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Junkyard Wars game

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ACG
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Hi! I've got another crazy idea for a game -- but is it too crazy?

You know the Junkyard Wars show on TV, where two teams have a certain amount of time to take material found in a junkyard (seeded with a few appropriate non-junk things like huge batteries and stuff) and build a machine for a certain purpose? Consider this.

Sell a starter kit with a gameboard (if any) and the "seed" objects for all of the tasks (motors, wires, tools, instruction and safety manuals, Legos, ball bearings, sensors, and so forth). It comes with two big bags full of junk, the contents basically random: bottlecaps, pencils, paper clips, washers, crayons, you name it. The players take a bag at random at the beginning of the game. Additional bags of junk can be purchased as expansion packs.

The goal is simple: a task is drawn at random from a list of tasks and the two teams have 15 minutes to construct a gizmo to do the task. It can't be nearly as complicated as on TV, obviously. The score for the task depends on how well it's done: a bullseye in a target-type thing would be 10 points, a near miss 8, and so forth. First team to 50 or something like that wins.

The junk may be augmented with stuff around the house which isn't in the set if all teams agree to it.

Could this actually work?

Thanks in advance,

ACG

phpbbadmin
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Junkyard Wars game

I guess maybe I'm missing the obvious, but how is this relevant to board games?

-Darke

zaiga
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Junkyard Wars game

Darkehorse wrote:
I guess maybe I'm missing the obvious, but how is this relevant to board games?

How is it not relevant to board games? It's Scrapheap Challenge as a board game, isn't it?

I think the idea could work. Perhaps you need to divide the players into two teams, and let them create their "gizmo" from a common pool of objects. I also think it would be important that the goals can be clearly measured, so that a clear winner can be chosen between the two teams.

Stainer
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Junkyard Wars game

My initial thoughts are skeptical about the game.

The 'junk' that you're selling is just household items. Why would I go out and buy them when I have them already at home? The little motors most people won't have, so you could sell those (hobby stores also sell them).

As was suggessted you could have a common pool of items and as a twist you could have players try to win the items for their team. Maybe answer a trivia question and grab a motor from the pile of 'junk'.

It's a neat idea, but I don't see it as being practical. If you could design customizable machines that players can build and destroy then I can see it going somewhere. Also, it sounds very much like a collectible game. You can see stronger machines and better machines to the people who can afford them.

Rob

Torrent
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Junkyard Wars game

I was a mechanical engineering student for a while in college, and went to a few of the ASME (American Society of Mechanical Engineers) student conferences. They did a few challenges like what you are talking about.

Short Prep:
1) Each team gets am identical prepared pile of junk. 30 min and a task. Then they are all measured. Tasks were things like moving an egg, or throwing a pingpong ball.

Long Prep:
2) The conference always had a task that it centered around. This task was published months in advance and then student teams brough explicitly built things to do those tasks. One year was something like an automatic golfing machine that would try to hit balls into faraway holes. Another year was some sortof automatic sorter for widgets. I thinkif you hit the ASME webste you could find the old challenges.

Just a few thoughts.... think science projects rather than Junkyard wars.

Andy

phpbbadmin
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Junkyard Wars game

zaiga wrote:
Darkehorse wrote:
I guess maybe I'm missing the obvious, but how is this relevant to board games?

How is it not relevant to board games? It's Scrapheap Challenge as a board game, isn't it?

I think the idea could work. Perhaps you need to divide the players into two teams, and let them create their "gizmo" from a common pool of objects. I also think it would be important that the goals can be clearly measured, so that a clear winner can be chosen between the two teams.

Well I think this would fall out of the realm of what *I* personally would consider a board game because the components aren't abstract. They are real objects that you must manipulate to accomplish the task. To me this is more of a competitive activity than a board game. Just my $.02.

-Darke

Kreitler
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Junkyard Wars game

Darkehorse wrote:

Well I think this would fall out of the realm of what *I* personally would consider a board game because the components aren't abstract. They are real objects that you must manipulate to accomplish the task. To me this is more of a competitive activity than a board game. Just my $.02.

-Darke

I'm not trying to be provocative, here -- I just think this poses an interesting question (though off topic):

Are games like Jenga and Tiddlywinks forum appropriate? If so, then is component abstraction a requirement?

Thinking about this makes my brain hurt...

BTW, I think the Junkyard Wars board game is a very interesting idea -- though potentially risky. The first time little Tommy disassembles the dishwasher to pull off the win in the "jet-powered race car" competition, someone's in trouble.

Also, there's a very tamed down, kid-friendly "Lego" version of this game which I've always wanted to try. I think yours would be more fun, though (at least for people with that kind of skill).

K.

Johan
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Junkyard Wars game

First: I like the basic idea but I can not how it will be anything but boring after the first two game sessions (I cant see how it could work but it could be just me).

Darkehorse wrote:

Well I think this would fall out of the realm of what *I* personally would consider a board game because the components aren't abstract. They are real objects that you must manipulate to accomplish the task. To me this is more of a competitive activity than a board game. Just my $.02.

-Darke

I agree with Darke on this. It would be the same thing as: We give two groups a bag of Lego, draw a card from a deck they indicates what they should build and do the scoring on a game board. Is that a board game?

// Johan

TrekNoid
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Junkyard Wars game

Johan wrote:
I agree with Darke on this. It would be the same thing as: We give two groups a bag of Lego, draw a card from a deck they indicates what they should build and do the scoring on a game board. Is that a board game?

Part of the elements of 'Junkyard Wars', though is *finding* the components you need by searching through the scrap heaps...

The board could be a representation of the junkyard, and you have to move through the junkyard and search for items...

Also, you could have your team members (pawns) having different abilities (welding, finding, electrical, etc...) that would increase/decrease the likelihood of various components of the build.

TrekNoid

Nestalawe
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Junkyard Wars game

Kreitler wrote:
Are games like Jenga and Tiddlywinks forum appropriate? If so, then is component abstraction a requirement?

Yeah this is a bit tricky. I don't see Jenga or Tiddlywinks as boardgames. For one, they have no board... But then a lot of people discuss card games (including me) on this forum.

Not all games that 'come in a box' are boardgames, though the term 'boardgames' deos seem to encompass a whole lotta games - many games on the BGG are nto strictly boardgames.

Depends on how strict you good' ol moderators want to be methinks. Should there be a discussion on this?

larienna
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Junkyard Wars game

First, I think genga can be considered as a board game. It is a game that evaluate the dexterity of the players instead of their mind. Another game in the same category, there would be the straw game where you must remove a straw from the bundle without making any of them move. They each have a different colors which are worth different points.

Stuff like lego, mecano and all their friend are more toys than board games. I would class the building stuff with junk in the toy category.

Now for your junk things, NO NO and NO. There is no way that I will actually pay for a bag of junk. I don't say that the idea is bad. But don't sell junk.

You can make a real board game that use the same theme, That is OK. You would have a set of cards REPRESENTING various junk part with some information on how to connect them with other cards.

Nestalawe
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Junkyard Wars game

Yeah but how do you define a Boardgame, and how do you define a game? I would define Jenga as a game, but not a boardgame. You need a definition of what a Boardgame is first. Is Twister a boardgame? Is Simon a boardgame?

There are many games people can buy and play out there, but not all of them are boardgames.

Is Poker a boardgame?

Axe
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Junkyard Wars game

You might be able to abstract these objects to cards (though I have no idea how it would work). This would bring it back to the realm of a game rather then a timed science project.

For this to sell I suspect you'd need to tie it to the show. Might present the idea to whoever owns it.

larienna
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Junkyard Wars game

OK, I would consider a board game what I call a "table game" It must play on a table or close to. With some exceptions like werewolf would be considered a table game even if you don't need a table. So if there is really a board or not, on my point of view it is a board game.

Poker would be a board game ( table game) but not twister.

TrekNoid
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Junkyard Wars game

Nestalawe wrote:
Yeah but how do you define a Boardgame, and how do you define a game? I would define Jenga as a game, but not a boardgame. You need a definition of what a Boardgame is first. Is Twister a boardgame? Is Simon a boardgame?

I tend to separate 'boardgames' and 'tabletop games' as follows:

A Boardgame, in my view, has some sort of premarked surface that is used to play the game.. ie, a 'board'.

A Tabletop, again in my view, doesn't necessarily need a board, but there is a playing surface that is an element of the game.

So, in my world:

Jenga - Tabletop game (since falling onto the surface is a component of the game)
Twister - Boardgame
Simon - Neither. (You set it on a surface, but the surface isn't part of the game)
CCGs - generally Tabletop, though beginners usually use playmats to learn, which are a 'board' of types... They don't generally *need* a board.
Monopoly - Both... The board is required, and the playing surface is an integral part of the game (holding property and money)
Poker - Tabletop
Yahtzee - Tabletop

As for what should/shouldn't be on the forums, I tend to hope that we're all really game-designers, and while the forums are here for Board Games, we probably all delve into other areas occasionally, and the topics involved are general enough to crossover.

Just an opinion though... from one of the newer members...

TrekNoid

ACG
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Junkyard Wars game

Hi! How about this variation?

The game consists of a junkyard-style gameboard similar to Clue, but the rooms are areas of the junkyard with screws, bolts, wires, magnets, and so forth. The various screws and so forth have various qualities (in the sense of how good they are), with the better-quality tools rarer, so you'll have to go to the magnet department several times to find a high-quality magnet, for instance). Each "store" has a deck of cards associated with it, When the player enters the store, they take the top card.

In the center of the board is the construction zone. Teams must go to each of the "stores" and return to the construction zone to drop off each item. They can only hold one card at the time: if they're stuck with a bad card, they have to drop it off before getting another. They accumulate a pile of cards in the center. They may trade tools with opponents. They move around the board using dice, as in Clue.

At the beginning of each game, each team draws a task from the final deck of cards: projects. The task will identify the machine to be built and indicate what you would need to build it: say 2 motors, 3 screws, 1 magnet, and so forth. Once the team has assembled all of the components they need for their machine, they reveal their card and test out their machine.

In theory, the machine should work. However, because it's unlikely they were able to accumulate all perfect components, there is a chance of failure which increases each time they use a shoddy component. If the machine works, they've completed their project: first completed project wins. If it fails, the components are all destroyed and they have to start from scratch.

Stores have a finite number of tools -- which means that it may be possible to filibuster your opponent by grabbing all the ball bearings (for instance) if he's got a motor which needs ball bearings. You want your ball bearing? Give me that hammer...

Variations:

1. Teams have a certain amount of money and they can spend this cash to buy components. There are no component decks in this case -- but there are price lists. To buy a more precise component, you need to pay for it. Making deals with your opponent may come in handy if you need cash!

2. Both teams go after the same goal. I'm not sure how to do that though.

What do you think?

ACG

larienna
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Junkyard Wars game

That is much better.

I like the fact that your machine does not necessarily work the first time you assemble all the pieces.

ACG
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Junkyard Wars game

I spoke to my father (a mechanical engineer) and a guy who plays games and runs a game store. Here are the basics. The game store guy says that this could get as good as one of the German games: he's probably exaggerating though.

It's basically what I had before, but with a few changes.

The players start with two workers each and $1,000. They can use the money to hire additional workers as contractors ($n per worker per turn, unpaid contractors go on strike and cannot take action), buy prefabricated tools [hammers, drills, etc.] to help their projects, or save to make deals with other players for necessary equipment. Since everyone has their own board, no one knows what anyone else is doing a la Kriegspiel (unless one team's worker runs into another team's worker in the maze) -- or even what the opponents are working on: each player has a different project (100 points wins, with each project's score proportionate to its difficulty; you will likely need more than one project to win -- get ready to dismantle stuff you've already done).

The actual material is spread throughout the junkyard more or less at random. There is no magnet store, just magnets in random places in the junkyard and the people have to find them and bring them back. A few tools can be found in the junkyard as well along with the material -- the user has to choose whether to spend money to buy it or look for it himself. The quality of the material found will vary as in the original plan.

The three basic types of action a worker can do are these: work on the machine (possibly with a tool), move, or search the area around him for junk. The more weight he's carrying of junk, the less he can move.

The board would in fact be a maze with the common area in the center. If you've seen Junkyard Wars, the junkyard sure looks like a maze.

One last thing: there are 200 junk tiles, of which only 100 are in use at any given time. You have no idea, therefore, what will actually be in the junkyard -- just like the contestants on the show. If there is anything which people HAVE to have available for at least one project which does not actually show up in the junkyard due to bad luck, I'll probably have the emcee be able to sell it among the tools.

Remember there is no actual construction involved and all tools and materials will be represented by tokens. However, there will be a list of common operations along with the man-turns required to perform them (screwing in 5 screws takes one man-turn, stuff like that). That will simulate the actual construction phase.

This is looking good!

ACG

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