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Tiles or Pre-printed board?

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DSfan
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Joined: 12/31/1969

First of the title; Would pre-made be the write word of a graphic of territorys being already on a board? Like Risk, and many others.

Anyways, I was wondering why some game boards are made of of tiles, while others aren't. Is there even a reason behind it? Or do they just do it for no good reason.

Thanks,
-Justin

FastLearner
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Tiles or Pre-printed board?

"Pre-printed" map or board is perhaps a more common term. That or "fixed."

There are at least two reasons to use tiles instead of a fixed board:

1. Variation: with tiles, every game is different. This can add interest and can help keep an imbalanced layout (that isn't fully accounted for in testing) from becoming a problem. No building up your armies like crazy in Australia before finally jumping out and taking over the world. At least not every game. Settlers of Catan uses this concept, both with the hex tiles themselves and with the number chits.

2. Gameplay: laying the tiles down, making strategic choices about where to place them and how to orient them can be a lot of fun, and can require some real cleverness. This becomes one of the key parts of the game, then. Lots of games, including Carcassonne (which is almost all about tile-laying), use this.

As for why you might want a fixed board instead, though, each of those has downsides.

1. Variation: it's quite possible that the randomized variation of the board makes the game this play very unbalanced and not fun. If you've every played Settlers where the Wood resource is only created on rolls of, say, 2, 3, or 12 on two dice, you know how awful it can be: the game absolutely requires a lot of the wood resource, and while players can get around it, the game can suffer, especially if those wood are clumped together in one part of the island. In a game like El Grande, being able to say (as the designer) "this territory only has two neighbors, while this one has five" is an important part of the design. Controlling the variation can be done sometimes through rules, but that can get pretty fiddly. Often control is established by simply pre-printing the map.

In addition, there are lots of fun "flavor" elements that you can have with a pre-printed map that don't exist with a randomized layout. Barbarians from the North, seafaring Greeks, what have you. For historically-based games, a fixed board is often essential.

2. Gameplay: If you want the game to be about placing tiles, great! If you want the game to be about something else, though, placing tiles can take a lot of time and brainpower, and may distract from (and complicate) the other parts of the game. A fixed board allows players to focus on other stuff.

-- Matthew

Anonymous
Tiles or Pre-printed board?

i had been working on a space game with a randomly set up hex board for each new game.

the reason for using tiles is to have a different game every time.

the problems i ran into are:

1. size
2. balance
3. neatness

1. not a huge issue, but i wanted a large board with many hexes. i think really large boards are a turn-off to your average game player.

2. as mentioned above--you never know what you're going to get.

3. i don't know about you, but my settlers of catan board gets knocked around a bit and its only 19 tiles. imagine trying to keep 100+ hexes neatly arranged.

my solution was coming up with a variety of fixed boards to make for a variety of game situations. much like formula de you can include two boards with the game and then create expansion boards if the game catches on.

Anonymous
Tiles or Pre-printed board?

Quote:
1. not a huge issue, but i wanted a large board with many hexes. i think really large boards are a turn-off to your average game player.

I'm on both sides of the coin on this one.

I personally love the idea of neat compact little games that can set up in seconds using standard (even if customized) components and picturing the kid walking to school with my game on his person or in his backpack. "Excuse me young man, but is that MY game in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?"

On the other hand, the Axis & Allies comminty is among some of the most loyal and hardcore boardgamers known to mankind, and that is one big bad board.

So I dunno.

However, expansion boards is something very *appealing* i think, I have often thought ahead and included such a concept when in my drunken pre-planning stages.

Anonymous
Tiles or Pre-printed board?

Brahmulus wrote:
Quote:
1. not a huge issue, but i wanted a large board with many hexes. i think really large boards are a turn-off to your average game player.

I'm on both sides of the coin on this one. I personally love the idea of neat compact little games that can set up in seconds using standard (even if customized) components and picturing teh kid walking to school with my game in his pocket or backpack.

On the other hand, the Axis & Allies comminty are among some of the most loyal and hardcore boardgame fans ever known to the man, and that is one big bad board.

So I dunno.

However, expansion boards is something very *appealing* i think, I have often thought ahead and included such a concept when pre-planning.

i thought axis and allies was big until i saw "war" or something like that (by eagle). and formula de. those boards eat axis and allies for breakfast lol

Anonymous
Tiles or Pre-printed board?

Quote:

i thought axis and allies was big until i saw "war" or something like that (by eagle). and formula de. those boards eat axis and allies for breakfast lol

Interesting.

The *house* that Eagle Games operates out of is located in what was once, not too long ago, a cornfield, where yours truly used to run around and do whatever it was I did back then.

Anonymous
Tiles or Pre-printed board?

Brahmulus wrote:
The *house* that Eagle Games operates out of is located in what was once, not too long ago, a cornfield, where yours truly used to run around and do whatever it was I did back then.

interesting.

actually the size thing was a problem for me because i wanted 100+ 2" hexes. (this was before i ever saw settlers) that was just way too big.

and i couldnt imagine the cost to produce. i guess that's number 4.

Nestalawe
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Tiles or Pre-printed board?

I am working on similar kinda ideas - modular board so that each game can be played on a unique map, giving a difference experience for each game.

I am yet to setup and playtest, but one approach I have taken in making sure the board setup is not 'too' random is to split all the tiles into groups (this particular game has a map made up of hexes similar to Twilight Imperium 3).

So I have 1 central hex tile with three 'rings' of hexes around it. The three rings consist of 36 tiles. So I have split these 36 tiles into groups of six, and then roughly made each group of six tiles have a similar amount of resources, locations etc. When setting up the game, each player randomly picks one of these groups of tiles to set up in their particular slice of the map. That way, the randomness gets cut down somewhat, but each map is still unique...

The other problem in getting the board 'knocked' has also been on my mind, hence my thread in the production forum about trying to either fix tiles down (I have decided against velcro...) or lay them on some sort of surface which will stop them sliding.

With regards to your other note about having a random map or a set map, like Axis and Allies, or War of the Ring, or most other games like these, my main thought is about strategy within the game.

With a fixed map you get two things - One, you get an instantly recognisable 'game world' i.e. Middle Earth, which brings up certain feelings within the players and can be a great atmospheric aspect to the game, if nothing else. Two, you get a map on which every game will be played, and so various strategies relating to that map will arise. Thus, as more and more games are played, players will learn strategies that relate to the map and this has the potential to make the game very cool, or get repetitive.

Part of me likes a set map/board, as it brings up great connotations (i.e. the map board of Dragon Pass) but I also like the idea of creating a different game world for each game. I will still have a strong theme and background to the game, and there are reasons why the map is 'random' (if only that it doens't matter too much what is where...) but my main reason for having a variable map lies within how I see the game being played and what strategies will be incorporated. The gameboard is such an intregal part of the game that it is tied directly into what your game IS.

seo
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Tiles or Pre-printed board?

I'm also working on a tiled map game: a F1 racing game, with tracks made from several square pieces.

My idea is to design a set of 20-30 board pieces and build each track using some 8-12 of them. The game would have some predefined suggested tracks, similar to the real track configurations in the F1 season, but also leave room for the players to create their own designs.

I think the tiled boards work great for some games, as long as the tiles are not too small, and the board building process doesn't take too long. Obviously, I'm not talking about games in which the tile laying process is a central part of the game, but the ones where you use tiles to allow for different game setups (as different tracks in my game, where the central topci is the race, not the track layout).

For this sort of game, many small tiles might take too long to set up (thus giving the players th feeling that they never start playing) or result in an unbalanced game, either because the tile laying is random or if not random, because some players use the tile laying to gain an early advantadge (they are actually playing a tile laying game there) while others just place the tiles where they think it looks nice, etc.

So if you go for many small tiles, you will probably need strict rules to control the process and prevent those potential problems.

Seo

Anonymous
Tiles or Pre-printed board?

seo wrote:
I'm also working on a tiled map game: a F1 racing game, with tracks made from several square pieces.

My idea is to design a set of 20-30 board pieces and build each track using some 8-12 of them. The game would have some predefined suggested tracks, similar to the real track configurations in the F1 season, but also leave room for the players to create their own designs.

I think the tiled boards work great for some games, as long as the tiles are not too small, and the board building process doesn't take too long. Obviously, I'm not talking about games in which the tile laying process is a central part of the game, but the ones where you use tiles to allow for different game setups (as different tracks in my game, where the central topci is the race, not the track layout).

For this sort of game, many small tiles might take too long to set up (thus giving the players th feeling that they never start playing) or result in an unbalanced game, either because the tile laying is random or if not random, because some players use the tile laying to gain an early advantadge (they are actually playing a tile laying game there) while others just place the tiles where they think it looks nice, etc.

So if you go for many small tiles, you will probably need strict rules to control the process and prevent those potential problems.

Seo

like "formula de" but you build the track?

sounds cool. formula de is one of my favorite games.

seo
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Tiles or Pre-printed board?

evernoob wrote:

like "formula de" but you build the track?

sounds cool. formula de is one of my favorite games.
Why doe every game seem to have already been created? ;-)
I didn't know Formula Dé, but looks like it has many ideas in common with the game I was trying to create. I'll read Formula Dé's rules and see how close it is to what I had in mind. I just hope it's not too close, or I'll have to rethink the idea from the scratch. :-/

Thanks for the info. :-)

Seo

Anonymous
Tiles or Pre-printed board?

seo wrote:
evernoob wrote:

like "formula de" but you build the track?

sounds cool. formula de is one of my favorite games.
Why doe every game seem to have already been created? ;-)
I didn't know Formula Dé, but looks like it has many ideas in common with the game I was trying to create. I'll read Formula Dé's rules and see how close it is to what I had in mind. I just hope it's not too close, or I'll have to rethink the idea from the scratch. :-/

Thanks for the info. :-)

Seo

you're welcome. i hate it when that happens.

unfortunately for you, the mechanics of formula de are outstanding.

you should probably buy the game in order to see what you could do differently.

i like your idea of constructing tracks.

seo
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Tiles or Pre-printed board?

I saw it at boardgamesgeek.com and it really looks great. I also downloaded the rulebook and some pics, and the PC verison, so I guess I'll try to play the PC version before I spend $ 40+ in the box version. But it certainly looks like a really good game from the graphic design point of view, and from your comments I would say from the gampelay too.

My idea is to avoid dice altoghether, but have some cards you can use to boicott your rivals cars performance or affect the outcome of the passing moves (both to prevent them and to have an extra chance when you attempt one). And the tiles to build the tracks are a central part of my idea.

So maybe not all is lost, after all. I don't want to just do a variation from an existing game, though, but a new one, but I might get some useful ideas from Formula De anyway.

I'll post some info on the progress as soon as I have something to post.

Seo

Anonymous
Master Labyrinth Did It Well

Nestalawe wrote:
I am yet to setup and playtest, but one approach I have taken in making sure the board setup is not 'too' random is to split all the tiles into groups (this particular game has a map made up of hexes similar to Twilight Imperium 3).

The other problem in getting the board 'knocked' has also been on my mind, hence my thread in the production forum about trying to either fix tiles down (I have decided against velcro...) or lay them on some sort of surface which will stop them sliding.

Master Labyrinth has a neat solution to this. For those unfamiliar with the idea, the link is here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/437 and I'll explain briefly.

The game is about making a maze out of tiles. The catch is that there is one extra tile players use to "shift" the maze. Altho the board is primarily made up of randomly distributed tiles, there are also fixed tiles mounted in strategic locations on a board that make shifting the maze possible. The fixed tiles also contain the starting positions for the players, so it's easy to imagine fixed tiles in another similar game containing some other sort of resource while at the same time protecting the loose playing area from being knocked around or out of place.

Imagine if you will the Settlers of Catan board with 6 of the outer hexes fixed in place, at the "corners" of the larger hex that the smaller ones comprise. They could be affixed to a smooth board beneath them, allowing tiles to slide more easily into place, or a stickier board that would help keep tiles from moving around. Either way, this setup can eliminate some of the problems with a totally loose board of tiles, and also help with balance because when you choose where a few spaces are, then it's possible to make the game playable despite being otherwise random. It does sacrifice some of the randomness, however, so you can't have your cake and eat it too. :/

-Peter-

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