ccg combat system, looking for ideas

Designing a ruleset always comes down to the same question: what are you trying to model? Ask yourself what sort of differentiation you want to make between various types of monsters or characters. Decide what trade-offs you want the player to make when deploying them. Do you want to emphasize speed versus strength? Is range an important factor in the battles in your game world? Is armor important? Are you dealing with masses of troops or individuals?

Once you answer these questions, it should become clear what your stats will look like. Depending on how detailed you want to get, you can have stats for movement, range, damage, accuracy, armor, hits, magic, etc. but simple systems always play more quickly. M:tG's Power/Toughness system works well because it's simple and allows a fair range of combinations. Combined with special effects on the cards, they've been churning out interesting creatures for more than a decade.

My idea would involve playing a card from your hand that represents a type of attack (I recommend all cards in the set have a subsection that lists an attack type. This way the cards can also double as characters etc)

They could be types of sword strikes in the case of a Knight(not sure of the proper terms):

light strike (•) defensive
medium strike (••) balanced
heavy strike (•••) exposed

Each player has Sword tokens.

The •'s refer to a chart of accuracy. Your token would start on the outside of the chart and move towards the center for a direct hit (Equal to the number of •'s). Meanwhile your opponent plays cards that push your blade out of the Hit Zone. If ever the blades are in the same space on the Accuracy chart the attack is considered blocked.

ACCURACY CHART:

PLAYER 1 > MISS-MISS-INJURED-SEVERE-INJURED-MISS-MISS < Player 2

Some Maneuver cards used during combat:

Improved Dodge: Move opponent's attack 1 space.

Desperate Dodge: Move an opponent's token two spaces. That opponent may move one of your token's 1 space.

Players would lay face down a number of cards (maybe 3-5) that represent their planned attacks/maneuvers. Simultaneously players reveal one card of choice at a time. The players may then respond with any of their remaining face down cards (until all five cards are revealed or a player passes opting not to play any further cards)

The element of suprise and rapid attack would come as players reveal one at a time there attacks/maneuvers.

Here's an example of play:

Jason and John are battling, Knight vs Knight.

John is playing a Knight whose weapon of choice is a Heavy Mace (which does not allow john to play Light attacks/maneuvers). John chooses to play 2 Heavy Thrust attacks, one Desperate Dodge, and two Medium Slashes face down.

Jason's Knight is more agile and clever than John's but not as strong, allowing Jason to play an extra card face down but preventing him from using heavy attacks/maneuvers. Jason places face down three Medium Parrys, one Extended Slash, one Leaping Slash, and one Desperate Dodge.

ATTACK!

Players simultaneously choose and reveal their first cards, moving their swords from the outside of the accuracy chart towards the center.

John chooses a Heavy Thrust Attack(•••) Putting his sword token on the Injured Space.
Jason reveals an Extended Slash(•••, Your opponent may gain •) Putting Jason's attack also on an Injured Space but also allowing John to move his token to the Severe space.

Next the players look at their cards searching for a maneuver card to manipulate their current attacks or their opponent's.

John having the best position for his sword looks for a card to protect his knight from harm.

More to come....I think yo ucan see where I'm going with this....but bare with me...I'm brainstorming this on the spot so its rough.

(Also worried that this may be similiar to Highlander??? I can't remember how that game works...)

are you going to keep track of things with chits for HP, or do fighters/creatures become fully healed after each encounter? For ease of management, might I suggest that (especially with a CCG) simple = better? Too many chips/chits/lifestones/etc. and you might as well make it a board game. Or a CCG with a board.

What scale of fighting are we talking about as well? Mano-a-mano? Squad? Army?

What other things will be occuring in the game that would make other types of stats useful?

Are you adverse to numbers in general or just the Attack / Defense stats that pervade the genre?

My favorite combat system from any game I've ever played was from Rage from White Wolf. The combat system was very simple and fun. Basically you had your combat deck with all sorts of attacks and other events, and a hand of about 5 cards.

When you entered combat, you'd draw your 5 cards, and then when both players were ready, they slapped down a card at the same time. It could be an attack or defense card or whatever, and both effects were applied. It worked good cause you didn't take turns attacking or defending. It also worked well with multiple combatants, cause you would just throw down cards at whatever opponent you wanted.

The cards were basically a power and damage rating, and extra rules for other effects. Power meant that a character had to have X amount of power to play that card, and the damage is how much was caused if the attack hit.

Other effects that were used were cards that allowed you to pick up more cards, equipment that allows you to use more than 1 card per attack, there were dodges and blocks, and a feint card, which allowed you to dodge an attack and play another card with it (you'd throw down two cards).

Just thought I'd throw this one out there cause it was a very intense combat system and it was very fun as well.

How about making it simple? Have the individual forces in each group have one of two possitions: Front Line or Flank. The arangement would be as such-

<br />
 ___   ___<br />
|   | |   |<br />
|   | |   | -Front Line<br />
 ---   ---<br />
 ___   ___<br />
|   | |   |<br />
|   | |   | -Flank<br />
 ---   ---<br />

Front line units are considered to be in Offensive mode, while the flank is Defensive. These units can be swapped at a fixed point in each player's turn (Either the begining or the end, depending on what would best suit your game).

A group of cards that are grouped together such as those above constitute a Unit, which may gain special benefits of their own, such as the Roman "Turtle" made from the soldier's shields.

To me that combat seems a little static. Rather 'point and shoot'. Instead of choosing who you attack, I would have the players choose to "Advance a Force". The defending player must then choose to intercept the army or let it rampage through it's own ranks.

As far as winning, why not allow each army to have a "General" who directs the army (ies). If the general dies, then the game is over. The army falling into chaos will simply disperse itself.

I do like the primary and secondary attacks, and defense as a concept, though you may want to change it to Attack, Defence, and Preparation. The preparation seems to cover all the functions of that attribute. I can definately see an archer unit using this system, as well as regular foot troops.

Archer

Attack: 5
Preparation: 3
Defense: 5

[Ranged]

Archers cannot be dealt
damage by an intercepting
opponent, unless that opponent
is also a ranged combatant.
__________________

Pikeman

Attack: 4
Preparation: 4 (6)
Defense: 4

Soldier

Pikemen gain +2 Preparation
when intercepting Cavalry.

Basically the archers are purely offensive, made to rain arrows upon their enemies. If they are directly engaged, though, they can fall back on shortswords and daggers, but in that they are not very proficient.

The Pikemen are not very proficient attackers, though they are excellent for intercepting oncoming opponents, especially cavalry.

You'd need a theme that has many different representable elements and is easily expandable. The elements need to have enough difference from each other to justify their existence, plus the cards have to be visually interesting and inspire collection. That's why combat, and particularly fantasy/sci-fi combat, is especially well-suited for the genre. They're both infinitely expandable and fun to look at.

So what non-combat genre fits? Sports? Battle of the Bands? Horror? There are many possibilities. Push the limits of the genre. CCGs don't need to be two players holding a deck of cards, directly battling with each other.

~Josh

With the possible exception of Horror, it seems that conflict is a key element in the CCG genre. I could see a multiplayer game for Horror where the object is to simply survive, though 'cheating' would be easy considering you just take the more deadly foes out of your deck. Perhaps a set-up could be achieved where you have both cards to help yourself survive/escape as well as cards to impede/threaten your opponents.

...then again you're still trying to best an opponent. You've stumbled onto a difficult concept. :P