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Playability of an 'epic' strategy game?

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Anonymous

I'm working on developing what I've given the working title of an 'epic' strategy game. The premise behind this is that even though a particular game session may only take 20-40 minutes, the game can continue untill one player has acheived all the requirements of a more absolute 'match' victory. The effect of this is an ongoing game that builds upon itself as each individual game progresses. I've accounted for an always changing experience such that the strategy of each session is different and exciting. Tbe game is played with two people and the effect of each session leaves you wondering how you are going to strategically outwit your opponent the next time you meet to play. In my alpha testing, the small community who I've worked with have shown an appreciation for this and have agreed that assuming I work out a few kinks in the rules to improve the flow, the game shows a good deal of potential. The question that I pose to my fellow game designers is this: Can you envision enjoying a game that may take 6-10 sessions to conclude? assuming that the replayability is kept fresh and interesting? Any comments/ concerns or ideas would be much appreciated.

This post may be difficult to interpret as I'm not going to be giving much information as to the rules or design of my game. I also feel its important to say that although I enjoy gaming, my experience is restricted to a few select titles. So any commentary / information would be appreciated but if you make reference to existing games, please give a brief explanation or link to rules.

DSfan
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Playability of an 'epic' strategy game?

Hello GPenguin,

I would first of all like to point out that I (personally) would not like to play a game that takes 6-10 sessions, unless it is an ever changing game, and a really good game.

Second this sounds like it would be a better (and maybe faster paced) game if it were played with more than 2 people. Why make it only 2 when more players would still leave it a "thinking" game.

Like I said before, I would not even give a game like this a shot unless it was some kind of ever changing game. Maybe something like the land changes as the game progress (Such as valleys form when fighting occurs on that part to much) or water erodes away adjacant terrain.

I hope this helps some, as I really don't know a lot about the game.

Good luck,
-Justin

Anonymous
Playability of an 'epic' strategy game?

I suppose a little more information is required-

The basis of the game utilizes rpg style experience... (think Mordheim (Games Workshop) only severely downsized with a strong emphasis on strategic play). In a sense your "army" is ever changing, and as the game progresses (from session to session) you are 'rewarded' with stronger/ more varied strategic tools and more content. The addition of these strategic tools is what provides the added fun with each succesive game. In response to being only two player: The game requires extremely delicate tweaking of elements in order to enable a multitude of strategies feasable, yet all equally useful for different situations. Thus no one strategy is more powerful than any others, yet they are all useful in different situations. At this point in time, adding additional players will upset the balance which I've been working on for the past three months to reach. I hope this further information helps. I appreciate all responses and the more insight I'm given from people other than my somewhat secluded testing community the better. TY

Anonymous
Playability of an 'epic' strategy game?

I've contemplated designs before that would be multi-session. However 6-10 sessions seems like too much, that's several months of commitment to a game. If I were to work on a project like that I'd try and work it out to a three session structure.

If you are trying to do something mordheim like I can certainly appreciate the need for more sessions, but ultimately it comes down to how you could market such a game. Mordheim works because it's a crossover between miniatures and an rpg. While not impossible, it just seems like it would be a harder sell to do something like this in a boardgame format, at least from a marketing perspective.

Scurra
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Playability of an 'epic' strategy game?

Completely unrelated to your design but taking some of the same ideas is the GIPF project.
The idea here is that there is a basic game (GIPF) and a series of companion games (TAMSK, DVONN, YINSH etc.), all of which can be played perfectly happily on their own.
However, there are also some pieces (known as Potentials) which can be introduced into the original game. These confer particular bonuses under various conditions (or none.) However - and assuming you both agree beforehand! - then your opponent can try to neutralise your use of the Potential by challenging you to a side-game - generally one of the other GIPF Project games according to which Potential you are trying to use. And if they win, they get to cancel your bonus in the original game.

So over one game of GIPF you might actually play several other games, each of which has an impact on the outcome of the original game.
It's a clever concept, but perhaps a little too ambitious (I have enough trouble with the individual games; putting them together is frankly terrifying!)

It captures the idea of an evolving game that is impacted by actions that occur outside of the original game.

[In a similarly fashion, I've been exploring a sort of "campaign mode" idea for Lost Cities; there are a bunch of special cards that confer bonuses and each player starts the "campaign" with some of them and has the chance to win some more by meeting certain criteria within subsequent games. But you can only use one special card during a game, and once a card has been used it is gone for the rest of the campaign - and the cards are also additional VP markers at the end, so if you use them, you are forfeiting future points. The idea was that since a game of Lost Cities can be quite short (and made even shorter using these cards!), a whole campaign could be conducted in an evening, or spread over several sessions, as long as you track who had what cards and which ones had been used.]

Anonymous
Playability of an 'epic' strategy game?

I like the idea of having 6-10 segments as long as each can be completed in under an hour. That way, you can probably finish the contest itself in one or two sessions. Another benefit is that you could probably clean up the game between sessions provided you completed the current segment. For gamers with kids, cats or both, that is always a plus.

One of the coolest things about the game Imperium was that the war would end and both sides would have the ability to retool. So there were multiple wars during a single game. The 3rd milenium edition had that feature but the interwar period was too long and got boring.

Anonymous
Playability of an 'epic' strategy game?

I appreciate everyones imput, and yes I agree that two of the hardest aspectst of this idea are maintaining the games enjoyability as well as keeping it simple enough for those who don't feel like playing the game tons of times before they pick up on strategy / rules. A game with "too much strategy" can find all its small strategic variances lost in a sea of meaninglessness (and even worse, uselessness).

If anyone has any more insight I'd love to hear it!

Thanks

DSfan
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Playability of an 'epic' strategy game?

Is the game played on a fixed board, or tiles?

Anonymous
Playability of an 'epic' strategy game?

The board is fixed, but you shouldn't rule out replayability based solely on that...
Keep the thoughts coming

Thanks

akacamper
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Playability of an 'epic' strategy game?

I tried playing a game of LOTR's risk kinda this way. everytime you attacked someone you would play the battles out with the LOTR minitures game. it was fun but long. never finished. each piece on the risk board counted as 50 points you could add to your army in the minitures game.

Is your game like this where you have a main board and then you move to a separate board to do the fights? If this is kinda the way your game is i can try to tell you more.

akacamper

Hedge-o-Matic
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Playability of an 'epic' strategy game?

Scurra, you beat me to it! The GIPF project was my first thought, especially as I'm developing abstract strategy games I hope to link together somehow, and am considering ideas other than the "hub game" idea of GIPF.

But even thinking about this caused me to consider the multi-session aspect of the overall game. One of the challenges of playing a "full" game of Gipf, with all the other games thrown in, is keeping you GIPF board from being fatally jostled over the days or weeks it may take to play through. Keeping game notation would become critical.

The other analogy that came to mind was that of Necromunda, which was the game Mordehiem was based of of. Orgak brings up the good point that having multiple segments is a different thing than having multiple sessions, as normally multiple segments will fit into a given session. This is a good thing, allowing the game to be packed up between sessions. Umless youhave a dedicated gaming studio, of course. 8)

I personally really like the idea of an evolving game, and, years ago, developed a few games that took an epic amount of time to play (like the old-school wargames used to). But I sense you're doing something a bit different. You've revealed very little of your project's details, but here are my questions:

1.) What purpose does the multiple-session format serve? Is it to allow thoughtful downtime? Is there meaningful prep-work to be done between sessions or segments? In Necromunda, shuffling equipment around and working on your miniatures filled the downtime meaningfuly.

2.) Is the multiple-session format a function of length, or is it implied by the different nature of the elements, such as in Project Gipf? Gipf sub-games are very different animals than Gipf itself, and changing mindset before playing can only be helpful. Even if there was sufficient time to play all the games at once sitting, a break of a day or so would hardly be a bad thing, unless you're doing some sort of "Ironman GIPF".

3.) Are the sessions distinct in a predictable way? That is, can I play session 4 knowing that I'll need this or that result to be successful in session 5, which is a distinct challenge? If so, then your game could be modular, with the modules argeed to beforehand, thus allowing the players to dictate the length to some extent. Even a few simple scenarios, such as Full Scale War (modules 1-8), Blitz (Modules 1, 4, and 8), Pocket War (Modules 1, 2, 4, 6, 8), and so on.

In closing, I'd suggest formulating your idea as to what game objectives the format serves. Otherwise, it's a lot to ask, for few clear rewards over a shorter game.

Anonymous
Playability of an 'epic' strategy game?

My appoligies, I've been gone for the last five days and haven't had a chance to check my thread. That being said I'd like to respond to your questions hedge-o-matic.

1)The multiple session format serves as both thoughtful downtime and prep work. I know I've hinted very little about my game, but it does contain elements of a rpg, therefore yes, between sessions, there is a an amount of 'utility advancement' which requires strategic decisons from players, but does not necessitate interaction between the two players.

2)The multiple session format is the result of two things. First, the game has rewarding elements, as play progresses. To give an analogy of how this is effective: If your playing DnD, Diablo 2, Everquest, whatever your prefered brand of rpg may be, is it fun to get the +20 Sword of Armagedon in the first 20 minutes? My project allows those type of rewards, giving the player something to work towards, and feeling fufilled once he/she has obtained it.
Second, there isn't sufficient time to complete an entire 'epic game' in one sitting. Perhaps the "Power Gamer" could do it, but my project is designed to be quick and easy to set up and pick up at the end of a session, and the just as easy to pick up where you left off.

3) A given session is not distinct. It is merely an evolved form of the previous session.

Akacamper-
No the board is simply an 8x8 chess style board, with three different colored squares. All the 'fights' occur on it but in a sense, each session is like one aspect of a larger battle.

Once again, sorry for the delay in response. If the thread doesn't die, more responses are appreciated.

Thanks

Jebbou
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Playability of an 'epic' strategy game?

I have played both Necromunda and Heroquest, which both have the same play sequence as you describe. The thing I found necromunda did well, is balance. Because as the characters level advance, you have to make sure no one falls behind. Or you might loose players much before you reach the +20 Sword of Armagedon. In Heroquest, we had decided to share the resources and equip in the best interest of the team, thus no one would fall behind.

Anonymous
Playability of an 'epic' strategy game?

Agreed- Balance is key to my game as well. The difference between Nercromunda , Hero's Quest and my game I believe is a distinct strategic component. But A key component in winning the "epic" game is actually leaving the other player behind. Overpowering him/her in a series of sessions is one of the conditions to winning. This however does not occur by chance, its purely a product of the strategic decisions a player makes. Both players are given an absolutely level playing field at the start of the game as well. Thanks for posts! keep them coming

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