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"Dodgeball" card game component

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Fri, 06/03/2005 - 13:02
Kreitler
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(This could be a design problem, or a component problem -- I'm not sure which. This topic may be more appropriate in the Design forum. My apologies if it seems out of place here.)

How would you solve this problem:

You have to slide a penny (or glass bead) across a 2D playing field composed of cards placed next to one another. There are no gaps between cards. You can't keep your finger on the penny -- you have to "flick it" from its source to its target. The problem arises when the penny moves from one card to the next -- if the surface isn't flat, it will catch an edge and bounce or stop.

There aren't that many cards in the game (16, total), so my first thought involved laying the cards such that the penny was always sliding from an upper edge to a lower edge along the "shot path". I think that involves way too much fiddling.

My next thought was to place a flat, transparent plastic surface (like a smooth ruler) along the shot path and flick the penny along that. I like this idea a lot, but, assuming this is a Cheapass Games style product, is it reasonable to expect people to have a component like this lying around?

Can anyone out there think of an alternate solution (including a better "shooting" mechanic that sliding a penny or bead)?

Thanks, everyone.

K.

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Fri, 06/03/2005 - 13:51
#1
larienna
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Why not use dice

Why dont you spin dice instead. I am not sure if it will work but you can use a D10 dice and spin it horizontally ( easier than vertically, we generally do this when RPG games becomes too boring ). I am not sure if it will move easily from a card to another.

You can allso roll a dice on the card. Take a dice with a lot of faces so that it can roll for a long time but not indefinitely like marbles. D20 and above, especially D30 or D100 would be OK.

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Fri, 06/03/2005 - 14:10
#2
Shrike
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"Dodgeball" card game component

I know that this would go against your idea of "flicking" the penny, but could you have the cards set up on a grid or in order? Have the one "throwing the ball" target that card and roll a die versus a target number to look for success. This would allow for cards or other random effects to increase the target number, subtract from the die roll, things like that. Going in the CAG direction seems to limit you a bunch, if you replaced the penny with a roller of some sort (there was a game when I was growing up that had a ball bearing placed in a thick plastic ring) you wouldn't get the stuck problem. I don't know man, interesting problem though, good luck.

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Fri, 06/03/2005 - 14:12
#3
Hamumu
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"Dodgeball" card game component

I really think you won't get good movement over a field of cards (unless you are rolling like Larienna said, but then your trajectory could get very wacky). Plus, after you've had the game a while and the cards are a little bent up... and worse yet from all the times pennies have smacked their edges. You probably need to slap a sheet of plastic over the cards in some way. I don't think that would be an expensive element, but not something for a true Cheapass style where the player has to provide it. Of course, I also don't know where you'd get such a thing. So hear hear for my handy assistance!

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Fri, 06/03/2005 - 14:25
#4
Kreitler
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"Dodgeball" card game component

Hamumu wrote:
You probably need to slap a sheet of plastic over the cards in some way. I don't think that would be an expensive element, but not something for a true Cheapass style where the player has to provide it. Of course, I also don't know where you'd get such a thing. So hear hear for my handy assistance!

That's exactly what I was thinking--which brought me to the "place a ruler on the shot line and flick the pennies along it's surface." Of course, it would have to be one of those clear plastic, flat flexible rulers in order to work.

The ball-bearing/ring idea is good, too -- though it's not exactly a component people are likely to have around.

I like rolling a die. I wonder about the trajectory problem, though. I'll have to experiment with that. I also think that, after a while, even a die might not work as the cards warp.

Finally, introducing more cards and a combat system would make all this moot, but I'm trying to keep the cards to a limit of 16 (all this came about as a result of the 16-card challenge. This game certainly isn't appropriate for a war-gaming journal, but I found that working within the limitation of a small fixed-card limit forces helps produce some interesting designs...).

Thanks for the help, everyone.

K.

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Fri, 06/03/2005 - 14:27
#5
larienna
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pure randomness

Another thing I am not sure is the pure randomness of this spinning method.

Starting spinning at a certain area can increase the probability to hit a certain area depending on how the player spin. Some spinng method will send the pennie on a certain distance before spinning while other technique will make the coin spin immediately.

Consider also that it is not every body who can spin coins( I can't do it ). Do you want to make it a dexterity game or the spinning is just a random element?

You could also use a "drop from the sky" technique. You hold the dice or the pennie at a certain height above the card, drop it and see where it lands. In this case, the player can influence less the movement of the object.

By the way, the plastic coating or cover above the cards is a really good idea if not essential.

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Fri, 06/03/2005 - 14:34
#6
Shrike
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"Dodgeball" card game component

OIC, the 16 cards challenge huh? Man, I really need to breakdown and write up the rules for the two games I did for that. Wouldn't hurt to redo the cards for the one either. How did your games come out for that? I'm gonna shoot for the end of next week to get a rules set together for one of those games. I think the tossing the dice thing at the cards is maybe the best.. I can't think of anything else at the moment, you're right, NO ONE is going to have the bearing in a ring thing laying around unless they packrat games from the '80s.

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Fri, 06/03/2005 - 14:35
#7
Anonymous
"Dodgeball" card game component

the cards are the targets right?

are the cards standing up somehow?

howabout a slingshot contraption that hurls a rubber bouncy ball at a card?

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Fri, 06/03/2005 - 14:38
#8
Kreitler
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Re: pure randomness

Larienna wrote:
Consider also that it is not every body who can spin coins( I can't do it ). Do you want to make it a dexterity game or the spinning is just a random element?

"Flick" was a bad word choice on my part. You don't spin the coins -- you slide them towards their targets. I didn't want to say "slide", because that implies you can just push them along with your finger. You push, then let got -- like a mini-version of shuffleboard.

K.

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Fri, 06/03/2005 - 14:42
#9
Kreitler
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"Dodgeball" card game component

Shrike wrote:
How did your games come out for that?

Pretty good. I did a "Plane/tank/infantry" game first, which Anders rejected because they'd just done a tank game. Next, I did a "Cold War" game that turned out pretty well. I'm still tuning it.

Shrike wrote:
I'm gonna shoot for the end of next week to get a rules set together for one of those games.

I'd love to see what you came up with. Are we the only ones who tried it?

K.

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Fri, 06/03/2005 - 14:43
#10
Kreitler
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"Dodgeball" card game component

evernoob wrote:
the cards are the targets right?

are the cards standing up somehow?

howabout a slingshot contraption that hurls a rubber bouncy ball at a card?

Yes, the cards are the targets (members of your team).
No, they're not standing up -- but if they were, the slingshot is a pretty clever idea. I'll noodle that and see where it goes.

Thanks!

K.

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Fri, 06/03/2005 - 14:52
#11
seo
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"Dodgeball" card game component

I would try with cardboard cards instead of cardstock cards, to minimize the risk of combing becoming a problem, plus the usual roundedness produced by die cutted cardboard helping minimize the chance of edges becoming a problem. Cardboard cards will also be heavier, thus you'll face less risk of cards moving.

Then I would use a button or something with a round edge instead of the penny, also to minimize the risk of the edge of the penny hitting the edge of one card.

Seo

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Fri, 06/03/2005 - 14:54
#12
larienna
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Curling

So you want to make some sort of curling game.

I loved playing curling on my house floor using the marbles with a ring around it that came from the game "rebound". I even currently have 3 red and 1 blue in a small pot on my desk.

Still, I don't think this is common supplies that you can buy anywhere. Another thing, is that you will need a long plastic place to have space to launche the marbles.

Using standing card could also be cool ( Ok, I know it is not what you want). They should be more efficient if you are using plain marble since they don't have to stop somewhere, they just have to hit something. You could also use some small bowlling pins that must be hit or some arches where your marble must pass through.

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Fri, 06/03/2005 - 14:55
#13
Shrike
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"Dodgeball" card game component

Quote:
Anders rejected because they'd just done a tank game

Is Anders one of the guys from the Mag running the contest? I haven't contacted them at all yet. I really need to move on some of that. Got caught up fixing Night Fight to get ready to show. Oh well. Yeah I really think we were the only ones to mess with that, at least I haven't seen anyone else talking about it.

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Fri, 06/03/2005 - 15:10
#14
Kreitler
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Re: Curling

Larienna wrote:
So you want to make some sort of curling game.

Nope. :P

The cards don't stand up. They lie flat. The game is really more like shuffleboard. If slide a penny, button, etc, over the cards. The card on which the penny stops gets "hit".

I really need to draw a diagram--I'm not so good at explaining things with words. :P

K.

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Fri, 06/03/2005 - 15:20
#15
Kreitler
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"Dodgeball" card game component

seo wrote:
I would try with cardboard cards instead of cardstock cards, to minimize the risk of combing becoming a problem, plus the usual roundedness produced by die cutted cardboard helping minimize the chance of edges becoming a problem. Cardboard cards will also be heavier, thus you'll face less risk of cards moving.

Then I would use a button or something with a round edge instead of the penny, also to minimize the risk of the edge of the penny hitting the edge of one card.

Seo

Excellent points. Once again, I am in your debt--and in awe of your production knowledge. :)

K.

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Fri, 06/03/2005 - 15:54
#16
markmist
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"Dodgeball" card game component

My idea would be to have a plastic mat of some sort that you place on top of the cards to prevent movement and allow the penny to slide over. The problem is that you would either need a mat big enough to cover the whole playing area, or one that has a outer lip that it would be possible for the sliding penny to traverse over.

Also you could experiment with different sliding devices and use several different ones in the game that would have different effects. I could see using nickels, dimes, quarters, buttons, paper clips, magnets, washers, etc. Make the ones that are the hardest to control have a more powerful effect.

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Fri, 06/03/2005 - 15:55
#17
Kreitler
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"Dodgeball" card game component

Shrike wrote:
Is Anders one of the guys from the Mag running the contest? I haven't contacted them at all yet.

Yes. He's the one you'll contact if you follow the news link send email using the mail link on the resulting page. If you send him a concept, I'd recommend giving him as short a summary as possible. If he's interested in the idea, he'll send follow-up questions and may request some rules tweaks. Then, be prepared to wait. :) That's where I'm at with the "Cold War" game.

K.

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Fri, 06/03/2005 - 15:57
#18
Kreitler
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"Dodgeball" card game component

markmist wrote:
My idea would be to have a plastic mat of some sort that you place on top of the cards to prevent movement and allow the penny to slide over.

Yes -- I thought about that. The problem is that players rearrange their cards from turn to turn, and placing/removing the mat would be "fiddly" (which is why I keep coming back to the ruler idea).

markmist wrote:
Also you could experiment with different sliding devices and use several different ones in the game that would have different effects. I could see using nickels, dimes, quarters, buttons, paper clips, magnets, washers, etc. Make the ones that are the hardest to control have a more powerful effect.

That's a great idea -- one I hadn't thought of.

Thanks for the ideas, Mark.

K.

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Sun, 06/05/2005 - 06:39
#19
Anonymous
"Dodgeball" card game component

What about introducing an actual dodge ball into the game?

A Player can throw the ball at the table as hard as possible, and the positioning of the cards in the aftermath determines what the results are?

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Sun, 06/05/2005 - 15:24
#20
Kreitler
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"Dodgeball" card game component

Goldar wrote:
What about introducing an actual dodge ball into the game?

A Player can throw the ball at the table as hard as possible, and the positioning of the cards in the aftermath determines what the results are?

Whoa -- cool idea -- very creative. I'm not sure I can make it work, but I'll definitely give it some heavy thought. Thanks for the help.

K.

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