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Good idea ... bad implementation

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larienna
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This is a common comment that I make to many game I played because sometimes it's true that the ideas behind the game are good, but once you played the game, it feels Meh!

I seem to suffer from a related symptom that I have good ideas and when I talk to people about it, they seem amazed. But when its time to implement it, either it does not work, either it takes too much time to implement or ether it does not end up as expected.

Now am I trying to find solution to my problem to make game design more fluid.

I once said that I felt sometimes that designing board game was like trying to fit an elephant in a shoe box. The basic idea is to compress reality into a game by abstracting concepts and removing unnecessary ones.

There seem to be somewhat 2 phase to the compression process that cannot be sharply defined. The first compression phase take time X to make the first 75% of the game (1 leg and the trunk are still outside the box). At this point, the game could be implemented as a video strategy game, but not as a board game because some mechanics could not work (ex: fog of war). The last 25% require another amount of time X or even 2X to be able to finish the compression. Not only it takes much more time to achieve less, but it also de-naturise the game so much that it lost it's initial essence.

Quick example: I wanted to make a tactical modern game like Conflict, advance wars, etc. (See my fog of war thread). But after looking at my notes, most of the time spent on design seem to focus on how to implement fog of war in an elegant way. How simplify the management of the game to make sure you do not need to remember which of the 50 units you have had moved, etc. How to trace supply lines, since you cannot keep track of fuel depletion of individual units. These are all obstacles that I would not have to face if the game was implemented as a video game instead. and trying to find a board game solution change the nature of the game.

Same thing for trying to compress master of magic as a board game, I ended up designing something that was not what I was expecting. Not that the results are bad, it's just that they do not fit my primary objectives.

So I think that I could have saved some design time if instead of compressing the concept further, I would have kept the idea for a video game instead. Of course, video game takes time to develop, so I cannot be entirely sure that time is going to be saved at the end. But I could have stopped pushing the idea further and work on other games instead.

Now the problem is that I realize it too late when I spent so much time on an idea and realize I went too far.

I mostly get my mechanic ideas from other video games and board games. I could use the mechanic source as a clue about if it could be transposed easily to a board game or not. For example, using a mechanic idea from a video game could be a warning that it will not work as a board game. But it is never entirely true. Still, using only mechanics from other board games could be a solution.

Another idea would be to define a threshold and know when it's time to stop and not push the compression further. How much prototype-able is a game could be a clue of how well it could be implemented as a board game, but I have been able to make prototypes for game ideas that went nowhere.

I don't know what you think about it. My explanation seems pretty abstract, so I am not sure they make sense. But if you have any suggestion on how to identify ideas that won't make it to the end as a board game, let me know.

SugarPillStudios
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When someone says, "good

When someone says, "good idea, bad implementation" they usually mean the idea sounded fun but didn't live up to that expectation. This describes most of the designs that I weed out very early on. Although sounding like a good idea is important for marketing and selling a game, making a fun "good" implementation is the real challenge in game design. This is why nobody cares to buy or steal ideas in this industry.

In terms of identifying problems early on, my best advice is to prototype and test the most novel aspects of your games as early as possible. Along these lines I wouldn't worry (early on) as much about mechanics of systems like fog of war unless that's where most of the player's enjoyment is supposed to come from. Focus first on finding that enjoyment in its simplest form, and build on that to make it even better. Lifting sets of mechanics from another game can feel like a shortcut, but can also bog your design down with elements that were specific to the fun of the game they came from. I'd try to refrain from adding such elements until after you have a solid basis for a game: a kind of MVG: minimum viable game.

laperen
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Joined: 04/30/2013
when compressing an idea, it

when compressing an idea, it helps to have a focus
what is the experience you are trying to achieve?
what part of your game do you want to be the most engaging?
what do you want to teach in your game?
...
there are many more questions you could ask yourself, you'll have to search yourself to ask these questions, which should lead you to the focus of your game

after you have a focus, everything else should be much easier, since you will have a direction to go in

radioactivemouse
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Implementation of ideas

You're looking at things the wrong way...at least that's what I'm reading.

You cannot just create a design where it's going to be, out of the gate, brilliant and ready to be shipped. Creative undertakings are not like math problems. In math, once you find a solution, you're done. In creative undertakings, you're constantly iterating and iterating and iterating.

So what's the key? Playtesting.

You create what you believe is a good idea, create a prototype, PLAY it, iterate it, PLAY it again, iterate it, wash, rinse, repeat.

It's trial and error. The problem with ideas I've seen (even my own) is that we think we have a great idea, but we never see it to completion or we give up after the first playtesting session doesn't go to our liking.

This is not how we should approach games. If this were the case we'd never make games.

Here's a good example. Leonardo Da Vinci created "logical" plans for flying machines, but never tested them (or at least from what we know). The most brilliant man arguably thought flying consisted of a helix-like spiral blade. To us it seems silly, but it took two brothers constantly rebuilding bike parts to make an engine and a design that created the modern airplane.

laperen
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Joined: 04/30/2013
upon re-reading this article,

upon re-reading this article, in full and not just glancing through, i want to provide a supplement to my previous reply.

one of the signs of a game design that wont work as a boardgame is if the inspiration for your idea came from a videogame. all fine and well if the characters or theme are what you want to reference, but if mechanics is what you want to get from your videogame inspiration, there's a chance it cant be used at all, or not without a lot of simplification

how far to simplify to, generally the simpler it is the better, but if you are worried of making big changes, what i do is save my ideas in versions, and anytime i find a new amendment that makes the experience for my players worse, i just revert it to an old version.

"Sun Tzu says, all war is deception", this is true for any competitive arena, ranging from sport to business, competitive games are not excused from this wide reaching saying. using your fog of war in a boardgame as an example, it works well in a video game since no part of the entire map is visible at any one time, but in a boardgame the entire board is in plain sight. if you want an element of surprise or having actions hidden, you must depend on your materials to portray that experience

there is no easy answer to tell you what can or can't work in a boardgame, its a matter of how well you select your game components(what the players interact with), to match the experience you are trying to portray, through your game

radioactivemouse has said more or less the points for playtesting so i wont add to it

larienna
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Sorry for the late reply, I

Sorry for the late reply, I have been in vacation

Quote:
how far to simplify to, generally the simpler it is the better, but if you are worried of making big changes, what i do is save my ideas in versions, and anytime i find a new amendment that makes the experience for my players worse, i just revert it to an old version.

I don't have a detailed versionning system, but I do keep all my notes on a game, so I can trace the evolution of it. Like I said, for one of my idea, I realized that much of the latest paper work consisted in compressing the game to make fog of war possible without ever succeeding. If I could realize it sooner that it would denaturize the game to do so, I would have done something else.

But it's hard to know prior to working on the compression that too much time is going to be invested into a direction with little results. I think the only mechanism I could use is that when I jump back into a design, maybe taking a step back to analyse the game as a whole could allow me to realize that pushing too much in a direction might not be possible.

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