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[TiGD] Week 3: "Tile laying games"

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Scurra
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[TiGD] Week 3: "Tile laying games"

sedjtroll wrote:

We've said that Tile Laying can help invoke the feeling of building something or exploring something (in some cases both). How can we as designers use this information in our designs? When should we think to ourselves "hmm, this might be a good place to use a tile laying mechanism"? Is there a building/exploration feeling that would be negatively impacted by tile laying- a situation where tile laying might not work well, even in a type of game that seems to led itself to tile laying?

It seems fairly evident to me that it has a lot to do with the role the "board" plays in the game. For instance, imagine Carcassonne had a fixed board, with a bunch of roads, cities, farms and monastries. You could still play the game a few times as you attempted to discover the optimal placement positions, but essentially it is a puzzle with a fixed solution. So you make the board mutable, thus ensurng that it can't be completely solved during play.

Compare this to a game such as Elfenland in which the structure of the board is fixed, and the tile-laying component doesn't change the routes themselves, but the methods used to pass them.

And at the other end of the scale you get to something like Power Grid, in which the board is crucial to the progress of the game and there can be no random elements involved there at all, in case the carefully balanced system breaks down.

IOW a game with a mutable board is generally one in which the relative values of the board components are functionally similar (albeit different when the interactions are explored.) A game in which you know that location X and location Y should not be adjacent is inevitably not going to lend itself to a tile-laying format.

Anonymous
[TiGD] Week 3: "Tile laying games"

Scurra wrote:
sedjtroll wrote:

We've said that Tile Laying can help invoke the feeling of building something or exploring something (in some cases both). How can we as designers use this information in our designs? When should we think to ourselves "hmm, this might be a good place to use a tile laying mechanism"? Is there a building/exploration feeling that would be negatively impacted by tile laying- a situation where tile laying might not work well, even in a type of game that seems to led itself to tile laying?

It seems fairly evident to me that it has a lot to do with the role the "board" plays in the game. For instance, imagine Carcassonne had a fixed board, with a bunch of roads, cities, farms and monastries. You could still play the game a few times as you attempted to discover the optimal placement positions, but essentially it is a puzzle with a fixed solution. So you make the board mutable, thus ensurng that it can't be completely solved during play.

Compare this to a game such as Elfenland in which the structure of the board is fixed, and the tile-laying component doesn't change the routes themselves, but the methods used to pass them.

And at the other end of the scale you get to something like Power Grid, in which the board is crucial to the progress of the game and there can be no random elements involved there at all, in case the carefully balanced system breaks down.

IOW a game with a mutable board is generally one in which the relative values of the board components are functionally similar (albeit different when the interactions are explored.) A game in which you know that location X and location Y should not be adjacent is inevitably not going to lend itself to a tile-laying format.

An interesting analysis (from what sounds to me like a mathmo's perspective!).

If there are tile elements that cannot be placed together, I do find them annoying. I tend to be a one-track-minded player, and get easily confused. So, if elements X and Y cannot be legally placed adjacent to one another, I find it really annoying to need to remember that. Obviously road/cities/forests/rivers in Carc and its derivatives are easily remembered.

Cheers,

Richard.

Scurra
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[TiGD] Week 3: "Tile laying games"

Richard_Huzzey wrote:

An interesting analysis (from what sounds to me like a mathmo's perspective!).

I don't do the "math" bit :) I tend to work entirely from instinct, and one or two lessons learned the hard way...
Quote:

If there are tile elements that cannot be placed together, I do find them annoying. I tend to be a one-track-minded player, and get easily confused. So, if elements X and Y cannot be legally placed adjacent to one another, I find it really annoying to need to remember that. Obviously road/cities/forests/rivers in Carc and its derivatives are easily remembered.

Any tile-laying game which had restrictions like that would probably be generally bad. I was saying that you shouldn't use it at all, not that you had to remember conditions during play.

Anonymous
[TiGD] Week 3: "Tile laying games"

Scurra wrote:

Any tile-laying game which had restrictions like that would probably be generally bad. I was saying that you shouldn't use it at all, not that you had to remember conditions during play.

Yep; I was meaning to agree with you and gripe against games where there such restrictions, which make my brain hurt. :-)

Richard.

sedjtroll
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[TiGD] Week 3: "Tile laying games"

I'm having a little trouble distinguishing between the restrictions... there likely needs to be some restrictions on where you can and cannot place tiles, or the decisions on where to place the tile will not be interesting. Now, those restrictions needn't come directly from the tile laying rules, but it seems like they often do. In Carcassonne you can't put a road piece next to a castle interior piece. It wouldn't make a lot of sense if you could, and therefore as Richard pointed out it's easy to remember.

So then is there some other restriction that is not as easy to remember? If carcassonne pieces had either red or blue backgrounds, and you could only place a tile if it matched on teh side AND had the same color bckground, is that the kind of restriction you mean would be bad?

Hpox' Micropul is an abstract tile laying game in which the rule is that when you place a tile, you have to match at least 1 Micropul, and no 2 Micropuls can touch if they are opposite colors (they are black and white). Is that restriction acceptable? Without it the game is almost nothing. There's no theme to tie it together and remind you. But I think it actually works quite well.

- Seth

Scurra
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[TiGD] Week 3: "Tile laying games"

sedjtroll wrote:

So then is there some other restriction that is not as easy to remember? If carcassonne pieces had either red or blue backgrounds, and you could only place a tile if it matched on teh side AND had the same color bckground, is that the kind of restriction you mean would be bad?

If they had red, blue, green and yellow backgrounds and, say, red couldn't touch yellow and blue couldn't touch green, then that would be a disaster.
But two colours (e.g. black and white) not being allowed to match seems actually reasonable to me. And Carcassonne gets around this quite cleverly since effectively it has got two colours (fields and cities) but doesn't make a big song and dance about it.
Most pipe games simply have four exit points (one on each side) so that every tile will always be placeable but it's the mix of pipes that counts. (And Metro takes that one stage further by having two pipes/tracks exiting on each side.)

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