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Obsessive Compulsive Game Design

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Pt314
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Joined: 12/31/1969

Many times when I am working on a game I feel like I need to have the same consistancy in the game design everywhere. This drags out my design, trying to come up with new things, just to fill in the spaces in some parts of the game.

Example: In the fantasy tactics game I am working on right now, I have several catragories of units. I have warriors, spellcasters, undead, beast, magical beast, construct, demon, and elemental. The thing is that I have 12 warriors, 12 spellcasters, 12 undead, and 12 demon types. I have less than 12 in the other catagories, and I am having a hard time going forward without making them have 12 units also.

I am just wondering if anyone here has the same problem when designing games. Or if anyone can give me any advice, or thoughts on whether or not a game needs to have the same consistancy.

OutsideLime
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Obsessive Compulsive Game Design

I would say that your issue here is that you think consistency is required to achieve balance. I don't think it is. You don't need 12 different unit types for each army. Imagine this simple example:

1 army has 2 different units, each with 3 special abilities.
1 army has 3 different units, each with 2 special abilities.

Inconsistent, but balanced. Theoretically, anyway... the abilities themselves would have to be balanced as well, but that is an issue for playtesting to discover.

Have you tested the game at all yet? It might be that you are getting ahead of youself... try developing two armies and seeing if the whole thing works, is balanced, and most importantly, is fun to play. (man sometimes I develop a whole game and realize that I forgot that last one... ) Then start adding armies... I am working on a similar game to yours and I found that this was the best way to proceed... Sure, I have tons of great ideas for the armies that are undeveloped as yet, but they will keep just fine on notepaper until I am sure that the game itself works. Achieving balance is easier with fewer elements (ie armies) and once you have achieved it (or APPROACHED it, let's be real) it's much easier to duplicate the "weight" for newer armies instead of trying to decide upon weights for everything all at once.

Just my thoughts

~Josh

Nando
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Joined: 07/22/2008
Re: Obsessive Compulsive Game Design

Pt314 wrote:
Many times when I am working on a game I feel like I need to have the same consistancy in the game design everywhere.

I'm like this. I think it's a glitch in the personality. It is a drag. I especially do it with words. If I have 3 things that I want to name, I will search high and low for 3 names that have the same number of letters. It's just a glitch.

The word thing is just weird. But for other things, I think it's a healthy appreciation for the beauty of symmetry. And as for me, I also think symmetry is good for helping people remember things (rules, etc.). But at some point, I think I began to let go of it because I learned that good games have drama, and drama is enhanced more by asymmetry (with its feeling of uncertainty and seeming instability) than by symmetry (with its feeling of certainty and seeming stability).

I don't have a good answer for ignoring the tendency, but as I've refined my main design (after continuous learning and application), it seems like the tendency has somewhat subsided (hopefully as a side-effect of embracing the principles of good design).

larienna
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Joined: 07/28/2008
Obsessive Compulsive Game Design

Here is a few tip from my experience. First of all, don't do the whole game design from head to tails. Write some idea or make a vague draft of the rules. Work on it for a few weeks then pass to something else not related to this game. If you come up with a few idea you add it but you don't develop them. A few month later, ( when you get back in the mood to develop your game again)you read your design again.

By rereading your game design, you will find a few bug or stupid idea and you will come up with new idea. Rewrite or complete the rules you have written. If it is not complete, leave it for a month or two and refine your game design again util your game is complete.

It might look that it takes a long time but it allows you to get each time a different point of view about your game. It will also make sure that you never get bored and always have fun desinging the game.

Finally, sharing the game rules with other players is essential to see their point of view. They will see things that you did not.

Infernal
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Obsessive Compulsive Game Design

Quote:
There is a gate in Japan, a gate in Neiko, which is sometimes called by the Japanese the most beautiful gate in all Japan; it was built in a time when there was a great influence from Chinese art. This gate is very eleborate, with lots of gables and beautiful carving and lots of dragon heads and princes carved into the pillars, and so on. But when one looks closely he sees that in the elaborate and complex design along one of the pillars, one of the small design elements is carved upside down; otherwise the thing is completely symmetrical. If one asks why this is, the story is that it was carved upside down so that the gods will not be jealous of the perfection of man.

-The Feynman Lectures on Physics, Volume One
I like this quote as it demonstrates that things can be more interesting is they have a "just broken" symmetry (the gate would just be another beatufully carved gate otherwise).

Symmetry does not alwayse lead to something better, in fact it can make it look bland.

As for the number of units. It is easier to balance a small number of units/options for a game than trying to balance lots. Also it is easier to scale up (after balanceing the minimum) than scale down a design, while retaining the balance.

If you must have a symitry in uniots start with a few (say 3) for each army then once you have balanced these you can start to add 1 or 2 more units at a time and balance them. You will also find it easier to create "flavour" between the armies because you will be able to see new ways of using new units.

For example:
I tend to use the Archer, Pikeman, Light cavalry unbits as a base, becaues it can be balanced easily.

From her I decide that I want another units for the Humans, Dwarves and Elves.

For the humnas I create a Heavy Cavalry that can take and deal more damage than the Light Cavalry (but only available to humans).

For the Elves I create the Long Bowman, which has a greater range than the standard archer (but only available to elves).

For the Dwarves I create the Dwarven Shield Barer. This unit can take more damage that the normal pikeman (but only available to dwarves).

You could also add noncombat units like resource colecters and such in this same method. This method allows you to keep adding units untill you have a wide variety of units and the number that you want.

However the best guideline is K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Stupid. :wink:

FastLearner
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Obsessive Compulsive Game Design

I'm with you, PT. I do the same thing a lot, knowing full well that it's not necessarily good game design -- just something that "should" be done. It's really the mark of OCD: when you feel like things should be a very certain way, even though you know full well that there's no logical reason for it, and in fact the world doesn't come to an end when it doesn't turn out that way. Yet nonetheless you are compelled.

I've managed to overcome it with most of my designs. There are times when that symmetry is absolutely essential, especially things hidden from the players. For example, if you have 3 types of goods someone can buy for later resale, and there's nothing in the game system that indicates which goods are more valuable or rare, but in fact the odds are skewed and one good is more available, another comparitively rare, you're screwing the players and they don't know it. The guy who chose corn may have lost simply because the system is balanced against corn winning, yet this is unrevealed. In cases where you're going to be asymmetrical, you've gotta make it clear to the players that the asymmetry exists, and what the impact is. And not just in the rules.

But you know that. I'm borderline OCD, I suspect, but am "lucky" to have a brother who is full-blown OCD, so I can tell just how close to the border I really am. :)

-- Matthew

Pt314
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Obsessive Compulsive Game Design

I think I am going to go through another session of throwing stuff out, and then make a simpler prototype. This just drives me crazy.

I am kind of relieved that I am not the only one here with this problem. (BTW FastLearner, I am diagnosed with OCD, it isn't that bad unless I don't take my meds, or if I am super stressed. My brother has it MUCH worse than I do.)

phpbbadmin
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Joined: 04/23/2013
Obsessive Compulsive Game Design

Pt314 wrote:
I think I am going to go through another session of throwing stuff out, and then make a simpler prototype. This just drives me crazy.

I am kind of relieved that I am not the only one here with this problem. (BTW FastLearner, I am diagnosed with OCD, it isn't that bad unless I don't take my meds, or if I am super stressed, my brother has it MUCH wrose than I do.)

Yeah they're are different levels of OCD as with many 'mental ailments'. What I think is interesting is that sometimes you can use these diseases to your advantage. For instance, I have ADD. I work at a job where I have to constantly switch from one task to another, never able to really complete any task in a single sitting. I'm not sure I would do as well as I do if it weren't for the ADD. With OCD, you may find you excel at jobs where it is very important to pay attention to detail (of course, I am stereotyping OCD people a tad here). I have a few friends who are borderline OCD (in my eyes) who are really good computer programmers. So take the lemons that life has given, and by God make some lemonade!

-Darke
(and now we return to our normally on topic thread).

Hedge-o-Matic
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Joined: 07/30/2008
Obsessive Compulsive Game Design

OCD might be handy if you were into painting miniatures for wargames. I work with ADD/ADHD kids as a teacher, and I noticed that I've had a lot of luck with them in self-modulation by using games. Like many other things, these conditions are, to some degree, capable of being "nudged" one way or another, either to control them (focussing when you have to), or to use them constructively (multi-tasking).

As for designing games, though, my style is to do a full "pass" first, getting down rough ideas of the game from start to finish, and then doing another pass and refining them all to roughly the same level, and so on. This allows me to prune things with minimal waste of work.

As far as games with army-lists, though, I generally create a generic test army, and then hammer on the core rules, fighting with test forces, before even setting up a real force list. The core of these games is too rife with emergent complexity to see all that might go wrong with additional details. I'd suggest doing the same. Build a solid skeleton before adding muscles, much less a bunch of body hair and tatoos.

Anonymous
Obsessive Compulsive Game Design

I'm very nitpicky with design. I like things working in concert, sticking to certain themes, having a certain common ground, or doing things in sets/series -- everything has 3 attributes/aspects instead of some having 2 and others having 3... So yes, I'm fairly OC/AR about game design from that standpoint.

For some reason, I also like things in multiples of 10, which is a real pain in the butt for card games, since 55 card decks are common.

Qundar
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Obsessive Compulsive Game Design

Hi,

I think I'm borderline OC. Things for me a lot of times must have symetry. Not always, I can go the other way, but only if symetry absolutely will not work. I also am very AR. I drive my family crazy, ha. Always rearanging things and such cause they aren't right. They then mess stuff up on purpose just to get me. Cause they know I can't resist it. Ever seen the TV show Monk? That's me, though taken to a whole new level. Ha.

Live long and prosper, Qundar out.

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