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Collaboration on game designs

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Wed, 04/27/2005 - 15:56
markmist
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Joined: 12/31/1969

I know that we are all here to discuss our own game designs and help each other along the way in hopes of one day getting our design published.

However, has anyone thought about collaborating on a game design via this website? What I mean by that is that someone maybe has a mechanic idea that he doesn't know what to do with, or has a theme but no mechanic. Or maybe has both, but the game is in its very early stages.

This person would submit his rough idea to an area on the website, and any other designer could post with their interest and ideas. At some point it will become apparent where the design is going, and the original proposer can choose to colloborate with another designer of his choice.

I have no idea if this would be feasible or not, because once you reach a certain point, one designer may not agree with the other one about what to do, but I could imagine they could make some sort of agreement.

I read somewhere that 2 designers can be better than 1 (some of the most popular games had more than 1 designer), and it would be interested to work closely with some of the other designers here. However, long-distance co-designing via emails or chat would be an extreme challenge. Both designers would need great communication and similar work ethics.

What do you guys think? Good idea or bad idea?

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Wed, 04/27/2005 - 17:27
#1
Hedge-o-Matic
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Collaboration on game designs

Well, this has been suggested before, but I'm not sure if anything came of it.

Like all collaborations, game design would depend entirely on the collaborators to be effective. Not everyone can work that way. I for one, work almost continuously on a project until it's done, and for two people to do that requires a schedule that's very compatible. Waiting for a collaborator to get i their ideas would drive me crazy, because in the meantime i'd have ideas of my own, and would begin to feel constrained by the partnership, bound to wait when I could have gone ahead.

But group efforts can also have many benefits, and that's something that's hard to grasp if you've never done it. but the positives only come out if you're working with an equal or complementary designer. Just having a yes-man or someone who'se designs you don't really know will not help at all.

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Wed, 04/27/2005 - 17:46
#2
Rick-Holzgrafe
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Collaboration on game designs

Here at BGDF people are constantly posting their latest game ideas, rulesets, modifications, and inspirations for others to read and comment on. Lately I've found the chat room to be a wonderful place to kick around ideas with other designers. This is not the kind of close collaboration that markmist is talking about, but it gets me out of my shell and open to new ideas. My current game-in-progress now lists me as "designer," two other incredibly helpful BGDFers as "developers," and then adds credit for still more folks who have contributed to the game.

My point is that you don't need to collaborate closely in order to get the benefit of fresh viewpoints. Be open about your designs and progress, accept the input of others, and (of course) give back your own insights and ideas to others.

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Wed, 04/27/2005 - 17:51
#3
markmist
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Collaboration on game designs

Another thought I had was to indicate your level of speed you would like to progress at. For example, if you want someone to collaborate on a design and you require someone that will give the game constant attention, then you would set the speed at Fast or even Rocket.

A scale might look like this:

Rocket - daily collaborations / heavy use of chat
Fast - 4 to 5 collaborations per week / moderate use of chat
Medium - 2 to 3 collaborations per week / light use of chat
Slow - 1 collaboration per week / little or no chat
Glacier - 1 collaboration every other week / little or no chat

I think Glacier speed would be the absolute minimum to get anything accomplished. Once you set the speed you are kind of committing yourself to follow through. However, I don't think it has to be a hard and fast rule per say, just a way to match up designers who have similar time goals.

I also think you would have to agree to split the workload 50-50, or very near that. Any other arrangement probably would not work in the long run.

Any other considerations?

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Wed, 04/27/2005 - 19:38
#4
Rick-Holzgrafe
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Collaboration on game designs

markmist wrote:
I also think you would have to agree to split the workload 50-50, or very near that. Any other arrangement probably would not work in the long run.

Any other considerations?

Who builds the prototype and administers the playtests? Seems like that would be difficult to divide 50/50.

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Wed, 04/27/2005 - 23:55
#5
phpbbadmin
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Collaboration on game designs

We briefly discussed this in another thread, but on a broader scale.

http://www.bgdf.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1494&highli...

I feel design partnerships are very beneficial, especially if you and another designer happen to come up with the same or very similar ideas and you share a common goal for the game. The fact of the matter is, design partnerships occur on the BGDF all the time, but usually in an informal manner. I.E. Someone will post an idea in a journal or in the forums, then another person will add a lot of positive suggestions/comments. The designer will tweak and repost the changes. Then the commentor will make further comments until eventually the designer and the commentor have a closed feedback and development loop. Often times this results in a partnership relationship or at the very least the commentor becomes the 'sounding board' for the entire design project. My suggestion is to just create a journal with the idea you need/want help with, then see what happens. Good luck!

-Darke

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Thu, 04/28/2005 - 08:10
#6
FastLearner
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Collaboration on game designs

I've learned that, so far, such partnerships just aren't for me. I've tried it multiple times, including a partnership with an established designer that began a year ago, but I'm not good at subsuming my egotiscial desires and, while it's advanced, it's still moving very slowly.

It might have something to do with (a) feeling like I need to explain why my choice makes the most sense, and (b) wanting to hear a very convincing argument from the other person/people about whey they want a change.

I suspect it's a matter of temperment and willingness, in large part.

-- Matthew

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Thu, 04/28/2005 - 08:35
#7
Scurra
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Collaboration on game designs

I find game-design to be one of the most collaborative exercises I've ever encountered, simply because of the play-test process.
Every time a game comes to the table, it comes away changed as a result of discussion and debate (and sometimes shouting!)

But that's not the same as "co-designing" a game. For the record, "All for One" now lists Seth Jaffee as a co-designer, although we might argue about exactly how much input he had into the game compared to some of the other play-testers/developers. But having a co-designer listed means that we can at least blame each other for all the bits that don't work...

I imagine that sitting down with someone with the intent of designing a game together is unlikely to work. I imagine it's pretty similar to the reason why you see very few books with more than one author (unless they're books of individual essays!) In the end, you may well come up with some creative ideas but I suspect that everyone would want to take them in their own direction, and someone, somewhere would have to yield to that (Bruno Faidutti has written a piece about an experience like this which started from the same discussion but led to two games that are very different from one another. (link here)

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Thu, 04/28/2005 - 09:44
#8
markmist
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Collaboration on game designs

Darkehorse wrote:
We briefly discussed this in another thread, but on a broader scale.

http://www.bgdf.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1494&highli...

Thanks for the link. As a new person here, it can be a daunting task to search through thousands of posts to find what I am looking for. I guess that is what you are trying to accomplish with the wiki (it will cut down on duplicate questions).

Darkehorse wrote:

I feel design partnerships are very beneficial, especially if you and another designer happen to come up with the same or very similar ideas and you share a common goal for the game. The fact of the matter is, design partnerships occur on the BGDF all the time, but usually in an informal manner. I.E. Someone will post an idea in a journal or in the forums, then another person will add a lot of positive suggestions/comments. The designer will tweak and repost the changes. Then the commentor will make further comments until eventually the designer and the commentor have a closed feedback and development loop. Often times this results in a partnership relationship or at the very least the commentor becomes the 'sounding board' for the entire design project. My suggestion is to just create a journal with the idea you need/want help with, then see what happens. Good luck!

Thanks for explaining this. Your answer hit the nail on the head as far as what I might be looking for. If informal partnerships work, then I guess there is no reason to construct a formal way to co-design a game.

-Mark

-Darke

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Thu, 04/28/2005 - 17:21
#9
VeritasGames
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Collaboration on game designs

markmist wrote:
If informal partnerships work, then I guess there is no reason to construct a formal way to co-design a game.

Are you designing for fun or profit? If for profit, get it in writing. Who owns what IP? If you are designing for profit and you do 99% of the work and he does 1% of the work does he own 50% of the IP still? Iron these things out in advance, specifically noting what happens to the IP if you split up and go your separate ways.

If you are designing for fun, post ideas on a board and see who is like-minded and sociable.

I personally prefer a sort of benign dictatorial approach to game design with the option of being overruled by a vote from the masses. In my own design work, my playtesters work with me, and my rule is law -- unless they loudly and unanimously warn me about something, in which case I do a 180 and listen to them generally. Even when you are playing dictator, don't be so stupid or blind not to take a good idea when a playtester presents it to you. I take almost every idea seriously when I hear it even if I later discard it. Playtesters tend to be favorable to a guy with a clear vision about what he wants who nonetheless takes good suggestions. The more control you have, the more you have to show respect to those playtesters. They are your lifeblood for solo design.

I've had good experiences working as part of a team, but that's all they were -- experiences. Nothing has ever been produced that I've been involved in unless it had a strong-willed lead designer.

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