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Graphic Design Fees??? How much??? Desperate to know.

8 replies [Last post]
Fri, 11/19/2004 - 12:07
Anonymous

I had posted this question within another (Profits from Boardgames?), but I think it might have gotten lost within the other subject, so forgive the repost.

I am beginning to put myself out there in the boardgame community as a graphic designer / illustrator, but really have no idea what traditionally has been a general fair rate for design fees for brands that have already published and are looking for at least a 10k run. I understand there are two components – graphic design and illustration that need to be dealt with so I'll break this question down in 2 parts.

What kind of range do you think there might be for graphic design fees when the designer also does the illustration?

And when there is an illustrator as well, how much should the graphic designer generally get working with an illustrator?

Both questions assume graphic design for a board, box design, a 20pg or so rule book, tiles and cards.

I'm really desperate to know, so if you come across this, I'd REALLY love any input that you have.

thanks so much, you all are great!

mike

btw, a general feel for what I do if you are interested:
http://www.michaeldoyle.com/PRege/LaCiudad.html

and yet unfinished, but you can be the first to see:
http://www.michaeldoyle.com/AoM_Flash/AoM2.html

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Fri, 11/19/2004 - 12:28
#1
Anonymous
Nice work....

I can't help you at all with your question, but wow, that's a nice looking PR.

Do you know yet how much you're going to charge for it?

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Fri, 11/19/2004 - 14:29
#2
Johan
Johan's picture
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Joined: 10/05/2008
Graphic Design Fees??? How much??? Desperate to know.

I have a friend that doing some Music CD-covers and she got 10-15% if the CD sells more then 10.000. Otherwise she gets nothing. She has at least 5 more jobs like this in the pipeline, all from recommendations. This is not her daytime job but she is semi-professional.
I don't know if this will help you.

// Johan

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Fri, 11/19/2004 - 14:52
#3
Anonymous
Beautiful Work

Mike,

I'd also seen the PR work before from the links on boardgamegeek and it is certainly impressive. If only I had the money to start my own game company, I'd certainly consider working with you.

While, I do not have concrete information on what you are asking about, but I would note that designer royalties are typically based on a % of successful sales. Presumably graphic and art would typically be paid up front, and a company would want to retain rights for at least a certain time period (if not forever) for the purposes of reprinting. I would expect that this means that fees are somewhat less dependant on print run size, and more of a simple stipulated sum. Obviously companies with larger print runs would at least have more money to invest in this category of course. One presumes that a game like Blue Moon had a significantly higher art investment than a game like Mall World. At least, one would hope!

My counter question is how much time do you anticipate all of that work to take? You may be super quick, but I'm guessing that it goes beyond the typical fees a game company might offer. For example, if I had a card game that I anticipated printing 5,000 copies of, and I needed art and graphics for 60 cards (for simplicity maybe they fall in 20 basic categories), simple rules, and art/graphics for a two piece box. If I'm selling MSRP at $12.95 I need to produce for under $4.75. The designer may get $0.25 per copy sold. If I assume the same for graphics and art based on the full run that would be $1,250. If I think I can get components printed/collated/shrinkwrapped for $4.00 a copy, this would leave $2,500 for graphics and art (which makes it a bit over 10% of the uprfront cost of producing the game). Do either of these seem reasonable?

Again, I have no basis for this, just articulating what thought process I might go through as a publisher.

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Fri, 11/19/2004 - 17:17
#4
Chad_Ellis
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Graphic design costs

Having recently self-published two games I can give you SOME idea, but only some.

Not all companies will want to work on a commission basis (I don't) for graphic design work, and if I were a graphic designer I wouldn't want to either. The design fee will depend on several things.

Scope of work is the biggest. For Succession, Kaja had to design the main board, the player boards (one template with five different pieces of Phil's art), chips and three card templates -- as well as filling in the text for each of the cards. For Space Station Assault she had to design four icons and then one basic card layout, into which went twelve different pieces of art (as well as twelve different sets of numbers within the icons). So the scope of work was very different for the two games.

Another question worth asking is what is the project worth to you on a resume basis? Kaja had never done a board game and wanted to have a beautiful game she could use to get more business. So her price was a bit lower than it would be for the NEXT company, but my understanding is that Succession has already led to her winning new work.

Another question is who is handling the technical problems that invariably come up? Those can absorb a bunch of time and money (i.e. the printer's time gets charged to the project). If you're responsible for that interface you need to account for the time you'll invest there AND you need to have a clear understanding about liability for extra billing from the printer caused by any problems.

Hope this helps.

Hugs,
Chad

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Sun, 11/21/2004 - 01:20
#5
Z-Man
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Joined: 01/01/2009
Re: Graphic Design Fees??? How much??? Desperate to know.

eyecandy wrote:
What kind of range do you think there might be for graphic design fees when the designer also does the illustration?

And when there is an illustrator as well, how much should the graphic designer generally get working with an illustrator?

Both questions assume graphic design for a board, box design, a 20pg or so rule book, tiles and cards.

******This is not an easy question because there are so many factors including your own experience level.

With me, a designer who is the graphic designer, doesn't get extra money - his royalty takes care of the design and graphics: since I'm publishing his game, and he wants the best game out there, it seems fair to include this into the royalty.

As a separate illustrator, or graphic designer, as I said, experience counts for something. In this industry, there aren't too many 10K run games looking for such work: these people are probably taken and busy with the few games of that ilk out there.

So when you get to a smaller run, then the company has to objectively look at its budget and decide what it can afford to pay a designer or illustrator.

If I pay, say, $1000 for a graphic design job (as stated by you - box, board, rules) and I'm planning a run of 5K, I just added 20 cents to the cost of the game. That might not seem like much but when you look at everything else, including what you can sell the game for (and hope it sells well), that 20 cents could break your budget or at least stop you form making the profit you need to do another game.

But $1000 seems to be a good price point for such a bang up job of several components. Again, depending on your experience and complexity of design $1000 might be too little or too much.

There isn't a right answer - it's what will make you and the company happy. If you're both happy, whether it's money on the back end, or a huge chunk up front, then it's a good deal.

I probably rambled a bit but it is a hard question to answer since there are no set rates.

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Sun, 11/21/2004 - 21:27
#6
RookieDesign
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Graphic Design Fees??? How much??? Desperate to know.

Eyecandy,

I was thinking about your problem and asked myself how can I help you.
Personnaly I can't but I know where you can look.

I suggest you join a graphics design group. I sure there's one in the USA, you just have to look it up. This group can help you with seminar, training, meeting, job proposition and such, but almost every serious group around do a salary survey every year. In that case you can find you information based on the number they provide.

Every year the Game Developer (for computer game) run a survey in an issue of their magazine. I'm part of the Order of Engineer of Quebec and every year they carry a salary survey.

Be part of one of these group, be interrested and active in them. You'll get tons of info and contacts.

Of course, stay tune on the Board Design Forum. :)

Good luck.

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Thu, 01/06/2005 - 03:36
#7
Jayhubbard
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Graphic Design Fees??? How much??? Desperate to know.

Hi

With regards to how much should I charge for design work is a tricky one, as you don't want to under charge as you'll look to cheap and you don';t want to over charge because no one will hire you.

You will have to take into account several areas with regards to your pricing;

First and foremost is this going to be your only source of income, becuase if it is then youn will have to charge professional prices. If you are already working and this is additional pocket money work then you can afford to price your self at a lower cost.

Second: what are your over heads?? You will need to cover these as well as make some money for yourself.

Third: How any hours to produce a standard piece of work, ie a how long does it take for you to produce a brochure. You set your self an hourly rate which takes into account the time taken and your overheads, especially if this is going to provide a roof over your head.

Take time to look around at other freelancers in your area, to get a feel for costing.

I'm a freelancer in the UK and charge anything from £15-45 an hour depending on the job, though I have done some work for friends and associates for less including free, but I can afford to as I also work as Teacher part time. If you are planning on making aliving in this area then you will have to make sure that you can cover all of your costs.

Set hourly rates for particular projects:

ie Logo design £15 per hour
Brochure design £15-30 etc etc

With regards to illustration for games companies, the only advice I can give you is to look at the D20 Gaming Companies as they have set rates for illustrations.

Also one crucial area to remeber when embarking into this arena, is contracts, make sure you have a contract for any job you start. If a potential client won't sign a contract then my advice is drop them like a lead balloon. If a client won't sign then the chances are they won't pay, a hard lesson I learnt when I first became a freelancer 8 years ago.

Anyway good luck, your work is excellent and you should have no problem picking up some work.

Cheers Jason
need any more advice you can contact me at Jason.b.hubbard@gmail.com

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Thu, 01/06/2005 - 09:12
#8
Anonymous
Graphic Design Fees??? How much??? Desperate to know.

Thanks everyone for the valuable information and the time you put into the responses!!

Mike Doyle

www.michaeldoyle.com/AoM.html
www.michaeldoyle.com/PRege/LaCiudad.html

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