My rock and roll touring game.

Tue, 06/07/2005 - 15:07

#1

Dralius

Offline

Joined: 07/26/2008

My rock and roll touring game.

Boy sure is allot of cards. The game seems to share many similarities with the card game Battle of the Bands. You will want to make sure that your game has a unique hook/facet if you’re going to submit it to a publisher. Many games have overlapping themes and mechanics so don’t let it bother you. On the other hand if you have not seen BotB you might want to check it out so you don’t accidentally duplicate an element of the game.

Currently an online version is in beta testing at http://www.gametableonline.com/ so you can play it for free.

Tue, 06/07/2005 - 15:22

#2

Anonymous

My rock and roll touring game.

Thanks for the heads up on that game. Ill have to check it out and see how alike they are.

C.

Tue, 06/07/2005 - 15:32

#3

seo

Offline

Joined: 07/21/2008

My rock and roll touring game.

The game sounds interesting, and the theme is something I bet can be great to attract potential gamers attention. I can picture a group of friends playing your game having lots of fun creating names for the band and their CDs and songs, even though (at least from your description) the game doesnt require that. But I see it as a game with lots of potential for joy.

The lots of cards migh be a problem production-wise, and also for practical reasons. You'll need quite some room on the board/table for so many cards (you can't just place 600 cards in just ONE pile), and might also require some time just to shuffle. But production costs might turn to be a real problem. Maybe you can divide them into, say, 150 basic cards and some extension packages. But unless you need all the 600 cards to playtest and develop your game, I wouldn't bother too much about this right now.

Do you need help with something in particular, or just wanted to know if hte game made sense to us? I sounds good to me. From your description it seems easy enough to learn and with all the potential to be a fun game. Lots of room for interesting and fun graphics, too, which is a good thing.

Seo

Tue, 06/07/2005 - 16:12

#4

Anonymous

My rock and roll touring game.

the large number of musician cards will be split into decks for each instrument, there will be a lot of musician cards but they will be in about 5-6 piles depending on how many band posisitions I settle on.
Players need to be able to choose particular members by insturment, so that should help some.

I am thinking about building a deck caddy that would hold the decks "off board".

I sould have said before that publishing isnt something I plan on, this is just for me and my friends, and folks who might want to build one themselves.

Ill post the preliminary rules outline later on tonight and see what folks have to say.

Im just looking for feedback, encouragment and comments on the playability and stuff. I might submit it for the GDW when I pull it all together.

Thanks

C.

Tue, 06/07/2005 - 17:03

#5

Anonymous

My rock and roll touring game.

It may be worth noting there are at least 4 expansions for BoTB that I know of, and at least one of them introduced some new mechnaics, so just an additional heads up.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/829

p.s.

LOVE YOUR AVATAR CAPTAIN_BLACK!

Tue, 06/07/2005 - 18:09

#6

Anonymous

My rock and roll touring game.

Well guys, I had a look at "battle of the bands" and from what I can tell from a quick cursory glance, its not really very much like my game except in theme. My mechanics are quite a bit different, and this is a boardgame, yeah it hase tons of cards but it is a boardgame.

I will say that it looks a lot like the game my artist had in mind when we were dreaming it up. I couldnt get my head around a game that used cards only. Im an old fart and have no experience with such games as that.

Quote:

LOVE YOUR AVATAR CAPTAIN_BLACK!

Thanks stewy, I been using Captain Black for years and years online. God that was a great show, I wonder what the new CGI version is like.

C.

Tue, 06/07/2005 - 18:52

#7

Yogurt

Offline

Joined: 01/09/2009

My rock and roll touring game.

A few questions that popped into my head:

How do band members get recruited?

How often do they change? (Is most of the game about recruitment or travelling?)

Do the venue cards get placed on the board? (This could require few locations or a big board.)

What are some of the tough decisions players will need to make over the course of the game? Perhaps "do I continue to tweak the band, or do I get out there?" or "can we squeeze in one more show, even though the band is exhausted?"

Are there other games that feel similar to you, gameplay-wise?

What's the goal for playing time? Fast or an all-nighter?

...

I do wonder about the need for 600 band members cards. With only 3 stats and a category, that doesn't seem like much to distinguish them. I don't think I own 600 Magic cards, and they're pretty unique.

The theme's appealing, but my first inkling was to try to streamline the game. Knowing what you see as the core of the game would help with this goal.

Yogurt

Tue, 06/07/2005 - 19:46

#8

larienna

Offline

Joined: 07/28/2008

My rock and roll touring game.

Good game theme, it surprise me when people comes with things like that. It allows to get out of the old classic fantasy and sci-fi themes that I always come up with.

Now about the game, 600 card is definitely out of the question. You are making a board game so you do not need to place everything in cards. For example, some information could simply be rolled on a chart. Some other things, like events in a city, could be represented with a simple token on the board.

The disadvantage, is that it will hinder your theme. For example, instead of having a card name "The funky show" with a picture and the fame stat of 3, you will simply have a token with the value 3 on it. So this can lower the "feeling" you want to get in the game. If you use tables, you can always place this information in the chart.

To reduce the number of cards, you can remove the number of details on the cards. For example, instead of making each musician have unique instrument, you can give them general abilities that can be used with any instrument, and when you draw/play it, you set it to an instrument type and it cannot be changed during the rest of the game. But the card is still polyvalent until you play it.

Another thing is that, for example, you said that there was around 150 musician cards. Do you really need 150 cards. I don't know how your game will run but maybe 30 to 50 cards will be fair enough unless you are playing 12 players. For music event, around 20 card is OK since the event are always comming back year after year. So you can keep the idea of making everything in cards but only reduce the number. Then again, it all depends of your game mechanics.

Finally, when you start play stesting it, check the playing time. Because I think that the game can circle around for a long time. The idea of scoring point as fame point is cool. You could also make some special event cards that increase or decrease your fame.

Good luck, it seem nice!

Tue, 06/07/2005 - 21:05

#9

Anonymous

My rock and roll touring game.

Well since I have some peoples curiosity peaked, here is my design notes as of a few hours ago. Keep in mind that there are lots of placeholders and ideas that still havent made it into this design doc.

This is pretty raw but let me run it up the flag pole and see who salutes.

C.

Basic Outline: “Rock & Roll Fantasy” ... just a working title.

Game Parts List: 1170 cards total (way too much needs to be whittled down to a more manageable number)

Game Board:
Large US map, overlaid with a hex grid. The map will have the “most populous” cities noted (and maybe the most major highways). Should be about 3’x2’ and a will have a grid size at least 48x36 hexes.

Game Dice:
6 color-coded d10s

Band Albums:
This is a cardboard or plastic portfolio that holds each player’s game materials, cards, counters etc. It should be rigid and durable. It will have holes (for peg type markers used for counting fans and marking several other things, like transportation type, number of consecutive gigs played, Band style and Musician style bonuses), and slots cut out for the cards.

Musician Cards:
Standard sized playing cards with backs color coded to the instrument of the character on the face, so basically 6 decks of musicians: Vocalists, Lead Guitarists, Rhythm Guitarists, Keyboardists, Bassists, and Drummers. The face of the card has the image of the musician, a short bio, and his game statistics. There is one card for every possible permutation of the statistics, style preferences, and instrument position. So, (1-3 for each stat, Charisma, Skill, and Stamina, (3x3x3) x5 styles). (Need to find more musical terms for the stats.) 6 decks with 135 cards per deck. (Total of 810 Musician cards) This needs to be whittled down somehow.

Crew Cards:
Standard sized playing cards with an image of the character, a short bio, and the bonus modifier they confer. +0, +1, +2 Crew positions are, Manager, Sound Tech., Lighting Tech., Pyro. Tech., Roadies and Stagehands.

Performance Crew (lighting, sound, pyrotechnics, and stagehands) all add their bonus to the raw performance of musicians who need it. There are never more than 4 performance crewmembers in any band.

The special cards (Managers and Roadies) Managers add their bonus when determining the number of contacts made after a show. Roadies add their bonus to the travel range by moving the equipment quickly to and from the vehicle and the venue, thus allowing more time for actual travel.

Need at least 60 of these cards if there is supposed to be up to 8 players. 10 full sets of crew 60 cards. May need to lower the number of players.

Rest Stop Cards:
These are also standard size playing cards; they are actually 2 decks, one for good situations/bonuses, and one for bad situations/penalties.

There will be at 50-75 each of these cards. 100-150 total

Good cards: These cards are all basically bonuses to fan awards, bonus contacts, and special situation events.
Examples:
1. The band takes over open mic night at a “Nowhereville, Motel Lounge” Band adds number of fans equal to total band performance stats.
2. Band meets local radio DJ and gets invited to do a live interview. Fans won at next gig are awarded x2.
3. Band gets in some harmless mischief, local paper provides free publicity, and 2 extra contacts are made at the next gig.
4. Encore Performance. The band is held over for another night at the venue last played (only if the first was a success) and plays for a packed house. 2x fans possible.
5. Band judges’ local wet tee shirt contest and meets local personalities. Make one contact from musician deck or crew deck.
6. “Battle of the bands” is called. Player draws a venue card and the top 50% of bands are called to perform.

Bad cards: These are pretty much like the good cards in most respects, except that this should be the only way for bands to “lose” fans.
Examples:
1. Vocalist falls “out of” the motel swimming pool, emergency room/AA meeting required. Travel cut in half (round down) next turn.
2. Nearest venue cancels the gig and a new venue card drawn.
3. Instrument broken needs repair. At next gig band must wait one turn before performing. (Maybe giving another player time to get there too)
4. Member of the crew busted selling bootlegs, must remove one crewmember card (to be reshuffled into the deck).
5. Left band member behind, must return to last venue or miss a turn while he catches up.
6. Bad publicity results in a fan revolt. Lose 20% of your fan base due to a bad sound bite.
7. Band member dies, that musician card is removed and “is not” shuffled back into the deck.

Venue Cards:
These cards are representations of the large cities across the map. Each card has numbers on them representing potential fans that can be won at a gig for each of the 3 different levels of gigs. Need about 100-150 of these, depending on map scale.

Player Tokens: these should be stackable, for times when more than one player occupies the same hex. 8 tokens total

Order of play is as follows….

Starting player:

All players roll one die and the highest wins, re-roll high pairs.
Play starts with the winner and goes around the table clockwise.
Each player draws a venue card and that location is the city of origin for that band. Those venue cards are then replaced and the deck is shuffled.

Audition Phase:

Musician card decks are shuffled and placed in separate piles.
Players all roll one die and add the result /2 to 6, this gives them 7-11 possible Band members to choose from initially.

Players will choose them without seeing them. They will choose how best to select which decks to draw multiples from, but they are all drawn before they make any choices as to which ones to keep. After the cards are drawn by all players, then the players will choose which members to keep and which to discard. All unsaved cards are then reshuffled into their respective decks.

At this point the band declares its musical style, and band members are checked to note personal musical matches noted by a marker to the right of the musician card.

After that, the band plays one gig in their hometown before they go out on the road at double the number of fans listed on the venue card for that city. This gig makes the difference between riding off to seek your fame and fortune, and hitchhiking your way to your next gig. When the band attracts 100 fans, they can hire a manager, get a car and finally stop hitchhiking to gigs.

Once this is done the band is ready to go “On the Road”.

On the Road:
First, all players take turns laying out 2 venue cards, these cities have active gigs waiting to be played. Bands can only play at active venues. If a gig has been played and needs to be reshuffled, the player whose band played the gig draws the new card. There should always be 2 gigs showing per number of players.

The player checks the transportation chart against the band’s current popularity, the current number of fans determines which kind of transport they can use. Players move the map token up to the number of hexes allowed by their current form of transportation.

0-99 fans=Hitchhikers 0-5hexs (roll1d10/2, round down), Get your act together.
100 fans=Car: 3hexs, Hire Manager, (crew contacts can not be made without a manager)
500 fans=Van: 6hexs, Hire Roadie, (play second tier gigs)
2,500 fans=Cargo Truck: 9hexs, Hire Sound engineer (make first record?)
12,500 fans=Tour Bus: 12hexs, Hire Lighting tech
62,500 fans=Commercial Airline: 15hexs, Hire Pyrotechnics (play third tier gigs)
312,500 fans=Chartered Flight: 18hexs
1,562,500 fans=Private Jet: Unlimited movement.

Road Stops:

If there is no gig where the band finishes its movement, then that band rolls all dice to determine if there is a chance event, and if it is good or bad. A roll of 2-9 is no event, a 1 causes a Woe card (bad event), and a roll of 10 requires a Wow card (good event). Those events are acted upon at that point, though some may be saved for play later if specified on that particular card. Unless specified by the card, that event happens immediately, before the next movement round begins. If more than one die comes up with an event, then one card is drawn for each event called for on all dice. Example: If the rolls are 1, 3, 5, 0, 2, and 9, then one Woe card and one Wow card is drawn. The events may happen to a specific musician (i.e. death card) the color code will determine who the event happens to.

Gig Night:

If the player lands on an active gig venue, then that band plays the gig.
The player totals each musician’s stats, and then adds the +1 modifier for the members whose musical style is consistent with the stated style of the band. This is the raw performance stat. If the band is playing consecutive gigs, they must also check the band member’s stats to see if their stamina holds up. A musician, playing a gig beyond their stamina stat, suffers a –1 penalty for each day (turn or gig) they are overextended. Stamina and style modifiers take place before the roll.

All performance dice are rolled and assigned to their color coded musician’s stats. The player can then add any crew bonuses needed to assure a successful performance. Crew bonuses (from acquired Crew Member cards) are added after the roll. The player can pick and choose where to use which ones after the die rolls are known.

All players who make successful rolls get the number of fans specified for that venue, if the roll is failed, then no fans are won by that member. For exact “natural rolls” (numbers matching the “raw performance stat” not needing any crew modifiers), doubles the number of fans awarded to that band member at the gig.

After a Gig is played there are likely to be a number of potential musicians/crewmembers from the audience, which may approach the band. This is determined by the success of the show. One contact is made for every 2 successful performances, if a show has 3 musicians perform successfully, then 1 contact is made (3/2 and rounded down). That player chooses 1 card from either a musician deck or the crew deck.

If 2 players arrive at an active Gig venue at the same time, the band that has the most fans is the “Headline Act” and bases their success rewards (fans) from one level higher than that of the lesser band. If both bands are in the same league (within the same popularity bracket (i.e. still driving a cargo truck), then either band would normally be playing a medium venue gig alone, in this situation though one band gets the lower slot and plays the lesser gig of “Opening Act”.

For the rare occurrence of a Triple bill concert, the most popular act plays the top fan value gig (even if it is out of their league), the second band plays the middle gig (even if it is out of their league or is beneath them), and the least popular group plays the lowest value gig as the “Special Guest” (even if it is beneath them).

When the gig is a multi-band show, the dice are only rolled once (by the player of the headline act) and are used for all bands performing that night. The headline act gets first crack at any contacts resulting from the show, then the opening act, then special guest. No more than 3 bands can play at the same gig normally. If 4 bands play the same gig then that gig is done per “Battle of the Bands” rules.

Battle of the Bands:

When a Battle of the Bands is called for (either by card, or when 4 bands arrive at the same gig), each band roles “performance dice” as with a normal single gig. The player with the highest number of successful performances in the band wins. If there is a tie then there is a playoff until only one remains. Winner takes all fans at the venue for all 3 levels of fan base. Losers gain no fans, but still get a shot at making contacts as usual, except the number of contacts made at a Battle event is a full 1d10 roll.

Once all shows have been played, and all contacts and trades etc. are finalized, play proceeds back to “On the Road”.

Tue, 06/07/2005 - 23:47

#10

Anonymous

My rock and roll touring game.

It looks like you may have enough of a different feel to this game afterall, and you definitley have the drive!

The first piece of advice I can give is to take a step back and look for ways to simplify, combine and streamline. I think you have a beast of an idea here, but it may need to be beat into submission.

An old school gamer not into card games who elects to incorporate the 10 sided die? Interesting.

__

Charisma = Celebrity

Skill = Chops

Stamina = Drive

__

Yes to both less players (no one can get 8 people together anymore) and less cards.

I would either drop stagehands or combine with roadies

I would even kill the Keyboards deck.

I would also actually decrease the number of drummers and bass players available (how true it is). Have those decks inherently smaller.

Make sure merchandising is a part of this game, its the number one money maker for touring bands at all levels.

Make sure "super model girlfriend" is in your good cards, and gives a healthy contact boost.

A substance abuse card that gives large stamina bonuses >sniff< >sniff< but higher chance of burn out or death.

Perhaps look for ways to integrate venue cards into the board/map, and do away with them. (have the locations with stats built into the board, use a die to determine who goes where, or have it open and free choice)

Woe & Wow could have more themed names. Now nothing cheesy like Bummer & Awesome, no no go for something real that rockers are using right now like Rougish & Sick for example.

__

I still may be a little lost on why so many of each musician card. Maybe you could really describe what you are seeing in this area. Maybe give teh break down for what a crad face would look like and the info it would contain.
__

Keep rocking your idea Cap.

Wed, 06/08/2005 - 02:53

#11

zobmie

Offline

Joined: 12/31/1969

My rock and roll touring game.

more cards

-drummer burns out before you get big lose a month to find and train new drummer.

-van is a pile of junk, lose next month's worth of shows

-can't quit dayjob yet, player can only play shows in home state.

-a child is born! lose a band member.

-practice space floods, lose all gear and merch

-GIRLFRIEND TAKEOVER! gain one extra mouth to feed in the van.

ok
so i'm being a little pessimistic, but i speak the truth!
http://diverinfo.blogs.com

you could also have a mechanic where you decide how ecclectic your musical style is from turn to turn. Too ecclectic and noone will listen to your crazy avant gard noise jazz metal, not ecclectic enough and you are lumped in with all the other nu-metal wanna be's. each crowd wants a different amount of originality, and you can only change it gradually over time, and only with certain musicians. Change your style too much and you will lose your original fan base.

Wed, 06/08/2005 - 03:51

#12

Anonymous

My rock and roll touring game.

Insomnia its a bitch....

Well since Im up, Ill post a reply.

The reason I am feeling the need for so many cards is I want to reflect the way the real world appears to be set up. There are lots and lots of mediocre musicians, way more than either super awsome and totally crap ones. Well yeah, I know there are more super crap ones, but they usually dont have the nerve to try and perform professionally. This was the best way I can think of to reflect that, using all the permutations of the stats rather than picking and choosing. I also dont want to show any inherant bias toward one form of music or another. I want the blues musicians to be equal to the rock and metal sets, even though I much perfer rock and metal personally. I have already cut back on the number of styles, originally I was planning to use 5 different styles of music including pop and hard rock.

Originally I wanted to use 1-5 as the statistics range, think about how many freakin cards that would have forced :roll:

It has been considered just making it a pen and paper game and doing away with cards totally, but none of my current friends are into writing during games. Im an old rpg guy so it wouldnt bother me, but the folks I am making the game to play with will balk.

I have considered killing off keyboards and then I wouldnt need stage hands. See, I want to have just slightly fewer performance crew members than performing musicians, so if I kill of the keyboards I think I'll be fine with doing away with stagehands and maybe even the pyro guys. I want to force choices/limitations about how many musicians can be assisted by crew support cards. Also if I lower the number of players I think it will allow me to reduce the number of crew cards I will need total I want there to be a fair amount of cards for drawing into even after allplayers have filled out their crew lineup. Say maybe 1.5 times more than needed for a full set of players. if I have 6 players I want to have, say 8 full sets of crew in the crew deck.

Quote:

__

Charisma = Celebrity

Skill = Chops

Stamina = Drive

__

Thanks Ill put that into use right away, maybe leaving charisma as is. Its not a term that would make much sense early on while they are a bar band. It is supposed to represent animal magnetism, looks and the ability to work the crowd, and not popularity which I feel that "celebrity" would imply.

Ill think about putting the venue cards into a table rather than a deck and maybe print the fan base stats directly onto the board but there are benefits to using cards for them as well. Such as a community that bans live music during the game (thats was a card I planned to have in the woe deck). It would be hard to remember which venues have been made available without having some means to show them, having the cards showing is a simple way to do that. Not that I am refusing to change this aspect, but lets say I am resistant to it. I do not want there to be a situation where bands can choose to play at any city they happen to be near, the necessity to travel is pretty important I think.

I am considering cutting down quite a bit on the actual number of venue cities 75 seems like a fair number.

I have considered using merchandising and also studio recording and radio, but I dont see how that will play into the fan collection aspect except to make things MORE complicated than they already are. I DO NOT wanna have to try and figure out how to add money to this mess ;)

As for the question about playing time... I think its the kind of thing that is open to the players discression. The victory goal could be set before they start, and the way I envision things in my head, the game could be saved and continued later if need be. Could be a few hours, or could be several weekends.

I want to thank everyone for the replys, all have been helpfull and/or thought provoking. Man am I glad I found this place.

C.

Wed, 06/08/2005 - 12:07

#13

Yogurt

Offline

Joined: 01/09/2009

My rock and roll touring game.

Consider having some sort of musician creation method, rather than using cards for each band member.

For example, have a few base musician cards and then add customizing tiles that increase (or decrease) that musician's stats. This gives you a wide range of band members, without needing separate cards for each one.

The band members could be customizing with attributes like lovers or froglicking addiction or whatever you like.

Yogurt

Wed, 06/08/2005 - 12:30

#14

Scurra

Offline

Joined: 09/11/2008

My rock and roll touring game.

Captain_Black wrote:

Thanks stewy, I been using Captain Black for years and years online. God that was a great show, I wonder what the new CGI version is like.

Ace. Althought I must confess that I laughed out loud when the opening titles said that it was filmed in "Hypermarionation" :)
It's clearly Captain Scarlet, but taken that one step further. So the look of the show is spot-on, but they can do stuff they never dreamt of with the puppets.

Off topic, sorry. Dust down that old "Spectrum" game idea I once had and see if it's any good...

Wed, 06/08/2005 - 12:59

#15

Anonymous

My rock and roll touring game.

if you want the cards to reflect the true pool of real life musicians, then i think you should pick and choose stats. as you say, there are more mediocre musicians than really good or really bad. this means that the stats should be weighted to give more mediocre cards than really good or really bad cards.

although i guess the cards are weighted as there are less 1,1,1 and 3,3,3 cards than all the cards in between.

also in real life, i think it is much easier to find a really good rhythm guitarist than a really good lead guitarist or to find a really good bass player than a really good lead singer. you can thin out some cards by weighting the instruments.

should charisma be more important for a lead singer than for a drummer?

maybe you could give each position a "critical" stat. drummers need stamina, singers need charisma, lead guitarists need skill, etc. then you could go to 5 as you originally desired, but only certain styles/instruments could go that high.

Wed, 06/08/2005 - 14:03

#16

Anonymous

My rock and roll touring game.

Quote:

i think it is much easier to find a really good rhythm guitarist than a really good lead guitarist or to find a really good bass player than a really good lead singer. you can thin out some cards by weighting the instruments.

Ill think about this, but I REALLY dont want to have to weight or fudge anything one way or the other.

I think Im about ready to try and build a prototype to playtest with. Simple cards, no art, stats only and probably not bother with the board yet either. I think the travel part is pretty solid, may need a few tweaks to the methods of travel but thats about it. Then if it proves to be too unwieldly, Ill be forced to re-examine the idea of picking and choosing stats.

Quote:

Consider having some sort of musician creation method, rather than using cards for each band member.

I fear this will add complexity more than it will help reduce the card count. I may have to try something like this, but I am going to see if my system works first.

Thanks folks,

C.

Wed, 06/08/2005 - 17:22

#17

Anonymous

My rock and roll touring game.

I have been thinging about this today...

Do I really need the styles?

I think its one of the more realistic aspects of my design, it is also one of the biggest things contributing to the bloat in the decks.

What do you guys think?

C.

Wed, 06/08/2005 - 19:24

#18

seo

Offline

Joined: 07/21/2008

My rock and roll touring game.

I would keep the styles but avoid having a card for every single possible combination of the musicians stats. I like the idea of different styles and the way each member prefered style will affect the band quality as a whole. If you get rid of styles you should find something similar (like how good each member is at working for the band as opposed to working for his own glory) to masure the band seamlessness.

I think styles are an important part of your game.

Actually, I would follow Yogurt's suggestion of a musician creation method instead of musician cards, maybe determine a points total with your d10/2+6 method and let each player distribute that value in Charisma, Chops and Drive, values 1 to 5 for each. Something like that. Or you can roll 4(d10/2) and use the values to define your musician, deciding what value goes for what quality (the fourth being music style).

Anyway, if you think musician cards are a better choice, I would keep styles and have cards for only some skill combinations instead of one card for every possible value combination (plus repeats to acheive the desired proportion of many mediocre and less extremes).

Just my 2 cents.

Seo

Wed, 06/08/2005 - 21:51

#19

Anonymous

My rock and roll touring game.

What if I dont mark the instrument on the cards at all, and let it be a function of the order the musician card is drawn? The vocalist would be the first, then lead grt, rythm gtr, then keyboards, bass and drums.

If I do that I can consolidate the musician cards into a single deck(still a very large one), have more styles (blues, rock, metal, pop, hard rock and punk) and a huge reduction in total number of musician cards. 3x3x3=27 stat permutations x6=162 musicians total. It keeps the distribution of stats I am trying for too.

Give each player 6 cards, thats only 36 out, and it still leaves 126 cards to choose from in the deck, which should leave a pretty good chance that you can improve any given slot with a trade.

This fixes a lot of things.

C.

Thu, 06/09/2005 - 03:53

#20

Anonymous

My rock and roll touring game.

Do you really need a hex grid map? I think it actually decreases the feel of the game. That would make it look like a hexgrid wargame at first glance.

I think you can chop down the number of cities to six or seven at most. If you need to diferenciate the distances, you can include numbers on the roads connecting them. An option: event cards can be located on the roads. Their effects are applied when a band uses that road. Players could place these event from their hands before a tour, to hinder other players or help themselves

It would be also better to use not actual city names, but generic ones with funny names, like: Big City, Cropduster Village, (these are not funny, but you know what I mean)

for three reasons:
- to simplify. The field where musicians can perform can be treated abstractly. The type of the joint matters much more than the actual location.
- it would be more 'international'
- from the view of the artist, there are much more possibilities to make a great looking board if it is simple. With a hexgrid representing an actual map, the artist have sooo many constraints, that he can't really do anything to save it from becoming dry. Since your game gonna be depending on the theme and the feel much, I think that is an important issue.

Another reason to chop down the number of cards. You would need an army of artist to illustrate six hundred cards.

Good luck with your game, can't wait to see the playtest version.

Thu, 06/09/2005 - 04:29

#21

Anonymous

My rock and roll touring game.

I think I have the cards down to 325 now. and only about 200 of those need art.

Im happy with the real cities part and the hex grid, infact Im planning to make the gid more fine to allow the highways to be important to the game.

More abstract is not a direction I want to go with it.

If it works out and folks want to see more Illmake a world tour map.

Right now I want to have atleast 60 cities and have every state represented.

I would like for this to be somewhat educational for my lil girl to play in a few years.

Ill give it some thought though, not like anything is carved in stone yet.

Thanks,

C.

Thu, 06/09/2005 - 04:35

#22

Anonymous

My rock and roll touring game.

Captain_Black wrote:

Thanks Ill put that into use right away, maybe leaving charisma as is. Its not a term that would make much sense early on while they are a bar band. It is supposed to represent animal magnetism, looks and the ability to work the crowd, and not popularity which I feel that "celebrity" would imply.

Animal magnetism, looks and ability to work a crowd is celebrity.

This is your Morrison, your Roth, your Jagger and your Ozzy. From early on these guys would walk into a room and people would just know "That guy's got it"

This is your Rockstar element, ever been in an old hole in the wall and heard a crappy band but the lead singer was magical, or how about the garage band with the one prodigy guitarist who seemed so out of place because he rivaled Malmsteen.

Star Power also works for Charisma, but its longer to spell out on the cards.

Quote:

I have considered using merchandising and also studio recording and radio, but I dont see how that will play into the fan collection aspect except to make things MORE complicated than they already are. I DO NOT wanna have to try and figure out how to add money to this mess ;)

Agree agree agree agree. Upon even further review the very last thing you need is more clutter.

Skip this, in fact just add its element into a quick good card.

Quote:

I have considered killing off keyboards and then I wouldnt need stage hands. See, I want to have just slightly fewer performance crew members than performing musicians, so if I kill of the keyboards I think I'll be fine with doing away with stagehands and maybe even the pyro guys.

Quote:

Also if I lower the number of players

Quote:

Ill think about putting the venue cards into a table rather than a deck and maybe print the fan base stats directly onto the board

Quote:

I want to thank everyone for the replys, all have been helpfull and/or thought provoking.

Anytime.

Thu, 06/09/2005 - 04:49

#23

Anonymous

My rock and roll touring game.

Quote:

from websters:

2 a : a personal magic of leadership arousing special popular loyalty or enthusiasm for a public figure (as a political leader) b : a special magnetic charm or appeal

Celebrity:

1 : the state of being celebrated
2 : a celebrated person

I dont want to say a person in a garage band is celebrated, nobody knows who he is yet (at least at the begining of the game). Yes he has that certain something, but he has yet to use it...see what I mean?

Here is one that might sound better...

Quote:

Presence:

5 a : the bearing, carriage, or air of a person; especially : stately or distinguished bearing b : a quality of poise and effectiveness that enables a performer to achieve a close relationship with an audience

C.

Thu, 06/09/2005 - 05:32

#24

Anonymous

My rock and roll touring game.

Quote:

I would like for this to be somewhat educational for my lil girl to play in a few years.

That's cute. :)

Sun, 06/12/2005 - 00:55

#25

Anonymous

My rock and roll touring game.

I have run into a snag, maybe it's a dumb snag but here goes.

"Musician" is a very ugly word. And it looks like hell anyway I have tried to print it. This is for the back of the musician deck, so even though its just a prototype printed on business cards, I still want it to look nice if possible and this problem wont get any better later on.

What I need is suggestions about words to use instead of "Musician Deck" or anything with Musician in it. I just dont like the way the word appears when its printed out. I have tried "Talent Pool" but im not real hot on it either. Havent seen any clipart that fit what im lookin for.

Anyone have any ideas on this?

This wasnt a problem before I combined the decks, some will probably say it's not an issue now, but it bugs me.

Anyway I have the business card sheets and im working toward a playable prototype,for the musician and road crew decks anyway.

C.

Sun, 06/12/2005 - 01:45

#26

Nando

Offline

Joined: 07/22/2008

My rock and roll touring game.

Captain_Black wrote:

What I need is suggestions about words to use instead of "Musician Deck" or anything with Musician in it.

Band Cards? Band Member Cards? Group Member Cards? Performers? Recruits? Try-outs? Dudes? Crew? Superstars? Stars? Players? (Playahs?) Wanna-Be Deck? Artists? Music Makers? Team Cards?

I like the sound of Dudes and Performers.

Sun, 06/12/2005 - 14:13

#27

Anonymous

My rock and roll touring game.

Looks like I will probably go with "Musical Artists" this time around, Nando,

Thanks man.

C.

Sun, 06/12/2005 - 20:24

#28

Anonymous

My rock and roll touring game.

Captain_Black wrote:

I dont want to say a person in a garage band is celebrated, nobody knows who he is yet (at least at the begining of the game). Yes he has that certain something, but he has yet to use it...see what I mean?

Well its more so "he has celebrity power or potential." Like a musicians celebrity factor if you will.

Websters is great, but real world, when someone sees a stand out musician in a going nowhere band, they say that guy is gonna be a star, that guy is a star, a rockstar, celebrity, etc

Quote:

Here is one that might sound better...

Presence:

Love it, and one of my favorite Zep albums to boot.

Captain_Black wrote:

I have run into a snag, maybe it's a dumb snag but here goes.

Hey now, no snag is a dumb snag, except maybe that one where you were going for the long cast and caught the tree branch with your dad's $50.00 lure.

Quote:

What I need is suggestions about words to use instead of "Musician Deck" or anything with Musician in it. I just dont like the way the word appears when its printed out. I have tried "Talent Pool" but im not real hot on it either. Havent seen any clipart that fit what im lookin for.

Anyone have any ideas on this?

From experience: Musicians like to be known as Artists... not even recording or musical artists... but just ARTISTS... and this looks pretty good printed out, very powerful one single word.

FYI when a song is published that has a bevy of talent involved, the credits are always listed as "Various Artists" (not musical, etc)

As far as your questions about the look and feel of the card, the international symbol for rock is the guitar, so for the card backs I was thinking something along these lines (roughly of course):

Sun, 06/12/2005 - 21:44

#29

Anonymous

My rock and roll touring game.

yeah, i was thinking "artist" also

Mon, 06/13/2005 - 00:42

#30

Anonymous

My rock and roll touring game.

Wow, that sample looks really close to what I have in mind for the finished game. Hard to say what my partner will have to show, this game started out basicly as an excuse for him to do some rock and roll cards. He really has the last say as to any art direction we go in. From what I can tell he is favoring very cartooish, caricatured imagery for the card faces, who knows what will be on the back.

In anycase this is just a prototype and the backs only have to serve the purpose of seperating the sets. Im just using the plainest, ink stingy text that looked any good. Once more let me just say "musician" is an ugly word. :lol:

Artist looks pretty good alone, I'll go with that and make the changes to my design doc. Thanks guys. nicework there, bobby

Still adding stuff, trying to figure out a way to do records and radio play ("Top 10" style popularity charts... not finished). Not sure if its needed or not, might contribute to run away leader situation, though I suppose it might be of more help to stragglers than to the leaders.

I would balance the boost by forcing players to stay in a venue city for 2-3 full turns with no gigs played no contacts made and no chance cards while the record is produced. not ready to show the record production bit yet....soon though, I hope.

C.

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