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Any games out there like Magic The Gathering

12 replies [Last post]
Tue, 09/13/2005 - 14:13
TrollBasher
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Joined: 12/31/1969

Hi all,

I'm still in the process of designing and playtesting my - might be collectable, might not be collectable card game - involving 2 players who take on the role of spell casters and do battle with each other. It sounds similiar to Magic, and I guess some of the mechanics are similar, but hey it's a card game and some mechanics are hard to change.

Anyway I was wondering if anyone could tell me of any card games that are similar to Magic out there, either those that came before it, or those that appeared afterwards.

The reason for this is simple - I keep making changes to my game to ensure its not like magic, but feel that I shouldn't really be making these changes - i.e. just because a game is released first shouldn't mean that if you also thought of something along similar lines that you shouldn't use it.

Example: I have creatures in my card game and some of them have flying ability. Now I find myself trying to remove the flying creatures from my game because magic has them - am I going to far?

Thanks for taking the time to read my ramblings.

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Tue, 09/13/2005 - 14:43
#1
OrlandoPat
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Tough question, good question

Quote:
Now I find myself trying to remove the flying creatures from my game because magic has them - am I going to far?

Um, yes.

You certainly want to make sure that you're not duplicating a game that's out there, but eliminating universal concepts (like "flying") isn't necessary.

The bigger question is whether the gameplay feels (or looks) like Magic. You really don't want people who are playing (or evaluating) the game to think "this is just like Magic".

Any fantasy-themed CCG will draw comparisons to MTG, and you definitely want to get away from them.

Quote:
just because a game is released first shouldn't mean that if you also thought of something along similar lines that you shouldn't use it

I disagree with you there. The first guy has a huge market advantage. Why would an MTG player switch to another similar game? They've already invested (both financially and emotionally) in MTG.

This is something of a pet peeve of mine, because I'm constantly getting submissions saying things like "better than Chess!" or "the next Trivial Pursuit". As a manufacturer, I really don't need to pay licensing fees for a knock-off. If I wanted to make a Trivial Pursuit knock-off, I certainly could do so on my own.

And, despite evidence to the contrary, the profit outlook for a knockoff is slim. People who didn't like the first game won't be willing to try another just like it, and people who did like the first game probably won't want to stop playing it.

Obviously, I don't know anything about your game. Just sounding off on the subject of knockoffs in general...[/url]

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Tue, 09/13/2005 - 15:58
#2
Stainer
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Any games out there like Magic The Gathering

Hi Orlando,

What profession are you in? You state people submit games to you?

It sounds as though you manufacture games. If other people already knew this, then I feel kinda silly asking, but never the less, it's good to have you around these boards!

Cool.

Rob

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Tue, 09/13/2005 - 17:03
#3
OrlandoPat
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Joined: 10/16/2008
Sorry about that

Sorry about that. I should have signed my post.

My name is Pat Matthews, owner/game designer/head bottle washer for Live Oak Games

We're not big enough to publish outside submissions at this point. Earlier this year, I toyed with doing an online-only "indie" style branch of the company but lacked the time to do it right.

So, please don't submit games to me. Send them to Z-man instead. His company is much bigger than mine.

I'm going to sign off now, before Z-man smacks me for telling you to send him unsolicited game submissions...

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Wed, 09/14/2005 - 11:29
#4
larienna
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Joined: 07/28/2008
Any games out there like Magic The Gathering

First, I have learned that in many games, especially card games, the following rule :

POPULAR GAME is generally not equal to GOOD/BALANCED GAME

So you might make a game better than magic, which is not really hard to do, but it might never sell pretty well.

I have just learn that "Duel Master" is classified as the 12th best card game and I know that his game is far more balanced than "Yu-gi-oh". But then again, "yu-gi-oh" is more popular and it has it's own manga. So "Duel Master" ( which is by the way a game that looks strangely close to "yu-gi-oh") did not succeed in kicking off "Yu-gi-oh".

For the theme that look close to MTG, I suggest you play the video game "Master of Magic". It is like civilisation in a fantasy world with spells from 5 colors where some of the spell names looks strangely the same than those in Magic.

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Wed, 09/14/2005 - 13:31
#5
TrekNoid
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Joined: 10/02/2009
Any games out there like Magic The Gathering

Quote:
So "Duel Master" ( which is by the way a game that looks strangely close to "yu-gi-oh") did not succeed in kicking off "Yu-gi-oh".

Duel Masters looks similar to Yu-Gi-Oh, but the mechanics are more like Magic (which shouldn't be a surprise, considering it's made by the same company as Magic).

As for the original question (elements shared by other collectible card games), removing 'all elements' that Magic uses is going to limit the game severely...

As OrlandoPat states, there's no real problem with elements like 'Flying' or 'Charging' or 'Giants', because they're fairly universal concepts... Yu-Gi-Oh has them... Duel Masters has them... Harry Potter had them... Marvel VS has them... HeroClix has them... Teen Titans CCG has them... Heck, even Munchkin has them :)

Concepts you might want to avoid, though, are game-specific concepts... Like Magic using Mana as a spell source... or the 'Tap' methodology of Magic... or the restricted Zone concept of Yu-Gi-Oh...

I'd recommend getting rule books for the bigger 'Spellcaster' games... Magic... Yu-Gi-Oh... Duel Masters...

Other games to look at, even through they're not 'Spellcaster' games, necessarily are: VS... Star Trek (the old Decipher version)... Star Wars... Pokemon...

(and I apologize if I left anyone's favorite off the list... )

Anything you find that's common among those games, is fair game... anything that's a specific mechanic to one of them, however, is gonna make people think you're trying to copy them... because they're the ones most people know.

TrekNoid

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Wed, 09/14/2005 - 18:11
#6
larienna
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Any games out there like Magic The Gathering

I just remember that there is another video game that look close to magic. It is called "Etherlord".

It is like a fusion of "heroes of might and magic" and "magic the gathering". Each hero is a player with it's set of 20 cards. The field game lack of balance but the battle game is not so bad ( with the patch ). Anyways, it is a good source of ideas.

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Thu, 09/15/2005 - 03:06
#7
TrollBasher
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Any games out there like Magic The Gathering

Thanks for all the great information - reading your comments has certainly put my mind at rest about some of my design concepts - I think I was just getting unneccesarily worried because my game is a card game with duelling wizards, and so is magic (sort of).

Larienna, I hadn't thought about computer games, but now that you've drawn my attention to them I'll certainly be checking them out. Thanks for that.

TrekNoid - Thanks for taking the time to write such an in depth post - you make a lot of sense.

OrlandoPat - Thanks for putting my mind at ease with your post. I know I have a good game and that I need to turn it into a great game - sticking to my original premise will allow me to do this.

Thanks again all. Bye for now.

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Fri, 09/16/2005 - 00:04
#8
Essence
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Any games out there like Magic The Gathering

Google for "Astral Tournament" and "Astral Masters". They're on-computer "CCGs" akin to Magic, but more intereting (IMHO) power-generating methods.

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Sat, 09/17/2005 - 04:04
#9
TrollBasher
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Any games out there like Magic The Gathering

Hi Essence,

Thanks for the info. I've just finished playing both games and agree that there power generation is much better, but such mana generation would be extremely cumbersome if it wasn't online, so I guess I'll have to defend Magic here a little.

Anyway, thanks again for the info.

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Sat, 09/17/2005 - 23:26
#10
Anonymous
IN REFERENCE TO YOUR QUESTION?

HAS ANYONE CREATED A TCG WITH A DICE ROLLING BOARD GAME YET? AND IF THEY HAVE, WHAT IS THE GAME CALLED?

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Tue, 09/20/2005 - 04:27
#11
Anonymous
Any games out there like Magic The Gathering

you say that flying, giant etc, is common, but one should refrain from using tapping and mana...

i agree with tapping, since wizards actually took patent on it or was it trademark...

but mana is a common word for magic power, so i would not feel bad about using that word.

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Thu, 09/22/2005 - 13:52
#12
TrekNoid
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Joined: 10/02/2009
Any games out there like Magic The Gathering

Quote:
but mana is a common word for magic power, so i would not feel bad about using that word

Oh, I wouldn't either... it's just that the OP was trying to avoid 'being like Magic', and if the primary method of building power is 'mana', then it's gonna be thought of as 'like Magic'... at least until people play it long enough to decide differently.

No problems with it... just in this circumstance, I'd avoid it because it's one of those things that might make someone reviewing it think of Magic.

TrekNoid

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