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Get the theme right

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Johan
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Hello

A question has popped up. How much work do you have to do on the background and how correct does it have to be.

Reason:
Normally I don't react to theme of the games (I accept any game and any background story) but the theme to the game Halmstad rely made me pissed (sorry Mitchell (alias Challengers), deep down I don’t think that you did anything wrong). My feeling was "Why did he not do any more checks on the background before he wrote this theme instead just taking something that just looked cool?".
In Halmstad he took Nisse that is one of the Swedish names for the Scandinavian gnome (it is also a nickname for the name Nils) and just put him out of his context. Nisse/gnomes are a hot-tempered figure that never forgets but also has a big hart. He is just one of the characters that live in the deep forests and around farms and appears in several folklore stories (I grow up with those and those stories are a part of me).

This rely made me think. If I got this reaction (and feelings) from something that was as innocent as this was, what can themes that are rely wrong do to peoples?

I used to not care about the details in my games (a good mechanism with a cool story could be enough (I also use a lot of fantasy and SF)). I went back to some of the games and there was a lot of background work I had to do to get everything right (I have use Egyptian signs out of there context, historical events without giving the right dates, persons or outcome and several other details).
Since recognition is one thing that makes a theme feel right: This is one of the things that make a theme go from the bottom to the top (and the game gets a higher value).

// Johan

p.s. I normally laugh at those Tolkin and WWII nerds. Now I was one of them.

Rick-Holzgrafe
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Get the theme right

It probably depends on each person's individual reaction. Ticket to Ride's board has incorrect geography, and some people are upset by it. But it sells like hotcakes anyway!

I'd say that getting your research right is worthwhile up to a point. Stop researching (don't add more details) when it stops enhancing the game; and feel free to bend the facts if adhering to the facts would degrade the playing quality of the game.

Hedge-o-Matic
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Get the theme right

I agree. After all, nobody slapped their forehead with disgust when they realized that the property names in Monopoly weren't geographically correct in relation to their real Atlanta counterparts.

Johan
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Get the theme right

Both yes and no.

None of the games above has elements of religion or history involved.

Religion and history is two things that you have to get right.

// Johan

Kreitler
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Get the theme right

If your game is a parody, you can get away with a lot. I'm working on a game called "1491" which deals with explorers, but it's tongue-in-cheek, and you can find everyone from Christopher Columbus to Amelia Earhart in the game. In this case, getting the history wrong (on purpose) is supposed to help make the game funny.

Rick-Holzgrafe
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Get the theme right

I would agree that getting history correct isn't always an issue. If you are going to re-fight the Battle of Waterloo, you don't want Wellington to have a guaranteed win, or there'd be no point in playing.

Another example: Polynesian explorers did not really spread throughout the South Pacific in the manner shown in Tongiaki. The author of Tongiaki was an expert in that subject before he turned to game design; but he rightly gave priority to the game and not the history.

Johan may have a point concerning religion. Get the tenets of any major religion wrong, or represent one without the respect its adherents feel it deserves, and you may have a lot of upset people who won't like or buy your game.

But it's worth remembering that it's nearly impossible to say "Nice weather we're having" without upsetting somebody. Make a game about a religion, however accurate and respectful, and some folks will be upset that you "trivialized" their faith by turning it into a game, while others will be upset that you're promoting a religion that differs from their own.

You can't please everybody. Make good games with as much theme integrity as they can hold without becoming worse games than they need to be. Accept that some people won't like the result. I don't see any better course than that.

Hambone
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Get the theme right

The problem may be that gamers tend to agressively search for errors due to their competetive nature. I seem to proof read everything I see, and find every scenario that is not covered by the rule book. We also drift towards games with a theme we like, and we can immerse ourselves in the themes we enjoy. The designer doesn't have a chance against a hoard of passionate, nerdy "experts."

The same reason movies are never as good as the book.

jwarrend
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Joined: 08/03/2008
Get the theme right

Rick-Holzgrafe wrote:
I would agree that getting history correct isn't always an issue. If you are going to re-fight the Battle of Waterloo, you don't want Wellington to have a guaranteed win, or there'd be no point in playing.

There's a big "yeah, but" here. History buffs often care about accuracy more than playability, or perhaps rather they won't care about playability if the accuracy isn't there. There is a longstanding complaint from a few members of the rec.games.board community that the German plane miniatures in Axis and Allies are the wrong kind of plane. To which I say "who cares?", but for someone who really cares about accuracy, it's a serious setback.

I think the bigger target to shoot for is historical plausibility. You shouldn't allow for situations that couldn't have happened historically. For example, a game where the British bribe George Washington not to fight, or something like that. You shouldn't do this kind of thing unless you make it very clear that you're deliberately playing fast and loose with history to achieve some other goal (satire, e.g.). If you're claiming to make a historically-based game, you have to at least be plausible.

Another shortcoming can be putting the emphasis in the wrong place. There's a game called "Atilla" that has been criticized because it's a game of political jockeying, which seems out of place in a game about the bloodthirsty huns. So sometimes, slapping on a historical theme where it doesn't belong can be a bad move.

Quote:

Johan may have a point concerning religion. Get the tenets of any major religion wrong, or represent one without the respect its adherents feel it deserves, and you may have a lot of upset people who won't like or buy your game.

But it's worth remembering that it's nearly impossible to say "Nice weather we're having" without upsetting somebody. Make a game about a religion, however accurate and respectful, and some folks will be upset that you "trivialized" their faith by turning it into a game, while others will be upset that you're promoting a religion that differs from their own.

I would go one further than Rick, and recommend that one should not design games about a religion that one is not an adherent of. Why? Because I think that being accurate and respectful will be very difficult to achieve if you don't care very deeply about the belief system you're attempting to simulate. It could come across like you're pandering to a particular demographic just to rack up game sales.

I would also call in general for a more respectful portrayal of religious believers in games. It's common at a societal level to think that it's ok to take cheap shots at believers, and I've seen that reflected in games and gamers. Negative stereotypes about believers abound, but since there are a lot of gamers who are believers, choosing not to incorporate these stereotypes into one's games would be a good move.

But in a way, incorrectly handling the tenets of a particular faith would be seen as almost as bad, if not worse, and so I'd advocate proceeding with extreme caution into those waters.

Just my thoughts.

-Jeff

Scurra
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Get the theme right

jwarrend wrote:
Rick-Holzgrafe wrote:
I would agree that getting history correct isn't always an issue. If you are going to re-fight the Battle of Waterloo, you don't want Wellington to have a guaranteed win, or there'd be no point in playing.

There's a big "yeah, but" here. History buffs often care about accuracy more than playability, or perhaps rather they won't care about playability if the accuracy isn't there.

"Waterloo" is a really bad example of this anyway, since it seems fairly evident that Wellington didn't have a cat-in-hell's chance of winning, and any "rules-based" system illustrates this! To put it in wildly over-simplified game terms, Napoleon had to roll double-six three times in a row to lose - and he did :-))

Jeff's point about "plausibility" is more important. There's a huge gulf between a game based on Waterloo which allows Napoleon to win, and something like Heroscape in which Vikings can fight Samurai.

One note in passing: one of the things I love about Knizia's Lord of the Rings game is that Sauron should win a lot of the time because that's how the story is designed (and once a group starts winning a lot, they need to make it harder for themselves!) It's only because the "good guys" take the most ludicrous long-shot imaginable that they even have a shot at winning - and even then it doesn't work in the way they imagined...
Hence, sometimes, "historical plausibility" requires a Waterloo game in which Napoleon generally wins!

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