looking for a partner

The game is actually a combination of wargame and miniature battle concepts with a bit of Diplomacy thrown in and using a simplified area control / resource economic system. It also uses 3 dimensions in the sense that altitudes of -9 to +9 exist and the planets are spaced on various levels.

It would qualify as a heavy game with easy to learn rules.

My first guess for physical components would be (this is most likely more than possibly needed)

Game pieces not done as die cut sheets:

1 board, 1 rulebook

50 of each color fleet stands (300 total) - approx 15mm to 3/4 inch length

150 fleet trays (will nest) - thin plastic

150 ship trays (will nest) - thin plastic

2 fleet id trays (hold sorted pairs of fleet id chits, will nest to make a lid) - thin plastic
2 chit and marker trays (hold sorted chits and markers, nest to make a lid) - thin plastic

A fleet stand will hold 2 chits side by side, each chit 6-8mm or approx 3/8 inch in width and either same in height or slightly taller.

Dual sided chits - neutral color:

Level (altitude) chits : 10 each level plus additional 5 per planet (matching the planet level) 190 + 185 = 375 chits

Fleet ID markers : 200 pairs (sequential numbers) = 400 chits

Single sided (blank on back) oversized chits:

Oversized round markers - Planet (color) markers - 35 each player = 210

Planet (owner) chits - 35 each player = 210

Elongated width ship type chits (neutral color) - 100 terraformer, 150 explorer, 150 scout, 150 warship, 150 basestar

Unit/Damage chits: Armor chits, weapon chits, and drive chits - 200 each type = 600 chits
Terraforming chits = 50
hyperdrive chits = 200
sensor chits = 150
system chits = 200
multifire chits = 200

Economic Point (money) chits - not yet determined for count and denominations.

Exploded component chits to represent damage on the top shelf of ship trays in combat = 300

Movement chits - arrow toward corners (red,yellow,cyan,blue) and arrows toward sides (green,magenta) directions as seen from center - 200 each, up/down arrow chits 200 each, blank chits 400, distance chits 100 each (#1, #2, and #3), Jump chits 100

A Fleet tray displays fleet id chit (matching id chit and altitude chit are together on a fleet stand on the board) with space to place 9 movement chits on the top and on the player side (concealed) multiple places ship id chits plus type chits.

A Taskforce tray is the same except the matching fleet id chit would hold the place of a ship id chit in a Fleet tray instead of having its own fleet stand on the board. A taskforce becomes a fleet (gets its own fleet stand) during movement and taskforces collapse into fleets after combat.

When a ship is damaged or in combat, one of the matching ship id chits will be on a ship tray instead of with its match on a fleet tray.

Ship trays - display ship type and id on top with spaces to place ship component chits. Armor chits always face up, other component chits face down shuffled. On the player side concealed from opponents) are places to put the damaged unit chits (removed from the top) face up.

Players who have one or more scouts or basestars with undamaged sensors are entitled to see any concealed information for ships in that location. This may be done at the beginning of the Economic phase, the Move phase, and each combat round.

Economic phase:

Scrap - ships to be scrapped have id chits removed from fleet/taskforce trays and are placed on an empty ship tray if paired (multiple undamaged ships can share one tray) or on the ship tray already in use if the ship is damaged. An empty tray is used as a lid.

Maintain - money chits placed upside down

Repair - damage chits are placed on top of tray and money chits to pay for repairs on lower section. Trays stacked using an empty as a lid.

Hide - written orders - list of ship ids to hide

Build - written orders - type of ship and planet (might need to name the planets instead of just using map coordinates but would need 37 names)

Processing -
Scrapped ships and maintenance funds are returned to the common pools.
Repair money and damaged component chits are returned to the common pool.
Ships being hidden get a ship tray if needed and get the system component as a damage chit. Ship type marker is turned over to the blank side when a ship is dark/hidden.
New ship id chits and if needed new fleet trays and stands are drawn from common pools and used/positioned.

Where multiple players have fleets in the same locations, enemies must reveal themselves at this time (are you allied with this person, otherwise you are enemies).

Movement - Fleets are arranged into taskforces.

Fleets/Taskforces are ordered to move by placing - face down - direction and altitude arrows (or blanks) with a distance chit for the first vector if it is a slipstream move. All move orders for the taskforce must be able to be followed by all ships in the force. Slipstream cannot be used if any ship is not a cruiser or scout or has a damaged hyperdrive. Jumps can be made by terraformers and explorers only. Basestars cannot move. Etc.

When all move orders are ready the move segments are revealed and then processed one segment at a time. An encounter with an enemy at the end of any move segment will end movement for all involved in the encounter.

A terraformer with drive of 2 may warp (or jump) or stay put in segments 1 and 2 but is stationary in segments 3 and 4. A scout with a drive of 3 using slipstream in the first segment can still use a warp in each of the remaining 3 segments.

During movement placing an altitude marker next to the fleet stand instead of inserting it would make sense - insert the final altitude marker at end of movements.

Once all movement is concluded, combats begin.

Combat - rounds repeat with new odds and number of shots as long as possible combats remain

Enemies are determined/declared according to most recent alliance orders.

Combat takes place off board. (Not sure if an actual combat mat is something we should bother with.) For combat, all ships involved will use a ship tray - undamaged ships will begin with an empty tray holding only the ship id and type chits. Already damaged ships will have damaged component chits face up in the concealed shelf and exploded chits in matching number on the display shelf.

Players involved in combat (are or have enemy targets) total their weapons and shots. Enemies weapons totals are calculated (added together) for each.

Each player will fire all shots available to them, allocating them as desired among available targets. Combat orders are written by all then processed as simultaneous actions (roll to hit for each shot).

For damage allocation, component units are placed face down on the display shelf arranged as desired by the ship owner and then selected by the attacker. These selected chits are then placed face up on the concealed damages shelf and replaced on the upper shelf with an exploded chit. If the system component is damaged the ship goes dark and is out of combat. If all weapon and drive components are damaged the ship is destroyed.

When a ship is destroyed all chits for that ship (on both fleet tray and ship tray) are returned to common pools, as is the ship tray. A dark ship will return the chits on the display shelf (except ship type and id) to the common pool. Ship trays are used only in combat and to track damaged ships outside of combat.

If targets remain, a new combat round (new odds, etc) occurs. Combat continues until all combats in all locations are concluded.

Ecopolitical - planet colors are changed by terraformers and then alliance negotiations are made. Phase is concluded by each player writing desired alliance orders (list of other players each with a yes or a no). When enemies are determined/declared the 2 players involved are enemies if either has the other declared as NO and allies if both declared the other as YES.

When all players have recorded alliance orders a new turn begins with collecting points.

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Note on combat system -- it is possible to have a six-way combat where each player is allied with one or more other players but the alliances do not match up.

(So red might be allied with blue and green but is enemy to all others, blue is allied with red and yellow and cyan, green is allied with red and cyan and magenta, and so forth.)

This is why the enemies totals are used - you attack with all the power of the target's enemies and you defend with all the power of the attacker's enemies.

In virtual, a die with the correct number of sides is used (so if you need 23 of 37 you need 23 or less on a 37 sided die).

The idea of some sort of slide rule vs tables is tempting.

I envision the trays as being of "disposable cup" sort of thickness.

Component refinement - based on 200 potential ships with 100 ships in combat or damaged (if needed, some chits from destroyed ships could be freed for combat re-use before the scrap phase).

Fleet stands - each approx 1 inch long, will hold 2 chits side by side on edge, 50 each player color for 300 total

(alternate - 150 transparent stands that will also hold a flag and 300 colored flags if that would be cheaper)

Plastic Trays - keep in mind that we are talking of thermoformed plastic the same as used in retail packages - thicker than most that are found in a box of chocolates but not as thick as some found holding headphones, so calling them medium thickness might be appropriate.

Pockets in the trays need to be large enough to easily place and remove chits with enough depth to hold chits in place and allow stacking of trays that contain chits. Covers are just flat pieces of plastic or cardboard that would conceal the private section of the tray - for fleet trays the cover is just moved down an inch to expose move orders during movement.

Otherwise the lids would only be removed to allow a player with sensors in the space to see fleet details at beginning of economic and move phases and ship details at beginning of each combat round.

200 fleet trays with covers and 100 ship trays and covers

Each tray would have a public and a private section - simple cover shields of cardboard or plastic would be used to conceal the private sections. Except for the deep pockets the chits would lay flat in the pocket indentation.

Fleet trays
-- Public section just displays the fleet id chit - these chits are twinned, and the matching chit will EITHER be in a fleet stand on the board OR holding a ship place on another fleet tray
-- Private section is dual purpose - a single row with pockets for 7 movement chits with a main section with pockets for ship chits. Each ship area needs 3 pockets plus a deep "toss in" pocket (twin ship id chits, a shiptype chit, toss in pocket to hold up to 9 component chits if placed upright)

Ship trays are used only in combat - after combat any ships not destroyed or immediately scrapped have the id and damage chits moved to the pocket on the fleet tray after combat. Dark ships place the id chit face down.

Dark ships have one of their ship id chits turned over in the fleet tray. A non-dark ship will have both id chits turned face up - one of the id chits and any damage chits shift to a ship tray for combat.

Assumption: standard chit approx .4 inch or 320 per 8x10 sheet (16 columns x 20 rows) with an 8-1/2x14 sheet giving 17x28=476 -- for initial ballpark estimates are using 400 chits per sheet

Ship trays
-- Public section with spaces for 10 component chits (sitting flat) plus ship id and a ship type token that uses the space of 6 chits on a sheet (3 tall, 2 wide) and will stand upright in one of several narrow slot indents that run sideways - basestar slot leaves all 10 component slots available to the right of it, cruiser slot leaves all but one of them (9) to the right, scout/terraformer leaves 7, and explorer leaves 6
-- Private section - spaces for 9 chits (damaged components)
In combat, one of the ship id chits and any damage chits are moved to a ship tray. Chits for undamaged remaining components are placed in the public area with armor face up (armor is damaged first in combat) and other chits placed face down in any order the player wishes.

Combat damage is tracked by the attacker removing one chit per hit, armor first and then face down chits, and giving them to the owner who places them in the private section.

If all weapon and all drive units are damaged the ship is destroyed and removed from combat. If the system unit is damaged (but at least 1 weapon or drive remains) the ship goes dark and is removed from combat.

Ships going Dark or being destroyed that have any components still undamaged are set aside - the damaged component chits and the ship id return to the fleet tray (for destroyed ships both ship id chits on the fleet tray are turned face down, for dark ships one is face down and the other remains face up) making the ship tray and ship type token and any remaining component chits available for use again.

At the end of a combat all remaining ships return to their fleet trays in the same manner (ships not dark or destroyed have both ship id chits face up).

When combat leaves a fleet with no remaining ships in trays the fleet stand is tipped over - it remains tipped over until after builds are completed at which time it will either stand upright again (if it contains ships) or be removed if empty. Destroyed ships are removed from fleet trays as part of the scrap process.

Ship Tokens (for combat) - printed on both sides: 60? per sheet = 3 sheets total
Explorer 30
Terraformer 20
Scout 40
Cruiser 60
Basestar 20

Ship id chits (pairs) 200 pairs = 400 = 1 sheet
Fleet id chits (pairs) 200 pairs = 400 = 1 sheet

Component chits (3 sheets total)
Armor 300
Weapons 300
Drive 300
multifire 80
sensors 80
Terraforming 40
hyperdrive 100

Altitude, directions, and distance chits make up 5 sheets
Altitude chits 10 per level = 190 plus 10 per planet (same level as planet) = 370 for 560 total
Arrow chits - corners 400, sides 400, altitude up/down 400
Distances - (2-3) 120 each = 240
Jumps - see below

Planet color markers (each uses space of 4 chits, so 100 markers per page) 30 of each player color plus 20 gray = 200 making 2 sheets (or 200 assorted tiddlywink disks, whichever is cheaper)

Orientation markers - at the beginning of the game each player chooses an orientation for left and right board colors that they prefer when giving move orders (possible combos are green-magenta/yellow-blue/red-cyan or the reverse) so that a right arrow is the direction from board center toward the right color, left is toward the left color, and corner arrows are the other 4 board directions. Need 18 total orientation markers to choose from (6 of each paired set).

Top of fleet tray is always up for altitude arrows. Both direction pocket(s) left empty in a segment indicate no movement that segment and a blank (or facedown) chit is used to indicate maneuvers with the taskforce still moving in sync with its mother fleet at that time. If the slipstream (first) segment has a direction but no distance chit (or a blank distance chit) then it has a distance of 1 just like a warp (warp and jumps never use distanc chits).

Each player also needs a Shiptypes and planet values card - these 6 cards and the orientation markers and any other miscellany would all go on 1 sheet.

Planet owner markers (need almost 240) and 160 jump units take up 1 sheet.

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So, printed both sides, 3 sheets of diepunch cardstock - possibly extra thickness

Printed on 1 side, 14 sheets of diepunch cardstock (or 12 sheets plus 200 assorted tiddlywinks)

200 fleet trays and covers

100 ship trays and covers

1 game board (current estimate is 35x42 inches but might be able to trim that slightly)

300 fleet stands (50 each color) or 150 clear stands with 300 flags

1 pair percentage dice

Rulebook

Box

Optional but desired if will fit cost requirements:

Either a solar powered cheap calculator OR a basic sliderule thing to divide (convert fractions to percent rolls).

3 part dial for hyperspace jump calculations.

Trays with many pockets to store and keep sorted the chits after they are punched out of the cardstock sheets

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Does anyone have a crude idea for a cost estimate for any parts of this?

I expect the trays and lids would be slightly more expensive than equivalent sleeves of restaurant type cups and lids plus setup cost.

A cheap solar powered calculator might cost as much as $1.50 US based on my quick research last night.

You can see why I am looking for a design partner on this one - the last time I even thought about taking a game into physical production was back in 1978 (my Alchelemental game will remain just PnP and Vassal unless a game company were to show interest in making it).

My estimates (slightly better in the notes on my website and I will try to keep that part updated - see the Getting Physical link on the main page bottom right) are all based on the idea of having always sufficient/excessive chits in the pools.

Those notes also include more in-depth rules outline with the adjustments from the digital version specified.

I am sure that many things could be reduced. For example, ship and fleet trays could probably be cut by 25% - maybe 50% for ship trays. Component chit count may exceed actual need for "available chits in the pool" and so forth.

If the component count is reduced to "almost always enough" or "enough if everybody will please free up component chits from destroyed ships" and "undamaged untargetted ships do not need a ship tray and component chits and just use a ship marker and id chit" then additional/replacement counter sheets and trays could be made available for purchase as parts.

But, I lack artistic capability, funds, and available in-person playtesters. I am also doing design as a retirement hobby and have limited interest in exerting great effort beyond the design itself. Sharing credit and designer revenue with a partner makes the most sense to me right now.

I want to say thanks - again if I did it already - for the idea of having a slide rule (or circular rule) just using duplicate logarithmic scales to divide aka get combat target number from the fractional parts. Great idea!!

The idea of the ship trays is "assemble your miniatures for combat arena" with each tray being a miniature and the face down component tokens giving the "random element damaged" effect while avoiding "put chits in a bag to draw blindly" each time.

And I am babbling.....

Once again tho, is anyone interested in partnering on this design?

It might be nothing but a waste of our time, but I think it might be possible to make a physical version that would retail within correct price bracket for a large heavy game. If so, we would then consider how to actually get it into production.

I am pretty sure my attempt to find a design partner is an attempt to find a way to do it.

My personal preference is just recommend use a calculator or ap to divide but include the tables in the rules appendix.

This would satisfy my desire for simplicity (calc/ap) and completeness (tables for those who could not do the math).

But if the cost to make a simple dial type slide rule (a static and a rotating identical log scale) is low enough might add that or replace the tables with that.

Hyperspace jump dial to easily see result of offset values is another nice to have but not actually needed component.

Those are minor considerations. The other components (chits,marker,trays) and finding minimal acceptable count for the availability pools is current primary concern.

Optimizing fleet trays is needed. I am now sure that this can reduce to 120 and I suspect further reduction is possible.

Fleet id chits still need to be twinned but ship id chits do not (in a combat all ships in the location enter the combat arena as a single fleet - taskforces are just a movement phase grouping convenience - so no need to track which bus it rode to get there)

Since combat is a simplified miniature battle format (the only choice to make in combat is how to allocate shots among available targets) the idea there is to take the ship info (id,type,any existing damage) and expand it.

Chits are used to track damage in combat and on surviving ships until repaired. Current numbers are maximum possibly needed for 100 complete ships (just over half the maximum sustainable ship count) so are probably excessive by at least 25%.

I am working on further component count reductions and will update my notes on my website as they evolve.

http://thesingularitytrap.com/physical.txt

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Does anyone have any experience with something where a chit can be pushed into (and later pushed back out of) a hole in a larger item? How long before chip wears and will not hold in place, any methods in use to prevent such wear, or if they really ever hold in the first place?

They would know it was dividing since will recommend calculator or app as alternative, but just sticking an arrow where the 1 is does disguise it a bit for those who do not know that it is just subtracting one logarithm from another to divide.

Edit: Going with the "flat mini" or card idea in combat, with component chits sitting on the card once hits are inflicted,

Since notes now include crude prototype concept artwork anyone interested in keeping up should use
http://thesingularitytrap.com/concepts.php

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