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Game #14a Swich & Tip

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Anonymous

Here is the file

[ link removed ]

Abstract paragraph

Switch & Tip
2 players
3-10 min
A quick game of strategy that will have you thinking twice before you make your next move. An astoundingly simple game that is entertaining over again and over again. Players try to get their pieces on to the squares of their color or eliminate one of the opponent’s pieces using the unique abilities of their switch and tip. It is played on a 3x3 square board and each player only has two pieces, one switch and one tip.

Hello folks first I would like to thank you all for reviewing my game. Just to let you know I’m looking specifically for any grammar, spelling, word misuse, and better ways to explain certain concepts in the rules. I’m about to publish this game on my own so no error is too small, I other words I need you guys to pick the rules to pieces. I know that the rules as is work well and can stand up in a blind test. I’m just doing this to get that final polish that I think all published works should have.

zaiga
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Game #14a Swich & Tip

I am amazed by the simplicity of the game: 4 pieces, a 3x3 board and one page of rules! If the game indeed works as well as you imply, then this is a nifty piece of work!

Because the rules are so short, it is hard to find criticism, but I do have a few points.

Personally, I would like to see the "How to win section" at the end. Just explain what a player can do in his turn and then at the end explain what the winning conditions are.

If you do keep the "How to win" section at the beginning, then explain again later on that you can also win by occupying the two squares of your color. This, because you also explain twice that you can win by capturing another player's piece. Small gripe, but you asked for it.

Also, what happens if I somehow eliminate my own switch piece? This does not seem to be covered in the rules.

You say that the rules work well as is, but I do have some questions about gameplay. Does the starting player have an unfair advantage? Or perhaps a disadvantage? Do stalemates occur often?

I ask this because it is a luck free abstract, where a only a small number of moves are possible each turn. In theory this means that either: the starting player will win if he has a perfect strategy OR the starting player will always lose if he has a perfect strategy OR the game always ends in a draw if both players have a perfect strategy.

The caveat here of course is that in many abstract games the "perfect" strategy is not easily found, usually because there are so many different moves available each turn and therefore they stay interesting, even at a very high level of play (Go, Chess).

On the other hand, some games are "solved" and therefore are not very interesting to play if at least one of the players knows how to play the perfect strategy. Examples of such games are are Abalone (with the default setup) and TicTacToe.

Games such as Othello and Connect-Four can be solved by computer programs in a reasonable amount of time and are considered "solved" for that purpose.

Looking at your game it seems that there either is a perfect strategy that the starting player might be able to follow to win within a number of turns OR that there is an effective counterstrategy and that the game always ends in a draw. Each abstract has a perfect strategy in theory, but for some abstracts the perfect strategy is very, very tough to calculate (or practically impossible for us mortals), because there are so many options each turn. Since your game has a very limited set of possible moves each turn I would be afraid that the game can be "solved" within a few moves.

Then again, would this be a problem? I don't know. Personally I wouldn't feel very comfortable publishing such a game, but it depends on your public and what your intent with the game is. Perhaps if people care so much about the game that they are willing put in the time and effort to try and solve it, then you could consider it a success. :)

Anyway, good luck with it!

- Rene Wiersma

Anonymous
Game #14a Swich & Tip

Wow thanks for the detailed review. It’s hard to notice but the simplicity of Switch and Tip is only skin deep. Take for example the 3x3 board, its nine squares and each one of them is significantly different from the others. Each of the four starting squares when occupied puts a different piece on the board in jeopardy of elimination. The four goal squares are different by color and position. The one center square is the only square where a tip can reach all other squares in one move.
Switch and tip may vary well have a perfect strategy. However the game is designed against it. The two victory conditions will make it much more difficult to calculate a perfect strategy then games you mentioned. The mechanic of the switch also will make it extremely difficult to calculate. A switch will at most only have two possible moves, one is provided by the controlling player the other is provided by their opponent. As for stale mates, they don’t happen, the small size of board and the two ways to win make it so victory is only one to two turns away at any given moment. there may be a possibility of stale mating but it’s highly unlikely. I could go on about the other things that make this game work well but I think you get the picture. I will move the how to win to the bottom of the rules as suggested. I never thought anyone would eliminate there own switch but rules written as they are it’s possible to do without ending the game and it’s still possible for that player to win, they just cant obviously win by moving BOTH of their on to the squares of their color as they only have one piece. It’s really easy to see what piece your move will eliminate anyway so I don’t think that players would have that happen. Thanks and look for ward to hearing some more opinions on this game.

jwarrend
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Joined: 08/03/2008
Re: Game # 14 Swich & Tip

super wrote:

Hello folks first I would like to thank you all for reviewing my game. Just to let you know I’m looking specifically for any grammar, spelling, word misuse, and better ways to explain certain concepts in the rules. I’m about to publish this game on my own so no error is too small, I other words I need you guys to pick the rules to pieces. I know that the rules as is work well and can stand up in a blind test. I’m just doing this to get that final polish that I think all published works should have.

Hi Tyler,

I just want to post a couple of remarks that aren't directed at you personally so much as represent what I see the "purpose" of the GDW as being. I post it here so that other prospective GDW designers can consider whether they want to put up games in the GDW.

Ok, there are a couple of ways in which I think your game is not ideal for what the workshop is set up to do, from your perspective. First off, let me be clear that the GDW is not a proofreading service. We like to talk about game systems and mechanics. Naturally, when people have failed to explain their mechanics and rules clearly, we are able to help them find better ways to express them, and that's all valid. But, we also want to talk about game mechanics too.

Second, your game has been playtested a lot. Thus, the point that we are at is way behind where you are at. This means that the kind of feedback we may be able to generate may not be that useful -- you're already much further along in the process than general comments can address, and (I suspect) you need suggestions about playbalance and such, which only playtesting can do.

Finally, you're close to publication, and someone at that point generally isn't looking for suggestions for changes (because it's too late for that). For example, we had a post last week from a company that was selling their game, and while we talked about the game's mechanics, it was pretty much pointless because their game was already at the printers.

I thank you for sharing your game with us -- it's fun to hear what other people are working on, and I look forward to reading your rules and learning about how your game is played (I don't have Word at home, so it may not be till tomorrow). I just wanted to put these "overview" remarks here, not so much for you, because I'm sure you weren't aware of these "unwritten rules", but for others to think about when considering whether to submit to the GDW or not. This is necessarily just my opinion, and I'm not "in charge" of the GDW, I'm just a fellow designer and critiquer, so my opinion is in no way binding -- it's just based on what I've seen works well and doesn't work well in practice.

Thanks again for putting up your game! I'll generate some specific game-related remarks this week!

-Jeff

phpbbadmin
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Joined: 04/23/2013
Re: Game # 14 Swich & Tip

jwarrend wrote:
This is necessarily just my opinion, and I'm not "in charge" of the GDW, I'm just a fellow designer and critiquer, so my opinion is in no way binding -- it's just based on what I've seen works well and doesn't work well in practice.
-Jeff

Jeff,

I was thinking the same thing when I looked over his game. The design seems so tight that there would be very little, if anything that could be changed. Because of that, there would be nothing for us really to suggest. I would say the rules need a rewrite/revision however, just so to make them more clear.

But as I have said in the past, you are indeed "in charge" of the GDW. Don't be afraid to wear that hat!

-Darke

Anonymous
Game #14a Swich & Tip

It’s early in the week still i could put a different game up if you like. I have plenty, just delete this thred and I will post a new less finished game. :wink: thanks guys.

jwarrend
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Joined: 08/03/2008
Re: Game # 14 Swich & Tip

Darkehorse wrote:

I was thinking the same thing when I looked over his game. The design seems so tight that there would be very little, if anything that could be changed. Because of that, there would be nothing for us really to suggest. I would say the rules need a rewrite/revision however, just so to make them more clear.

One thing that occurs to me is that while we've primarily seen games early in their design, and thus have come to see the GDW truly as a "workshop", I suppose that need not be the case; by this I mean that we need not always be looking to suggest changes in order to have an interesting discussion of a design. For example, with zaiga's recent post, we see that even completed games like Settlers and Ra can be analyzed and discussed, but just in a different sense than "you might try changing this."

If people are interested in discussing super's game, by all means let's leave it up and talk about it! I simply posted my remarks because from super's perspective, I shouldn't think he'll get very much use out of the GDW with this game, and so super, if you'd like to put up another game for which you want/need feedback, it might be a better use of your time. But, it's really your call! I'll also allow some of the regular participants to chime in as well. And I think in either case, I'll leave this thread up just so people can hear, to whatever extent they're interested, my observations on some suggestions for games to submit. But, if you do switch games, we can of course remove the link to this game if you'd like!

Thanks again!

-Jeff

Anonymous
Game #14a Swich & Tip

Made a new post with a game that I had almost forgotten about because of the issues I was having with it. This thread can be deleted or ignored, but any way the file for switch and tip is down so it can’t be downloaded any more. Sorry about the trouble. And thanks for understanding.

Scurra
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Joined: 09/11/2008
Re: Game # 14 Swich & Tip

jwarrend wrote:

One thing that occurs to me is that while we've primarily seen games early in their design, and thus have come to see the GDW truly as a "workshop", I suppose that need not be the case; by this I mean that we need not always be looking to suggest changes in order to have an interesting discussion of a design.

Well, I'm certainly hoping to have a beta run at my next GDW submission before it comes to the GDW, simply to see if the game actually fits together properly, since it's quite a complex design (and a fairly big game too!)

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