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What is the difference between 'strategic' and 'tactic' ?

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FastLearner
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What is the difference between 'strategic' and 'tactic' ?

I am of the opinion that Puerto Rico has it pretty much all the time, but only if all the players are very experienced with the game. It's like chess, in a way: for inexperienced players if one moves his pawn from here to there, it may not mean much at all... heck, it could in fact mean "couldn't think of a good play." For experienced chess players, though, that pawn move can mean anything from "that was a mistake" to "he's setting up protection for a future move of his bishop" to "ah, looks like the beginning of an Orenefsky offense or a Feinberg defensive wedge... I'm betting on the former."

Not that Puerto Rico is that deep, but when a player chooses a corn plantation over a tobacco plantation when no one has tobacco yet, that signals that he's likely working towards a cheap shipping strategy, maybe corn and sugar or corn and indigo, and maybe that he's really helping that guy on his left with the Office as a result. When a player buys a Hacienda for his first building or a Warehouse early on, I'm thinking shipper, a signal he's sending. When someone chooses the Trader even though it's benefitting another player even more, I'm thinking he's desperate for that single extra doubloon and start to figure out what building he's planning to buy. Etc. I simply contend that among experienced PR players the signals are very nearly as direct and tangible as in checkers.

Zzzzz
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What is the difference between 'strategic' and 'tactic' ?

Ok I guess in an attempt to finalize my interest and input into this topic. What would be a good set of boardgame related terms and definitions to break down the concepts contained in this thread?

For starters,

Action/Move : A single granular decision or choice made by a player to help advance their current position in the game while maintaining the highest potential payout.

Tactic(s) : Sets of one or more Actions/Moves used by a player to best position themselves to achieve their overall game goals.

Strategy : A high level method of play chosen by the player for use as a plan of action so the player may achieve the highest potential payout in the game.

Ok I look forward to any bashing, fine tuning, or altering to the above three items. But I hope we can manage to define the concepts of strategy in a game from high level to a low level set of terms. For some reason I think it might be a minor but useful set of terms for a designer to think about when implementing a new game. Since we the designers need to think about these type of game elements when we develop a game. For instance, one thought would be to also include the idea of Counter-Tactics as another term. Since hopefully a game allows one tactic to be potentially countered in order to keep all players *in the game*. If not you might be causing a run away leader issue.

Thanks...

copycat
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What is the difference between 'strategic' and 'tactic' ?

FastLearner wrote:
Continuing the off-topic part of the discussion, while language may not define thought, it certainly reflects culture. I would argue, for instance, that the concept of schadenfreude, taking pleasure in others' misfortune, is certainly present in both English-speaking and German-speaking cultures, but the fact that there's a reasonably-common word for it in German and none in English means it's likely that German-speaking cultures are more consciously aware of the idea.

When it comes to translation, though, things are a bit more complicated because if you use a given translation dictionary as a reference (or a translator), you're assuming that the compilers of the dictionary actually understand all the subtle distinctions between all of those words in both languages, whichis unlikely, or that the listed most-common translation is necessarily appropriate in your situation.

But I'm just avoiding work. :)

-- Matthew
would "sadism" not be a form of the german schadenfreude? or does this deal with only misfortune, and not pain per se?

FastLearner
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What is the difference between 'strategic' and 'tactic' ?

"Sadism," I think, more involves you enjoying inflicting pain. A good example of schadenfreude is supermarket tabloids, where people delight in celebrity X having a drug problem or weight problem or broken relationship or what have you. I wouldn't call that sadism, but it's definitely schadenfreude.

-- Matthew

ronnyay
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What is the difference between 'strategic' and 'tactic' ?

Zzzzz wrote:
Ok I guess in an attempt to finalize my interest and input into this topic. What would be a good set of boardgame related terms and definitions to break down the concepts contained in this thread?

For starters,

Action/Move : A single granular decision or choice made by a player to help advance their current position in the game while maintaining the highest potential payout.

Tactic(s) : Sets of one or more Actions/Moves used by a player to best position themselves to achieve their overall game goals.

Strategy : A high level method of play chosen by the player for use as a plan of action so the player may achieve the highest potential payout in the game.

Ok I look forward to any bashing, fine tuning, or altering to the above three items. But I hope we can manage to define the concepts of strategy in a game from high level to a low level set of terms. For some reason I think it might be a minor but useful set of terms for a designer to think about when implementing a new game. Since we the designers need to think about these type of game elements when we develop a game. For instance, one thought would be to also include the idea of Counter-Tactics as another term. Since hopefully a game allows one tactic to be potentially countered in order to keep all players *in the game*. If not you might be causing a run away leader issue.

Thanks...

Great summary. :) It reminds me (suggested by someone in the forum) that the easiest way to enhance tactical depth of a war game is to assign a "rock - paper - scissors" relationship (or introducing counter tactics) to the units.

JeffK
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What is the difference between 'strategic' and 'tactic' ?

Zzzzz wrote:

Action/Move : A single granular decision or choice made by a player to help advance their current position in the game while maintaining the highest potential payout.

Tactic(s) : Sets of one or more Actions/Moves used by a player to best position themselves to achieve their overall game goals.

Strategy : A high level method of play chosen by the player for use as a plan of action so the player may achieve the highest potential payout in the game.

I would add an even higher level concept:

Objective : The ultimate goal of the game. What you must achieve to win.

I know this sounds obvious, but without a clear understanding of your Objective, you cannot develop a sound Strategy.

As an example, take Memoir '44. The Objective in any particular game of Memoir is to get X medals before your opponent. Many scenarios include two paths to those medals - either by capturing and holding a hex on the map or by eliminating enemy units. Thus a player must choose a Strategy that will both gain medals for himself while denying them to his opponent based on the scenario.

As a result, your Objective helps determine both your Strategy and your Tactics. Strategy and Tactics, however, will often interact in both directions. Again, using Memoir, your initial Strategy, based on your Objective, may include capturing and holding a certain town on the board. However, as the game progresses you lack the cards to activate your units in that particular flank. Hence, your Tactical options are limited, forcing you to adjust your Strategy. After you revise your Strategy, that will dictate your Tactics (i.e. the sequence of cards you play, which units you order and the orders that you give them over the next several turns). Generally, the plan will flow from Strategy to Tactics. Sometimes, though, your Tactical assessments (i.e. I don't have enough command and control in that flank to do what I originally planned) will force you to revise your Strategies.

Thus, it could look something like this:

Objective ----->> Strategy <----->> Tactics ----->> Action/Move

Ultimately, your Objective is the highest level of your plan and cannot, I think, be ignored in any discussion of Strategy and Tactics.

Jeff K.

Zzzzz
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What is the difference between 'strategic' and 'tactic' ?

JeffK wrote:
Zzzzz wrote:

Action/Move : A single granular decision or choice made by a player to help advance their current position in the game while maintaining the highest potential payout.

Tactic(s) : Sets of one or more Actions/Moves used by a player to best position themselves to achieve their overall game goals.

Strategy : A high level method of play chosen by the player for use as a plan of action so the player may achieve the highest potential payout in the game.

I would add an even higher level concept:

Objective : The ultimate goal of the game. What you must achieve to win.

......

Objective ----->> Strategy <----->> Tactics ----->> Action/Move

Ok, so to use another already existing game term, would Objective be the same thing as a Victory Condition?

I think Objective or Victory Condition could be used, but they do have different emphasis. Objective is a very genernal term and could mean the players sets out to *do something*, though the term is often tied to the concepts of strategy. Where Victory Condition implies that the player will pick some objective that will hopefully yield a win.

So personally I would prefer the use of Victory Condition in place of Objective.

Or maybe a Victory Condition is just a subset of the Objectives?

JeffK
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What is the difference between 'strategic' and 'tactic' ?

Zzzzz wrote:

Ok, so to use another already existing game term, would Objective be the same thing as a Victory Condition?

I think Objective or Victory Condition could be used, but they do have different emphasis.

I think you're right, Victory Condition is probably a better term for reasons I'll discuss below.

Quote:
Objective is a very genernal term and could mean the players sets out to *do something*, though the term is often tied to the concepts of strategy.

I agree that Objective is conceptually tied to Strategy. Thus, if part of your Strategy in Memoir is to assume control of a town to get it's medal, you may decide that a hill near the town is an Objective, since it make it easier for you to control the area. Your Tactics would then be designed to gain control of the Objective. Thus, Objective is probably not the best choice for the highest level of planning. It's somewhere between Strategy and Tactics, it seems to me.

Quote:
Where Victory Condition implies that the player will pick some objective that will hopefully yield a win.

I would say that an Objective would be chosen to aid your Strategy, but ultimately you are correct. Everything is chosen in furtherance of achieving the Victory Condition.

So, the new chart looks like:

Victory Condition--->>Strategy--->>Objectives--->>Tactics--->>Actions/Moves

Plus, of course, as your Tactical situation changes you may need to adjust your Strategy, which could lead to your choosing new Objectives and thus changing your Tactics. I'm just not sure how to represent the feedback between Tactics and Strategy in a text chart now that Objectives has been sandwiched between them. :)

Xaqery
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What is the difference between 'strategic' and 'tactic' ?

JeffK wrote:
Victory Condition--->>Strategy--->>Objectives--->>Tactics--->>Actions/Moves

While I think we have pulverized this corn finely, objectives seems redundant to me. Do you ever have a strategy without an objective?

- Dwight

JeffK
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What is the difference between 'strategic' and 'tactic' ?

Xaqery wrote:
JeffK wrote:
Victory Condition--->>Strategy--->>Objectives--->>Tactics--->>Actions/Moves

While I think we have pulverized this corn finely, objectives seems redundant to me. Do you ever have a strategy without an objective?

- Dwight

Probably not. Does that mean they aren't seperate concepts? The above sequence helps me conceptualize the steps of making a plan in a game. Your own mileage may vary.

Jeff K.

Infernal
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What is the difference between 'strategic' and 'tactic' ?

Quote:
It reminds me (suggested by someone in the forum) that the easiest way to enhance tactical depth of a war game is to assign a "rock - paper - scissors" relationship (or introducing counter tactics) to the units.

It was most likely me that suggested that :D.

A good way of thinking about Startegy and Tactics is: Strategy is what you bring to the battle field. Tactics is what you do with it.

Take the table top war games: "Warhammer" and "Warhammer 40,000". In these games you paint minatures and use them to build an army. This is Strategy. It has cost you resources (Money to buy the units and Time to paint them) so there is some effort involved that puts constraints on your Strategies, so you have to make some Stratigic decisions as to what units you are going to purchace and paint.

Once you decide to play a game of WH you must make further decissions as to what units from your collection you will use. You are usually resticted here by a "points" limit of the units.

Once you have made these Stratigic decisions you then set up your army. This is now tactics (do you position the heavy weapons to take out thier vehicals, but leave your flanks open to their hreo characters?). And once the game is underway you have to react to situations that occure (You will need to reinforce the grunts on your left flank but whan do you do it. Too early and you leave the other flank open, too late and they don't make much diference).

A stratigic decision might be to not bring heavy weapons to the table and use many faster units that mean that you will have the ability to move your units around and make sure that you can adapt quickly to changes on the battle field and out manouver your opponent. When to make that move to outflank your opponent is a tactical choice.

gilbertgea
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What is the difference between 'strategic' and 'tactic' ?

...And then there is the Operational Level, which is an interim level between the Tactical and the Strategic.

Here are some definitions from MCRP 5-12A (Operational Terms and Graphics):

Tactical Level of War : The level of war at which battles and engagements are planned and executed to accomplish military objectives assigned to tactical units or task forces. Activities at this level focus on the ordered arrangement and maneuver of combat elements in relation to each other and to the enemy to achieve combat objectives.

Operational Level of War : The level of war at which campaigns and major operations are planned, conducted, and sustained to accomplish strategic objectives within theaters or operational areas. Activities at this level link tactics and strategy by establishing operational objectives needed to accomplish the strategic objectives, sequencing events to achieve the operational objectives, initiating actions, and applying resources to bring about and sustain these events. These activities imply a broader dimension of time and space than do tactics; they ensure the logistic and administrative support of tactical forces, and provide the means by which tactical successes are exploited to achieve strategic objectives.

Strategic Level of War : The level of war at which a nation, often as a member of a group of nations, determines national or multinational (alliance or coalition) strategic security objectives and guidance, and develops and uses national resources to accomplish these objectives. Activities at this level establish national and multinational military objectives; sequence initiatives; define limits and assess risks for the use of military and other instruments of national power; develop global plans or theater war plans to achieve these objectives; and provide military forces and other capabilities in accordance with strategic plans.

-----

So, in essence, the difference between Strategy and Tactics (and the Operational Art!) is one of scale.

Geoff

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