1: A selection of popular rappers and their
rhyme densities, i.e., their average rhyme lengths
per word.
Rank Artist Rhyme density
1. Inspectah Deck 1.187
2. Rakim 1.180
3. Redrama 1.168
30. The Notorious B.I.G. 1.059
31. Lil Wayne 1.056
32. Nicki Minaj 1.056
33. 2Pac 1.054
39. Eminem 1.047
40. Nas 1.043
50. Jay-Z 1.026
63. Wu-Tang Clan 1.002
77. Snoop Dogg 0.967
78. Dr. Dre 0.966
94. The Lonely Island 0.870

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Wed, 08/05/2015 - 02:36
#3
Mansemat
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The Lonely Island hitting it

The Lonely Island hitting it up there huh.

I'll compile a list from that list but it'll take a lot of reading and time (hence the requirement of help).

Technically I guess it could be any genre but I think rap is suited best due to it's nature and style (and to be frank, comedic possibilities)

http://www.rapquote.com/
could provide usefull as well

Ofcourse sufficient "credits" must be provided. I doubt there will be any problems regarding copyright since 10 second clips in audio is generally accepted and the fact you can't copyright mere words. Additionally we will leave out words making it a mere sentence... Ofcourse I'm not a copyright lawyer but hey... Brave new world, change the system.

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Wed, 08/05/2015 - 06:53
#4
Soulfinger
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This could be a fun game, but

This could be a fun game, but the best thing you can do is really immerse yourself in the genre. I don't know what you mean by "casual listener," but I'm hoping that you aren't a stranger to Afrika Bambaataa or the Amen break. Rap and hip hop have deep roots, and it's an enjoyable education to explore them. If you don't have a solid appreciation for the music then the game is liable to fail.

You may want to first decide on a sub-genre of rap, instead of having them as categories (mostly because it will focus your efforts generating this database you are after but also refine the identity of your product). Gangsta rap, for example, is going to limit your audience, as not everyone feels comfortable doing obscene NWA-style lyrics. Same thing with Trap and all of the drug references. Worse case scenario in both cases is that you have a bunch of frat boys enunciating n-word lyrics a little too clearly and far too often. Then you have your Conscious rappers, like Mos Def, whose lyrics are going to lean a little too much toward social or political messages for a party game.

I want to say, "Go old skool with it," but though the rhymes are cleaner and the pace easier for amateurs to keep up with, the 'party and have fun' lyrics aren't necessarily identifiable for contemporary audiences. That leaves you with modern pop rap, like Lil Wayne or Drake, which is pretty *bleh* for me, but I'm more of a Wu Tang and Grandmaster Flash sort of guy.

Just to make sure you know, respect copyrights. Generate your own lyrics or modify whenever you are unsure if you are lifting too much identifiable material from an existing song. It's ironic, considering how sampling has been a cornerstone of the genre from its inception, but even sampling has been subject to heavy litigation for many years now. That said, if your game is about completing lyrics, there's nothing wrong with "Straight out of . . .," "I grew up on the . . .," or "So we gonna go . . ." Sure, most rap aficionados are going to equate the first one with "Compton," but there's not enough there for it to be an infringement issue. Especially since it could just as easily be a reference to CB4's "Straight Out of Locash."

Lastly, if you want to generate your own beats for an accompanying app, I found Fruity Loops to be very fun and easy to work with.

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Wed, 08/05/2015 - 07:10
#5
Soulfinger
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Mansemat wrote:Ofcourse

Mansemat wrote:
Ofcourse sufficient "credits" must be provided. I doubt there will be any problems regarding copyright since 10 second clips in audio is generally accepted and the fact you can't copyright mere words. Additionally we will leave out words making it a mere sentence... Ofcourse I'm not a copyright lawyer but hey... Brave new world, change the system.

Oh, wow! I missed this when I wrote my previous post. Yes, absolutely YES, you can copyright mere words. You can, in fact, even copyright/trademark a single word. Every single rap song is copyrighted, and those copyright claims are backed by veteran lawyers working for very litigious record labels. You could spend thousands to produce your product only to be shut down with a cease-and-desist order before you ever ship a single unit.

Second, NO, 10 second audio clips in audio are generally NOT acceptable. You are citing an urban legend. Yes, numerous artists have sampled without permission. However, the majority later settled out of court with the respective copyright holders for very large sums. Fair use does not apply to your venture, because you are looking to profit from this work. You don't give "Credits" to the artists, you seek out licensing ahead of time, which you can't afford (assuming you aren't a millionaire playboy doing this game on a whim). You can go ahead and "change the system," but understand that doing so is going to cost you hundreds of thousands in legal fees. The record labels don't even need to win a lawsuit against you. They can bury you so deep in expenses that any victory you could obtain would be entirely pyrrhic. So, though you don't need to be a copyright lawyer, I highly recommend that you learn copyright law.

http://www.mediamusicnow.co.uk/blog/2009/04/18/fair-use-music-copyright/

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Wed, 08/05/2015 - 08:46
#6
Mansemat
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Soulfinger wrote:This could

Soulfinger wrote:
This could be a fun game, but the best thing you can do is really immerse yourself in the genre. I don't know what you mean by "casual listener," but I'm hoping that you aren't a stranger to Afrika Bambaataa or the Amen break. Rap and hip hop have deep roots, and it's an enjoyable education to explore them. If you don't have a solid appreciation for the music then the game is liable to fail.

By casual listener I mean just that. My style of music is ecclectic and I listen to almost everything, shuffled, mix so no I'm far from able to call myself an expert in the genre of rap... Which is why I'm requesting help from people who are. I didn't know about Afrika Bambaataa till I did my research and my research for now solely consists of the basics.
Asking people for help is the way to bypass this... every person in existance can do anything they set their mind to... but sometimes it's done quicker and better by those who are "made for it".

Soulfinger wrote:
You may want to first decide on a sub-genre of rap, instead of having them as categories (mostly because it will focus your efforts generating this database you are after but also refine the identity of your product). Gangsta rap, for example, is going to limit your audience, as not everyone feels comfortable doing obscene NWA-style lyrics. Same thing with Trap and all of the drug references. Worse case scenario in both cases is that you have a bunch of frat boys enunciating n-word lyrics a little too clearly and far too often. Then you have your Conscious rappers, like Mos Def, whose lyrics are going to lean a little too much toward social or political messages for a party game.

For the base game I want something of everything so everyone can enjoy. You can't cater to everyone, people who won't like rap won't necessarily like the game but that's true for everything.

I don't care about farming and cleaning my garden in my games or real life so I won't play a game about them. People who don't like rap won't do this either. And I doubt the creator of Agricola had to spend years indulging himself into the inner workings of farming.

As for curse words and insensitive words: I'm not gonna put them in nor was planning to. I don't like censorship but understand commercially blahblah so it's easily solved by using d*** or something, leaving them out. As for Fratboys... fratboys will be fratboys with or without the incentive, if they want to put it in they will. I wasn't planning on using the feared word, maybe won't even use the b-word or the c-word cause it serves no purpose in the game.

As for heavy political rap in a party game... that's like "i'm too tired to think about this"... it's... ugh...no...gtfo.

Again this is easily resolved by having a myriad of choices, colorcoded so people can mix and match all they frakking like. Rap is, imo, about freedom of speech, and restricting it goes against the flow but sure no jigga's with another letter or offensive stuff. Dirty south rap has problems with that now (idk)?

Soulfinger wrote:
I want to say, "Go old skool with it," but though the rhymes are cleaner and the pace easier for amateurs to keep up with, the 'party and have fun' lyrics aren't necessarily identifiable for contemporary audiences. That leaves you with modern pop rap, like Lil Wayne or Drake, which is pretty *bleh* for me, but I'm more of a Wu Tang and Grandmaster Flash sort of guy.

Using genres was planned to be as a sort of difficulty level, I would use oldskool rap as easy and the heavier political (like Immortal Technique?) as difficult.
Diversity would bring something to the table for everyone and, thinking commercially, it would be possible to make "gangsta rap" expansions for those who wish it. It would also be more funny to follow up a heavy gangsta rap lyric with one from Lonely Island.

Soulfinger wrote:
Just to make sure you know, respect copyrights. Generate your own lyrics or modify whenever you are unsure if you are lifting too much identifiable material from an existing song. It's ironic, considering how sampling has been a cornerstone of the genre from its inception, but even sampling has been subject to heavy litigation for many years now. That said, if your game is about completing lyrics, there's nothing wrong with "Straight out of . . .," "I grew up on the . . .," or "So we gonna go . . ." Sure, most rap aficionados are going to equate the first one with "Compton," but there's not enough there for it to be an infringement issue. Especially since it could just as easily be a reference to CB4's "Straight Out of Locash."

Yes yes copyright, respect and fear the law I get all that. But there are loopholes everywhere and one country's law isn't the other. But these are imo things not to consider just yet nor do I have the money to get a lawyer to figure this all out. The game in essence is about completing a lyric (either imagined, actual or a parody of an existing lyric -weird all, someone?).

It will also be more plausible to have "straight out of..." kind of lyrics in the game than the much more elaborate ones from whatever-rapper-name that are extremely specific.

Soulfinger wrote:
Oh, wow! I missed this when I wrote my previous post. Yes, absolutely YES, you can copyright mere words. You can, in fact, even copyright/trademark a single word. Every single rap song is copyrighted, and those copyright claims are backed by veteran lawyers working for very litigious record labels. You could spend thousands to produce your product only to be shut down with a cease-and-desist order before you ever ship a single unit.

No objection here but... we're not there yet. I'm asking help to create and see that this is done both in style with the rap-world as well as being "creative" avoiding crap like C&D's. I could do it all by myself but, like you said, it'll be "I got up this morning and walked my ...."-kind of lyrics from beginning to end. It needs authenticity and I, sir, am not a gangster, wigga, metalhead or whatever boxes exist (sounds kinda pretentious, all i'm trying to say is that I'm not a specialist, merely a doctor, i'm a jack-of-all-trades in all respect, master of many, expert of few.)

But yes, fear the copyright law and the lawyers, stifling ideas and creativity since 19-whenever.

Soulfinger wrote:
Second, NO, 10 second audio clips in audio are generally NOT acceptable. You are citing an urban legend. Yes, numerous artists have sampled without permission. However, the majority later settled out of court with the respective copyright holders for very large sums. Fair use does not apply to your venture, because you are looking to profit from this work. You don't give "Credits" to the artists, you seek out licensing ahead of time, which you can't afford (assuming you aren't a millionaire playboy doing this game on a whim). You can go ahead and "change the system," but understand that doing so is going to cost you hundreds of thousands in legal fees. The record labels don't even need to win a lawsuit against you. They can bury you so deep in expenses that any victory you could obtain would be entirely pyrrhic. So, though you don't need to be a copyright lawyer, I highly recommend that you learn copyright law.

Who said anything about profit? It would be nice but hey... I'm not able to freelance, this is merely an idea, don't have a company etc.
I know, you pay Cola to use their name not vice versa
The urban legend part I'm sure is true but I've heard people on the radio utter the same words... so we all know shit basically?
I know about copyright law, in parts, but if I knew everything I'd be one of those people working for the company.

So in short: I need people like you who are clearly more knowledgable about lyrics and the genre than me cause I know that on my own it wouldn't be half of what it can be.
People who want to look past all the laws and rules for a change would be nice too, I stifle myself too much already thinking about things that are implausible and not possible. I can' t do this or that cause I don't have this or that... it needs to be on your mind but not control it.

I hope you get what I mean.

I have a very basic spreadsheet (cuz data-merge/indesign) in place people could add things to to create the database. The rest is for later tbf

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