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CCG mechanic idea...

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Anonymous

I like to design CCG's and recently had an idea that I think would yield a very different flavor of gameplay from what we are mostly used to. It's traditional to make one of the conditions under which you loose in a CCG be when you run out of cards, but what if this was taken even further? What if the victory condition for the game was to return all of your cards to your deck?

At the beggining of the game you would have to draw cards and place resources, to build up your system for returning cards to your deck. Of course, as in almost every game, it is an advantage to have more cards at your disposal, but this will only make your job more difficult later on. Also, this would be an interesting way to keep the game close, if damage often came in the form of forcing card draw, then the damaged party would get a boost from it.

I've toyed with several ideas for a setting. One is a fantasy story; you would play as an Elemental lord trying to restore natural ballance to your land while countering a threat from without. Total balance is a state of having no cards in your hand or disgaurd pile.

What do you think? This is still only a concept, but I think there may be somethign to it. Am I out to luch?

larienna
larienna's picture
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Joined: 07/28/2008
Weird

Definitely weird. Returning all your cards in your deck is impossible, if you need ressources on the table to accomplish your goal. If you are returning your opponent's card in his deck, it is possible. But this will somewhat mean that you have destroyed all card on table and in hands. The only difference is that he can always redraw his lost card. Which can make him more dangerous.

This also mean that you must make sure that all cards can be destroyed even those in hands. since the player will never play/discard his last card from his hand to lose the game. If you do it this way, there is also the fact that you might need to reshuffle the cards each time the deck gain card. Of you can set in the rules that there is always a reshuffle phase before the draw phase.

You might also need to use a low number of card in your deck. Making deck of 60 cards can make it more difficult. Maybe 20 to 30 cards should be OK.

There is also the fact that if the player only concentrate on returning his own card in his deck, it becommes some kind of solitaire game with little interference between players since they do not need to confront other each other to win. This is the bug of a few CCG like the old "star trek" and "Wizard Eye".

Anonymous
Re: Weird

Larienna wrote:
Definitely weird. Returning all your cards in your deck is impossible, if you need ressources on the table to accomplish your goal. If you are returning your opponent's card in his deck, it is possible. But this will somewhat mean that you have destroyed all card on table and in hands. The only difference is that he can always redraw his lost card. Which can make him more dangerous.

There is also the fact that if the player only concentrate on returning his own card in his deck, it becommes some kind of solitaire game with little interference between players since they do not need to confront other each other to win. This is the bug of a few CCG like the old "star trek" and "Wizard Eye".

Well, these are good objections, and thank you for your response, but I think I could get around at least some of the problems you posed. Here is how I envisioned it working:

When you begin the game, you already have a hand of ~5 cards, and returning them to your deck won't be easy, so you can't score some kind of instant win. Then, your oponent will try to make you draw more cards, and also make you disgaurd cards (disgaurded cards would be harder to return to your deck than non- disgaurded ones).

To stop your oponent, and also to score damage against him, you would need to lay out resources, and use them to play other cards. Think of it this way, each resource is like a land in magic, only you can tap it to return it to the bottom of your deck. That way the rescources can be the first in and last out. The other cards provide you with ways to attack your oponent (damage is card draw!) and ways of getting your own cards off the table and back into your deck or your hand.

Now, all this isn't to say that this is a good idea (after all, that's what I'm here to find out), but I just wanted to let you know I wasn't so poorly thought out as your post seemed to assume.

dete
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Joined: 12/31/1969
CCG mechanic idea...

Card = various virus

i'm thinking your attacked by a bunch of
viruses so you want to get rid of them.
Clean your system.

But a virus can allow you to do some damage to the
opponent. Even though it hurts you too.

Anonymous
CCG mechanic idea...

Yea, the virus idea sounds like a good one. I could call it "System." Of course I would have to ignore biology, but what the heck? (my Dad is a biologist, so I think I'd here it for that) Also, cards as viruses could make for some interesting new mechanics, like replication or invasion.

dete
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Joined: 12/31/1969
CCG mechanic idea...

Virus could also be for a computer, or way in the
future about some mutating plague....

BUT

someone posted that they had to do a
bio project on making a board game of
human digestive system,

that kind of "Fantastic Voyage"
"Inner Space"

and Micro naughts type stuff is very interesting to me.

There is a book out that puts a twist on the
whole genre, instead of exploring a human body
the micro-naughts have to go into an alien body
and deal with alien cells.

anyways neato neato

chowdah
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Joined: 12/31/1969
CCG mechanic idea...

Suggestion on the mechanics side of things.

Your core game-win concept is to get all your cards "back into the deck", but as a few have pointed out, getting this mechanic to work is very tricky. Also (IMO) feel that games that have a win-condition based mostly on a players own resouces (in this case their deck) often have little interaction between the players (imagine MtG when you have to do 20 damage to yourself to win).

Here is a slight change to the mechanic - the goal is to "empty" your deck into a "discard" pile - basically you want to move all your cards from pile A to pile B. Now the trick is you have cards in play that you also have to move into pile B. Also your opponent can make cards move from B to A. The game-win and play mechanic of the game becomes about the transfering of your cards, your opponents cards and related systems.

Its not a huge divergence from your initial mechanic but it offers a little more variation and options - as well as promotes more interaction between players. To further promote interaction possibly include some sort of mechanic that prevents a player from being able to move all their cares from A to B *without* dealign with the other player in some way.

There are 2 hurdles to overcome though (IMO applies to your origianl mechanic as well). The first being game length, you could end up with an issue like War has (normal 52 playing card game) where the game can go on indefinetly - some sort of "limiter" needs to be introduced.

The second is the random nature of decks - as this a very card-centric game (ie so far there is no aspect outside fo the cards, such a player Hit Points, ect) a bad shuffle can lead to a players demise or an early run-away game. IMO games where the players are head to head right to the end are much better than one player so far in the lead early on the other has no chance.

Just some thoughts.

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