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Discouragement?

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Tue, 07/19/2005 - 11:00

kungfugeek

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So what do you do when you can't help thinking things like, "Who am I kidding? I'll never get published." And, "Aw, come on, I don't really know what I'm doing." And, "Actually, this game I've been working on for 5 years really sucks."

I've been going through that lately. Keep on trying to make my games better but keep on thinking that I'm really just wasting time and nothing will ever come of my designs anyway.

What do you guys do when that happens?

Wasn't sure where to post this. Sorry if it's the wrong thread. Oh, and I'll try to respond but I'm pretty busy today.

Thanks.

Tue, 07/19/2005 - 11:12

#1

Shrike

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Discouragement?

Take a break. No, really, that's what I do. Just find something else to do for awhile, or at the very least work on another game for awhile. I guess the other thing that you have to look at is this, does it really matter if you get published? Now I know that most of us really want to, for one reason or another, but as long as we have fun doing the designing/development/playing, does it really matter? Obviously that is a personal question, some REALLY want to get published, no matter what, others (like me) started that way but as the fire cooled we saw that while it would be nice, for the bragging rights at the least, it isn't the end all be all, I just want to make fun games now (although getting published is still a goal, it's not THE goal) And then there are others I presume that don't give a hoot if they ever make it past the prototype that they and their friends can play on a Sat night. Chin up, take a break, get yourself situated and come back to it, that's my advice anyways, know why you're doing all of this and try to enjoy it, if you ever find that you don't enjoy it anymore...... (take a longer break AND then come back! ^_^)

Shrike

Tue, 07/19/2005 - 12:11

#2

kungfugeek

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Discouragement?

Thanks, Shrike. Maybe I do need to take a break, and remind myself why I'm doing this.

I think my goal is just to make a really good game. That would be its own reward. Whether it gets published is secondary. Doing the design is probably the most fun for me; building the prototype is work; playtesting can feel more like work but the reward can be more than worth it. Usually by the time my games get to the prototype stage, though, they're recieved more or less postively. I don't think I've made any real stinkers yet (they usually die before the playtest stage), but still haven't gotten any of them to level I want them to be.

I always compare my designs to the SDJ winners and my own favorite published games. Trying to get that combination of simple mechanics, subtle and varied strategic options, right amount of tension and game length and all that.

Is it a bad idea compare your games to SDJ winners? Am I just being unrealistic?

Tue, 07/19/2005 - 12:20

#3

Verseboy

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Joined: 12/31/1969

Discouragement?

I have a movie script that has gone through numerous incarnations since 1985. It has lots to recommend it, but it still has problems. At various times I have submitted it to agencies, production companies, and contests to no avail. My son thinks it's fairly pathetic that I could work for 20 years on something and still have nothing to show for it. I know something is there, though, and I just have to figure out how to get it out. I get discouraged sometimes, but never to the point of chucking it all. Of course, I don't work on the script at the exclusion of other things, and lately the other things have been at the fore.

It's hard to know what to say. You may be right: You don't know what you're doing, and your game stinks. On the other hand, you may need to move on to something else for awhile. That may provide the spark or the experience to fix what ails your present design.

Then there's the matter of why you're doing this. As for me, I want to be published. I want the satisfaction that comes from seeing my name on a box and on a royalty check, however small. If that doesn't happen, though, I have 3 games here that people ask me to bring when they invite me over. I have fun with my friends and the satisfaction of knowing that my creations are responsible. Plus, I've enjoyed the process of creation. I have fun when I work on my games. If that's all that comes from it, so be it. I won't have realized one goal, but I will have realized a couple others along the way.

If the only motivation you have is to be published, it may be a good time to give it up. But if the process excites you, then step back, recharge, and go after it again, with the same game or something else.

Good luck to you, whatever you do.

Steve

Tue, 07/19/2005 - 12:30

#4

Shrike

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Joined: 08/26/2010

Discouragement?

Quote:

Is it a bad idea compare your games to SDJ winners? Am I just being unrealistic?

I don't think it's bad per se, but you have to remember, not every game done by the SDJ winner is of the same quality, or they would win for every game they've done. There will always be those shining stars of the perfect game someone did that we can reach for, hopefully, we'll get one, just one game to that level someday. But we might not. We need that goal to reach for, and some folks will just never get that good, that's life. To quote The Incredibles.. "...and when everyone is super, NO ONE will be." (btw, I love the social commentary in that "childrens movie", I wish more folks would understand it)

Just make the best game you can, using all of the tools you have, some will be good, a few great. The rest, we learn from.

A philosophical feeling bird... ^_^

Shrike

Tue, 07/19/2005 - 13:12

#5

Anonymous

Discouragement?

Great thread, though it probably should have gone into the general forum.

Verseboy wrote:

My son thinks it's fairly pathetic that I could work for 20 years on something and still have nothing to show for it.

The reason that so many movies sequels stink is that the writers dedicate themselves to working on the script for the original movie for years while they try to get it made. Then it happens, they get it made and it's a huge hit. The studios want a sequel fast and it's rushed through to production.

I agree that it can be a long and frustrating road to getting that first game published (or enough games published so that publishers look at you with something other than suspicion). If you really want to get published, then take every opportunity to get your name and games out there. Submit them to publishers and see what they say.

Submit your games to contests as much as you can. Publishers watch them to see who's up and coming as and what games are out there in the hobby sector. Just don't submit a game to a publisher and then submit it to a contest!

I don't personally care if I ever get published, for me the games are their own reward. I just like to make games that my friends and family enjoy playing. I want to submit them to publishers because I think that others would enjoy them as well, but if they don't get published, then no big deal.

Tue, 07/19/2005 - 18:53

#6

Dralius

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Discouragement?

I would suggest focusing on the important part of designing games and i don't think that is getting paid. We are entertainers like playwrights we create something for an audience to enjoy or experience that is intended to enrich their lives. The act of creation is worth it as long as it is fulfilling to you. Anything else is just gravy.

Tue, 07/19/2005 - 22:55

#7

Anonymous

Discouragement?

I just decided tthat the ones that turned down my game are only paving the path more clear for me.

I continue pitching it to others as well as working closer and closer at doing self publishing.

I am almost at a complete position where I have all stuff in place to do self publishing with parts, boxes and artwork done. Using one distributor with a standing order of 600 games and my own network and self presentation to companies , stores, and promotionals ready. Hoping to launch 4 by Christmas all along the same line for kids instead of pitching one game at a time to a company maybe do it with a few under my belt with self publishing them.

Then again I am new and doing this more as a business as I enjoy business aspect of all commerce rather than the games themselves which is also fun. I am an adreline junkie for the thrill of the sale though.

Thats just me.

Tue, 07/19/2005 - 23:56

#8

FastLearner

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Joined: 12/31/1969

Discouragement?

I agree that for me, there's great creative and artistic satisfaction. However, authors like to be read, playwrights like to have their work performed, etc. The more people who enjoy my games, eventually, the better. I don't create for myself.

On feeling discouraged, I completely understand. Sometimes it feels like I'm fooling myself. But then I playtest some of my better designs, and people actually have fun, and my faith is restored.

I recommend finding more people to play your games with, perhaps at a convention or something similar. Some positive feedback helps a ton, I find, even mixed with the negative.

-- Matthew

Wed, 07/20/2005 - 00:16

#9

JackDarwid

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Joined: 12/31/1969

Discouragement?

Agreed.

I must say that in this board/card game business, it is hard for a beginner to make his/her game published because of the risk (if you self-published) or the chance (there are tons of new board/card games every months !). So the first main goal shoud be : make a good game. To make a good game I believe just like sports : the more you train the more experienced you'll be, and sometimes it takes time.
That's what I do. IMHO I make a lot of improvements from game one to game two.

So, if we do this because we love games, and we do our best, I think God will do the rest (I really like this phrase :). If we reach a point where our game is good, someone outthere (I really believe this) will notice us.
So that's where I am, for the love of games, I work hard to make my games and just hope for the best. If the game (at last) can be published, I will really happy.
If not, well, someone said something like 'I find myself think about the game even when I'm not playing it', or "The game was fun. I'm glad to have a solitaire game that is portable and fun." or 'it is a work of love' (last quote by Peter The Rat in BGDF here via BGG, and that's right Peter !) is what I got, and I'm happy about that. They can enjoy my games, and I can enjoy the process.

Wed, 07/20/2005 - 00:57

#10

dete

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Joined: 12/31/1969

Discouragement?

ok everybody group hug.
(just look at my avatar, do you really wanna hug me? hehehe)

if we were all at a restaurant right now, I'd offer a toast.

thanx for the help, thanx for the inspiration, thanx for listening,
thanx for writing back, thanx for being a friend.

dete

Wed, 07/20/2005 - 17:07

#11

kungfugeek

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Discouragement?

I second that. Thanks.

Weird how things work out. Since I started this thread, I've been reinspired to make nice, big changes on my oldest design and start a new design (dogs diggin' for bones -- can't go wrong!).

Thanks for the encouragement.

Wed, 07/20/2005 - 18:32

#12

comport9

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Joined: 12/31/1969

Discouragement?

Just gotta remind yourself that it's the JOURNEY, not the destination, that you're enjoying.

Basicly, if you enjoy the creative process, then who cares if it pans out financially in the end?

Wed, 07/20/2005 - 18:43

#13

Verseboy

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Joined: 12/31/1969

Discouragement?

comport9 wrote:

Just gotta remind yourself that it's the JOURNEY, not the destination, that you're enjoying.

Good advice. I still have a destination in mind, but I'm enjoying the journey. If I stop enjoying it, I suspect I'll forget about the destination.

Steve

Wed, 07/20/2005 - 18:49

#14

FastLearner

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Joined: 12/31/1969

Discouragement?

I think that just because you enjoy something doesn't mean you shouldn't want to make money from it. In fact, just the opposite: doesn't everyone want work that they enjoy and are paid for? All of the work I've done in the last 15 years (post college and such) has been work that I've loved.

Loving it is alone a very nice thing. Loving it and getting paid for it is the ideal, though. I'm all for shooting for it, recognizing when I don't have it, and working towards it. I fully expect that not only will my game design pay for itself, but it will become a real money-maker for me. I don't expect it to a full time job (heck, I'd get bored, if nothing else), but I do expect it to eventually become at least 33% of my income.

And I expect if for many of you, too. Now get out there and kick some ass!

-- Matthew

Wed, 07/20/2005 - 18:56

#15

Anonymous

Discouragement?

I personaly only do this as a past time and not for the CASH.....

BUT

The CASH is NICE!!!!

I am working on 4 games now and trying to have them self published ready for XMas '05 preferably. I am also working with 2 other people here on another game in which we all come different parts of the world which makes it more fun and challenging as well.

You have to enjoy doing it and spending some time learning from those who have done alot longer and not be afraid to ask dumb questions. Thats my job to ask those and I am not looking to be unemployed from it anytime soon.

I have been working on my game to actually now turned into a point where went from a pasttime with my children to now setting it up as a business for them and hoping the profits (if any) will pay for their college tuition. They have 7 years yet so hopefully.

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