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'The Player Of Games' (by Iain M Banks)

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Tue, 08/23/2005 - 18:27
Nestalawe
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Hey ya'll,

Just got back from a couple of gorgeous weeks in a Tuscan villa ;)

While there (in between bottle sof wine, sunbathing, swimming in the Medditeranean and admiring bronzed bodies...) I finished off reading 'The Player of Games' by Iain M. Banks.

This post will only really be of relevance to those who have read the book, but may induce other to read it!

A review can be found here -

http://www.techsoc.com/player.htm

What I am interested in, are thoughts by others who have read the book, about the game of Azad. It would be very cool to find out more information on the game, how much Bank knows about the game, if anyone has put any effort into learning or developing it any further (if possible!) or how it may have influenced anyone in their designs.

I have some ideas on a game from reading the book, and will deevlop it further once other projects are out of the way, but I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has read the book...

If anyone wants any more info about this, let me know...

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Tue, 08/23/2005 - 20:05
#1
Gogolski
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'The Player Of Games' (by Iain M Banks)

I read 'Player of Games' and loved it. It inspired me to experiment for a while "advanced" checkers-thingies/rules. (nothing like the game of Azad, just stacking checker-stones and making moves with formations of several cheker-stones and some other stuff... I should probably pick my notes up someday...)

On the Game of Azad, I must first remark that Gurgeh took years of learning the game. It looks like a combination of very advanced chess, the ultimate strategy game and the ultimate war game. Whatever those may be...
Constructing yhe game of azad is probably quiet improbable... I recomment to start thinking at Chess, then add movement-rules like activating tiles in Twilight Imperium, and then write a two thousond page booklet about it. (hm...kidding...hm) I just think it's hard to grasp the magnitude of this game, that's all.

As for Iain M Banks, I like what I've read of him. 'The Culture' is an interesting concept; if you haven't read other culture novels, I can advise you to do so. (I haven't read any of his sience fiction non-culture-novels.) He also writes under the name of Iain Banks (without the M...), good stuff too, but no sience fiction, check out...

Cheese!

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Wed, 08/24/2005 - 06:31
#2
Scurra
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'The Player Of Games' (by Iain M Banks)

Gogolski wrote:
He also writes under the name of Iain Banks (without the M...), good stuff too, but no science fiction, check out...

I guess that depends upon your definition of science-fiction - it doesn't have to be spaceships and big guns you know ;-) The fun is in reading the critics (who love Iain Banks-without-an-M but hate Iain M. Banks) trying to pretend that somehow there is a difference between them (and, worse, trying to make out that one is somehow "literature" where the other isn't...)

I suspect there may be room on here (or maybe the new wiki, whenever it finally arrives ;-) for a whole section on "fictional" games; there are probably half-a-dozen or so that I can think of which are tantalisingly described in various works that are described in more than passing detail whilst obviously not having been worked out by the author beyond their need for the story.

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Wed, 08/24/2005 - 07:00
#3
Nestalawe
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'The Player Of Games' (by Iain M Banks)

Gogolski wrote:
...and then write a two thousond page booklet about it. (hm...kidding...hm) I just think it's hard to grasp the magnitude of this game, that's all.

Heh, I agree, it is of course a monster game, far beyond the imaginings of what we would consider a monster game today...

One of the more interesting aspects of the game (for me) as playing on multiple boards, gaining advantages for the advanced boards earlier on. I quite like the concept of 'mini-games' leading onto larger games and lending themselves to different strategies.

The inspiration it gave me was to create an area-control chess type wargame, based on a point-to-point movement map made up of a series of different coloured criss-crossing lines. The ability to bring new pieces onto the board, coupled with being able to either capture or destroy enemy pieces also interested me.

Scurra wrote:
I suspect there may be room on here (or maybe the new wiki, whenever it finally arrives ;-) for a whole section on "fictional" games.

I'd be keen to see that, would be a good source of inspiration as well. I seem to remember a friend telling me about a CJ Cherryh novel which included a game which was easy to win quickly, but the point of the game was to either make it last or purely enjoy the game?

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Sat, 08/27/2005 - 14:06
#4
dete
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'The Player Of Games' (by Iain M Banks)

I never read the book,

but I've been workin on a so called

The Ultimate Absolute Indefinite Chess for 15 yrs.

One of the qualities it has, since it boasts such a
huge name, is that it has the ability to evolve.

It cannot be contained within 1 game, so in essence
it is composed of 2 parts.

System & Game

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Mon, 03/27/2006 - 11:16
#5
HyveMynd
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'The Player Of Games' (by Iain M Banks)

I know that this post is rather old, but I think that it is appropriate to "respond" to it. I just finished the book (today in fact), and reading it was what inspired me to take up game designing again. I was really intrigued with the concepts in some of the "imaginary" games he came up with. Like the color changing pyramids, the 3D web, and the hidden token dials.

As far as Azad goes, I doubt that you'd be able to "recreate" it. Atleast without getting alot more information then is provided in the book. At best you could probably only hope to make a game that uses some if the books ideas and call it "Azad".

I was also intriqued by the idea of different boards and sub-games. I like the concept of having linked games, where your position or how well you finish gives you an advantage (or disadvantage) for the next game. Almost like a "tree campaign" in wargames. Player A wins, you proceed down this path, player B wins you go down the other one. Each new battle has different conditions or rules based on the outcome of the last one. But more so than the linked subgames, I was interested in the "biotech" pieces. The concept of pieces "growing" through the course of the game is a really cool one in my opinion. And I don't mean pieces just getting more powerful, but actually CHANGING. Attributes like movement, the way they capture, things like that. I'm not sure HOW you could do it, but I'm looking into it, because I think that it has possibilities.

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Mon, 03/27/2006 - 11:22
#6
Nestalawe
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'The Player Of Games' (by Iain M Banks)

Hey Hyve!

Yeah there is some really good stuff in there - the evolution of game pieces and structure is interesting.

Reminds me a bit of the Mao card game, which evolves as you play it, if you can ever get anyone to play it with you.

I have been working on a game inspired by the book, though I have tried to make it fairly abstract and simple. I haven't worked on it for a while, but I am keen to test it more. You can read the rules here as long as you excuse a few minor errors in the reading...

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Mon, 03/27/2006 - 12:13
#7
TheReluctantGeneral
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'The Player Of Games' (by Iain M Banks)

HyveMynd wrote:
it was what inspired me to take up game designing again. I was really intrigued with the concepts in some of the "imaginary" games he came up with. Like the color changing pyramids, the 3D web, and the hidden token dials.

Ditto for me too! I think there must be a large number of budding game designers with similar experiences!

Quote:
The concept of pieces "growing" through the course of the game is a really cool one in my opinion. And I don't mean pieces just getting more powerful, but actually CHANGING. Attributes like movement, the way they capture, things like that. I'm not sure HOW you could do it, but I'm looking into it, because I think that it has possibilities.

Imagine a game board in which the board itself is a computer, as are all the pieces, and they talk with wifi or RFID comms. That might just do it. I posted an item along these lines in the 'New Genres Anyone' thread a while back. Whether it would be playable is another matter, and of course that level of ubiquitous computing is a rather sci-fi idea at the moment, but then so is the book...

Now to read Nestalwe's rules..

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Mon, 03/27/2006 - 13:27
#8
Hedge-o-Matic
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'The Player Of Games' (by Iain M Banks)

As a writer, I've featured games in a lot of my writing. Usually, this is just background detail, without any relevant to the plot, but even so, I always design the game first, just in case a character comments on the action, or makes any observation at all. After all, how can a game even be described without existing in some form? Though I never explain game rules within books, even describing basic game actions requires a rules set, and, as a designer, I can't stand the thought of an obviously flawed game idea taking root in one of my stories.

The nice thing about writing fiction is that you can create cultures wherein people love their particular games (which you've invented for them) in the same way our current culture loves Chess or Go. Deep thinking and strategic thought, coupled with a lack of limitations (such as hovering pieces, transmutation, and so on) is too tempting for a writer who designs games. I don't make way-out games for my stories, generally, but rather like having cultural power revolving around a simple boardgame any of us might play (rather simple abstracts, usually).

This leads me into a lot of deep thinking (or what passes for deep thinking) about what sort of games captivate various cultures, and what traits and themes they might explore in their games. Since writing a fantasy or SF novel or short story involves creating the culture wholesale, these considerations are relevant, even if the specific games are not.

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Mon, 03/27/2006 - 14:06
#9
Hedge-o-Matic
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'The Player Of Games' (by Iain M Banks)

Nestalawe wrote:
I have been working on a game inspired by the book...

This game seems really interesting. Let me re-read it before offering anything further, though. Love the map idea! Have you tested this yet, even solo?

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Mon, 03/27/2006 - 16:04
#10
Nestalawe
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'The Player Of Games' (by Iain M Banks)

Hedge-o-Matic wrote:
Nestalawe wrote:
I have been working on a game inspired by the book...

This game seems really interesting. Let me re-read it before offering anything further, though. Love the map idea! Have you tested this yet, even solo?

Hey Hedge!

Yeah I have had half a dozen playtests. It works fairly well, though I need to rejig the winning conditions - which are currently to control a city on 5 of the six colours of lines.

Also needs a bit of work on the action mechanics - but it is still quite fun, and very interesting to play - though not for the colour blind ;)

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Tue, 03/28/2006 - 10:55
#11
katie
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'The Player Of Games' (by Iain M Banks)

"I suspect there may be room on here (or maybe the new wiki, whenever it finally arrives ;-) for a whole section on "fictional" games"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_games

There's quite a few on there.

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