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Game #29 Get the Gopher! by DarkDream

18 replies [Last post]
Tue, 05/04/2004 - 15:48
DarkDream
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Joined: 12/31/1969

All right folks, line up, speak up and take a look at my new creation.

I was inspired on doing this little game after seeing an ad with Tiger Woods trying to catch the "Caddy Shack" gopher.

The game is meant to be a light, humerous one, around 30 minutes long. A lot of the game is based on luck. I did this to keep it fairly simple and fun.

The game is in its pretty rough stages right now. I have been really concentrating on my "Chariots of War" game as of late, just having finished a play test session at my local game shop. Also with the girlfriend, job and my graduate class, time has been tight.

Anyway, an admin should pretty soon post my rules and component document. When they are on the forum, a link will be provided.

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Tue, 05/04/2004 - 16:16
#1
phpbbadmin
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Joined: 04/23/2013
Fresh hot files

Get them while they're still hot!

Components
Rules

Enjoy!
-Darke

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Tue, 05/04/2004 - 17:14
#2
Fos
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Game #29 Get the Gopher! by DarkDream

Reading through the rules...

My greatest concern is a strong gust of wind. That's a lot of pieces sitting there, and the physical aspect of the game seems fundementally flimsy. That's not a huge concern, mind you..., but would there be a way to adjust the mechanics so that only open/closed gopher holes were placed on the board, and the gameboard would be the default terran tile? I understand that would require a reworking of how the gopher pops up, but it might be worth it. A clumsy player could essentially end the game.

Beyond that though, it looks fun, with lots of opportunity to add to the event and equipement cards as you continue to work on the game. How much interplayer action do you want in the game? Perhaps more event cards could focus on hindering other players, which might increase the strategy of the game. What do you see as the primary strategic choices? Positioning of your pawn, equipement purchases, luck of the draw?

It might end the game faster, but perhaps damage tiles would be fun. The humor of the gopher hunt has always been (to me) the destruction of all property to catch a minor property destroyer. If you set off a bomb, should a gopher hole be able to pop up next turn where the bomb has just gone off? Causing widespread damage to the game board sounds extremely fun to me, seems to be within the theme of the game, and might also increase strategic choices (though that would be minor with how many squares a player can move each turn).

All in all, it looks really fun already. Good show.

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Tue, 05/04/2004 - 18:10
#3
Anonymous
Game #29 Get the Gopher! by DarkDream

Hello after a quick look over your rules. The only thing that jumps out at me is probably the action point system for movement. Normally I like AP systems, but for what I’m guessing is a lighthearted beer and pretzels game, the math can become sort of a drag. But replacing it with something else would be difficult and require changing the way equipment works.

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Tue, 05/04/2004 - 18:38
#4
DarkDream
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Game #29 Get the Gopher! by DarkDream

Fos,

Thanks for your comments.

To quote:

Quote:
My greatest concern is a strong gust of wind. That's a lot of pieces sitting there, and the physical aspect of the game seems fundementally flimsy. That's not a huge concern, mind you..., but would there be a way to adjust the mechanics so that only open/closed gopher holes were placed on the board, and the gameboard would be the default terran tile? I understand that would require a reworking of how the gopher pops up, but it might be worth it. A clumsy player could essentially end the game.

I thought about this problem myself. I don't know about a gust of wind being a problem, but more likely the player's themselves knocking things and so on.

Your idea of reversing the setup so the board has no tiles on it, but the tiles are placed aside is an interesting one that I haven't really given all that much thought. As you indicate, when a gopher hole is placed, you would instead place a corresponding tile or locator chip in the bag for where the gopher hole was placed.

Maybe a better idea is to have each gopher hole counter with a number printed on it, with a corresponding location tile with the same number. At the beginning of the game you can set up maybe ten gopher holes with its corresponding number underneath it. So when a gopher hole is created, the counter is placed on the board, and the locator in the bag.

Another possibility is to have a stack of gopher location cards or some similar thing that can be shuffled but pulled out of a bag. The card would contain the coordinates of the gopher hole. The gopher hole would be placed on the board, and the card in the bag. Maybe this is the better option. It would not be cards per se, but a small square or rectangle item that could be shuffled.

Fos, what do you think?

To quote:

Quote:
Beyond that though, it looks fun, with lots of opportunity to add to the event and equipement cards as you continue to work on the game. How much interplayer action do you want in the game? Perhaps more event cards could focus on hindering other players, which might increase the strategy of the game. What do you see as the primary strategic choices? Positioning of your pawn, equipement purchases, luck of the draw?

Player interaction is a good thing to have in the game. I agree that there needs to be some more event cards or equipment that can be used to hinder other players. Thanks for pointing that out. Right now I only have one card called, "Lots o' Beer" that does that.

The primary strategic choices I see in the game is figuring out the best equipment to use given the layout of gopher holes and the placement of other players, to get a gopher.

To quote:

Quote:
It might end the game faster, but perhaps damage tiles would be fun. The humor of the gopher hunt has always been (to me) the destruction of all property to catch a minor property destroyer. If you set off a bomb, should a gopher hole be able to pop up next turn where the bomb has just gone off? Causing widespread damage to the game board sounds extremely fun to me, seems to be within the theme of the game, and might also increase strategic choices (though that would be minor with how many squares a player can move each turn).

I am trying to understand your idea. With certain equipment, are you suggesting the squares effected have a damage marker placed on the board around the affected area? Thus, if a gopher hole is there, it is removed in place of a damage marker? From your comment, I think you are suggesting that no gopher hole can turn up in a damaged area. Interesting. Maybe players would go ahead and purposely damage areas, so as to reduce the area where gophers can pop up. Maybe there can be special equipment that can create one or two damaged tiles a turn. I think there would have to be some threshold where if a third of the board is damaged the game ends. Great idea. When it gets to a play testing state, I'll go ahead and try it out. Thanks.

To quote:

Quote:
All in all, it looks really fun already. Good show.

Thanks.

--DarkDream

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Tue, 05/04/2004 - 18:42
#5
DarkDream
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Game #29 Get the Gopher! by DarkDream

Super,

To quote:

Quote:
The only thing that jumps out at me is probably the action point system for movement. Normally I like AP systems, but for what I’m guessing is a lighthearted beer and pretzels game, the math can become sort of a drag.

Originally, I had players rolling a d6 for movement, but I thought this way too random. I know what you are saying for action points. The only other ideas I have is rolling a d6 which has numbers 4-6 on it or something. Another idea is having movement cards, where equipment costs a certain movement to use.

There are various options here. I am open to any suggestions.

Thanks for the comment,

--DD

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Tue, 05/04/2004 - 19:40
#6
Fos
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Game #29 Get the Gopher! by DarkDream

I think you have the essential idea of the damage mechanic I suggested. To reword the rationale, it's funny when someone is so annoyed and driven they use TNT on a fly and the fly still escapes. That's the general idea behind the Tiger Woods commercial and why it's funny.

You already have the equipment, but there isn't any obvious indication on the board that you just blew up 5 squares to try to catch a gopher. Sounds like you already have some great ideas for how this could increase the strategy of the game.

Of course, this only exacerbates the issue of so many tiles on the board. I think your mechanics are solid, and it's entirely necessary to keep track of the properties of each tile. Unfortunately, I really can't think of a more elegant approach than 64 tiles, or digging through 64 tiles to find the matching tile to randomize gophers popping up. Though it does seem like this problem has probably been addressed before in a game. I worry, however, that the solution was probably plastic. Perhaps someone with a bit more experience knows how this dilema could be solved.

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Tue, 05/04/2004 - 20:30
#7
Anonymous
Game #29 Get the Gopher! by DarkDream

Quote:
Another idea is having movement cards, where equipment costs a certain movement to use.

Really it's the whole math (costs movement) thing that would possibly slow it down. An idea would be to give each player 6 cards marked 1-6. movement could be done simultaneously by each player placing a card face down and revealing at the same time, the players could move in order from lowest card to highest, tied players "trip" and don’t get to move that round. And equipment cards could just simply replace one of the 1-6 cards depending on what it is.
Once all six cards have been played from the player’s hand

I think this system would add suspense all though it would require changing practically the whole structure of the game. To something that could look like this

New holes appear/event card phase
All players buy stuff phase (player with the least money getting first pick)
players decide what cards they will use (whether or not they will keep movement cards instead of equipment)
Play six action rounds
Start over

So there are some suggestions as to what could replace the AP system.

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Wed, 05/05/2004 - 03:48
#8
Johan
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Game #29 Get the Gopher! by DarkDream

Hello

Theme
The theme is more then OK. At the first look at the title and the Overview (and a good graphic design) I would consider to get this game as filler (I would like the gophers to fight back, but that is just me).

Components
There are a lot of components. The question is:
- Do you need the gophers. I can not find anything in the rules how they are included in the game (score markers). The event cards indicate that they are used in the bag.
- Do you relay need the game board or the board tiles. I get the feeling that the tiles are just an overlay and the use of them could be solved in another way.
- Do you need the money. The only thing you can use the money for is to get Equipment cards and the cards are relay costy. If I want to get a $300 Equipment card I have to sacrifice 20-25% of my game time (29-39 event cards, one per player and turn gives 8-10 times each player can act in a 4-player game. To get $300 I have to close 3 gopher holes (2 actions per hole) and give up a complete movement phase). An alternative is to let the players give up a movement phase to get equipment, or combine the equipment cards and the event cards.

Quick notes.
- Who starts the game (This is normally the first question I got from my team when they read my game-rules).

Finally, I believe that with the theme and a lot of testing, you have a good start for a filler game.

// Johan

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Wed, 05/05/2004 - 12:12
#9
DarkDream
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Game #29 Get the Gopher! by DarkDream

Super,

Thanks for your idea. To quote:

Quote:
An idea would be to give each player 6 cards marked 1-6. movement could be done simultaneously by each player placing a card face down and revealing at the same time, the players could move in order from lowest card to highest, tied players "trip" and don’t get to move that round. And equipment cards could just simply replace one of the 1-6 cards depending on what it is.
Once all six cards have been played from the player’s hand

I think you are saying that the game would involve a series of turns of six rounds where every round a player can play a movement card or an equipment card (so as to use it, correct?). I also presume when you use the movement card it is discarded, correct? Each round involves each player placing face down one of the movement or equipment cards. Now with the movement, the person with the lowest number card gets to go first and for any ties a player misses their turn to move. How does the equipment card factor in? Maybe each equipment card has a number as well that functions the same as a movement number (I think this is what you are hinting at). An alternative to using a movement card in bidding is that a piece of equipment simply uses up a certain amount of movement to use. Right now to use a piece of equipment seems like it would take a whole round.

The skipping of a players turn may be too harsh for a tie. It may be very frustrating for players. I like you idea, as it does add suspese. Instead of a player's turn being skipped maybe the players would still go, but the order for the tied players would start with the player to the right of the last player to move (in a clockwise order) before the tied player's turn came around.

To quote:

Quote:
I think this system would add suspense all though it would require changing practically the whole structure of the game. To something that could look like this

New holes appear/event card phase
All players buy stuff phase (player with the least money getting first pick)
players decide what cards they will use (whether or not they will keep movement cards instead of equipment)
Play six action rounds
Start over

Maybe everytime you bid for movement, you get to keep your card again and can use movement to go to the store. With your version everyone gets to go to the store and get things, with an advantage to the player with the least money. Again resolving ties may be an issue.

Why I like the idea of loosing a turn or movement to go to the store, is it adds a little bit of an agonizing decision: If I go to the store and get something I want, I waste a whole turn in getting that gopher.

Anyway, thanks for you comments. It has sparked some thoughts. I will have to think it over, but I will go ahead and give the movement bidding mechanic a try in play testing.

Thanks again,

--DarkDream

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Wed, 05/05/2004 - 12:26
#10
DarkDream
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Game #29 Get the Gopher! by DarkDream

Johan,

Thanks for you comment. To quote:

Quote:
Theme
The theme is more then OK. At the first look at the title and the Overview (and a good graphic design) I would consider to get this game as filler (I would like the gophers to fight back, but that is just me).

Thanks. I thought the theme was quite funny and would be popular with the masses.

Quote:
Components
There are a lot of components. The question is:
- Do you need the gophers. I can not find anything in the rules how they are included in the game (score markers). The event cards indicate that they are used in the bag.
- Do you relay need the game board or the board tiles. I get the feeling that the tiles are just an overlay and the use of them could be solved in another way.
- Do you need the money. The only thing you can use the money for is to get Equipment cards and the cards are relay costy. If I want to get a $300 Equipment card I have to sacrifice 20-25% of my game time (29-39 event cards, one per player and turn gives 8-10 times each player can act in a 4-player game. To get $300 I have to close 3 gopher holes (2 actions per hole) and give up a complete movement phase). An alternative is to let the players give up a movement phase to get equipment, or combine the equipment cards and the event cards.

I do agree that there are a lot of components. Having 64 tiles for the board is a little too much. I think my previous idea of replacing the tiles (for gopher hole coordinate tracking) with small cards will get rid of all of the tiles, but that would add some more cards -- 64 to be exact. It may be possible to reduce it further by disallowing certain squares to have gopher holes.

I do think I need the gopher counters as they function as showing where a gopher popped up on the board (so players can rush and try to catch him), and it functions as a currency for scoring when you catch the critter.

I do need a game board, but a board with a golf course picture with a grid overlayed to indicate the coordinates for squares.

I will definitely have to adjust the amount for the equipment as opposed to the amount it costs to fill a gopher hole. Maybe 2 action points is too much to seal a hole, maybe 1 is better. Yes, skipping an entire turn maybe too much to go to the store. Using up a large number of action ponits (2-3) maybe better, and players may have to restart at a series of starting squares around the board (drove back).

Quote:
Quick notes.
- Who starts the game (This is normally the first question I got from my team when they read my game-rules).

I think the rules state that a player is picked randomly. Maybe rolling the eight sided die, and the highest number goes first.

Quote:
Finally, I believe that with the theme and a lot of testing, you have a good start for a filler game.

I have not play tested it yet, and it will definitely need a lot of refinement and testing. Thanks for the encouragement.

--DarkDream

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Fri, 05/07/2004 - 01:34
#11
Anonymous
Game #29 Get the Gopher! by DarkDream

Long live King Gopher.

First off, sounds like a fun game, I'll have to try it out.

I think the idea of placing the gopher holes on a board overlayed with the map of the course is a good one if worked properly. I'm going to go wishy-washy on this becuase I like the idea of people rushing to put their tokens on a board, except if you get someone with real good reflexes they more than likely win the set up(especially if playing me).

I have more of a comment than a suggestion, but something to consider. Could placing coordinates on one side of the gopher tiles (open side?) replace the dice? The gopher tiles are placed in the bag and drawn one per round. Event tiles could force players to reopen sealed gopher holes by saying something like "Draw a tile and place it" or "Draw a tile and open all Sealed holes in column X or row Y".

This would probably completely change the mechanics, but it would drastically reduce the number of pieces in the game and add a bit of strategy as the players try to remember/figure out what tiles are left in the bag.

Wow, this game is ripe with opportunities! Nice pic of the gopher.

Take it for what its worth,
Chance

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Fri, 05/07/2004 - 14:09
#12
DarkDream
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Game #29 Get the Gopher! by DarkDream

Chance,

Thanks for your response. I think the theme is definitely a seller with the younger and older crowd alike. The humorus and light theme I think will appeal to a lot of different players from non-gamers to gamers.

To quote:

Quote:
I have more of a comment than a suggestion, but something to consider. Could placing coordinates on one side of the gopher tiles (open side?) replace the dice? The gopher tiles are placed in the bag and drawn one per round. Event tiles could force players to reopen sealed gopher holes by saying something like "Draw a tile and place it" or "Draw a tile and open all Sealed holes in column X or row Y".

Chance, with the route I am going, by using coordinate cards to indicate where new gopher holes are, the dice are elminated. A coordinate card (or some type of counter) would be drawn, the gopher placed and the card (counter) put in a bag. The point is that this identifier would specify the coordinates of the gopher hole (there needs to be some way of picking a gopher hole randomly).

If I was still using the tiles to create the board, then the dice could definitely be elminated by instead of having coordinates on the gopher tiles themselves. Good idea.

However, you have sparked an interesting thought. Instead of having a seperate phase of selecting a coordinate card, the coordinate cards could be integrated with the event cards so a gopher hole placement would simply be considered another event. When the gopher placement card would be picked it would have to be placed aside face down. When a player would use an item to get a gopher, they would need to shuffle the cards and pick one.

How does this idea sound?

To quote:

Quote:
This would probably completely change the mechanics, but it would drastically reduce the number of pieces in the game and add a bit of strategy as the players try to remember/figure out what tiles are left in the bag.

Chance, maybe you can explain your idea more. I fail to see how your idea would drastically reduce the number of counters in the game.

I just had a little brain storm. Maybe this will work. Let me know what you think.

Each gopher hole has a unique number on it (1-30). The placement of the gopher holes would be through dice (in case want the gopher originating a seperate activity from the event cards) or an event card would give a coordinate or series of coordinates (maybe this is better). There would be
no location cards (eliminate an extra 64 cards). Instead there would be a bag of number counters 1-30 on it. When a gopher hole had to be choosen, a player picks a number from the bag. The gopher hole closest to that number gets picked. For example, if there are gopher holes numbered 5, 15 and 2 and a 20 is drawn then gopher hole labeled 15 is picked. If 7 was picked then gopher hole with label 5 would be choosen. Perfect.

Anyone with any comments?

Chance, thanks for contributing.

--DarkDream

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Tue, 05/11/2004 - 00:02
#13
Anonymous
Game #29 Get the Gopher! by DarkDream

DarkDream,

I think you got the gist of what I was trying to say. This is why I shouldn't post after midnight, my ideas turn into Gremlins.

Let me know how the changes work out for you.

Chance

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Tue, 05/11/2004 - 12:04
#14
SVan
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Joined: 10/02/2008
Game #29 Get the Gopher! by DarkDream

DarkDream wrote:
I just had a little brain storm. Maybe this will work. Let me know what you think.

Each gopher hole has a unique number on it (1-30). The placement of the gopher holes would be through dice (in case want the gopher originating a seperate activity from the event cards) or an event card would give a coordinate or series of coordinates (maybe this is better). There would be
no location cards (eliminate an extra 64 cards). Instead there would be a bag of number counters 1-30 on it. When a gopher hole had to be choosen, a player picks a number from the bag. The gopher hole closest to that number gets picked. For example, if there are gopher holes numbered 5, 15 and 2 and a 20 is drawn then gopher hole labeled 15 is picked. If 7 was picked then gopher hole with label 5 would be choosen. Perfect.

I haven't gotten to look at everything, but I think the theme is great for this game. I happened to see what you said above and felt like I could add to this.

I think the picking out of the bag is a great thing. In fact I'm thinking about doing it more often for my games. Dice seem like they are used too much.

I think the closest number will work as well, except I don't know what the closest tile is. Are you talking about the closest tile to the player who pcked out of the bag? I need to look it all when I get more time to see what else I can help with. So far it looks and sounds great. Keep us posted!

-Steve

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Tue, 05/11/2004 - 14:09
#15
DarkDream
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Game #29 Get the Gopher! by DarkDream

Svan,

If you do get more time to look over my game in its rough form, I would really appreciate any comments.

As for the tile drawing mechanism from a bag, let me explain it a little clearer. Right now I am considering having a maximum of 30 gopher holes on the board at one time (this seems a bit much, maybe I'll have less). Each of the gopher hole counters will have a number on it from 1-30. When a gopher hole is created, one of the gopher hole counters is choosen and placed on the appropriate place on the board.

As an example, let's say there are a total of three gopher hole counters on the board. They have the number 2, 20, and 8 printed respectively on each counter. A gopher pops out of one of the holes. To determine which gopher hole the gopher pops out of, I draw a counter from a bag that has a total of 30 counters in them labeled 1-30. Lets say I draw the counter and it has a value of 13 on it. The gopher hole counter with the number 8 on it is has a number closest to 13. Therefore the gopher hole with the printed number 8 is the gopher hole the gopher pops out of.

I noticed later that this idea has a couple of problems to it. One problem is that ties are possible between gopher holes, and depending on which gopher hole number is picked, the probability of a gopher showing up for a particular hole may not be equal.

The solution to the tie problem is by having gopher hole counters and counters in the bag skip numbers. In other words, you would have gopher tiles with the printed numbers 2, 5, 6, 9, 11, 14 and so on. Let's say the gopher tiles 5 and 11 are on the board. A 9 counter is drawn from the bag, the 11 counter is choosen. If you try different numbers you will find that no ties are possible.

The solution to the other problem is to simply make sure the gopher counters are picked in a certain order. For the sake of simplicity, let's say the gopher hole counters have 2, 5, 6, 9, 11, and 14 printed on each one respectively. Gopher hole 2 is the first one placed down, followed by 14, then 9, then 6, 5, and 11. While the probabilities are not exactly equal it will turn out that they are somewhat the same (especially with larger numbers) and there can be a probability bias towards new holes (which thematically makes sense).

Any thoughts or comments are appreciated.

--DarkDream

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Tue, 05/11/2004 - 15:00
#16
SVan
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Joined: 10/02/2008
Game #29 Get the Gopher! by DarkDream

I will definately look at it more when I get the chance. Last week was too busy for me to look at it then.

I have another solution that may work for you. Keep the numbers 1-30 for both the counters and the tiles in the bag. When a number is drawn, and there is a tie between 2 counters, then the tie could go to the higher number hole. It's definately a patch, but it seems less clunky and time consuming for you than the skipping numbers idea.

Hope this helps!

-Steve

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Tue, 05/11/2004 - 15:24
#17
Brykovian
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Joined: 07/21/2008
Game #29 Get the Gopher! by DarkDream

SVan wrote:
I have another solution that may work for you. Keep the numbers 1-30 for both the counters and the tiles in the bag. When a number is drawn, and there is a tie between 2 counters, then the tie could go to the higher number hole. It's definately a patch, but it seems less clunky and time consuming for you than the skipping numbers idea.

I was having a similar thought ... seems that a quick-and-easy-to-remember rule, like the suggested "higher number wins" would be a "good enough" tie-breaker in this case.

Or, how 'bout letting the player who drew the chip from the bag gets to pick from the two that are tied?

-Bryk

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Wed, 09/22/2004 - 09:57
#18
emxibus
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Joined: 10/24/2008
Game #29 Get the Gopher! by DarkDream

DarkDream,

Looks to be a fun game. I think the frantic setup race for cash is cool. It gets everyone involved, and helps setup the game. It sets the pace and feel that hunting gophers might have. One idea that might help with the human "knocking factor" would be to make the board bigger. Have each square twice the size of the different tokens. Then draw the terrain map on the board. For those terrain tokens that have graphics on them, draw the lines as if the token was in the middle of the square. This might give the overall board an odd look, but it's a thought.

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