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Math help needed with "expensive" cards

38 replies [Last post]
Thu, 09/14/2017 - 15:52
#31
FrankM
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Joined: 01/27/2017
Card text

X3M wrote:
Roll ammount of dice, equal to your (current) AP per round. 1 and 2 are failures. Do not roll more then 2 failures: add 1 (extra) AP per round.

***

That the card is discarded after the attempt, is a given in this game.
Further, dunno if the (current) and (extra) should be added. They do emphasis how the card should work.

I will consider the 2d scenario as well. But the limit of 11 ap is not appealing for a certain special scenario.

How about:

Roll a number of dice equal to your current AP per round. If fewer than three dice show a "1" or "2", add 1 additional AP per round.

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Thu, 09/14/2017 - 22:30
#32
X3M
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Yes! I think we got

Yes!
I think we got it.
FrankM's text looks the best.

Thank uou all!

Next play is next sunday.

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Fri, 09/15/2017 - 10:44
#33
Fri
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Joined: 09/06/2017
Good job Frank. I did a lot

Good job Frank. I did a lot better at math then English in school :).

I thought of another possible test for this lottery card. It would be the sum of the first two cards of the draw pile versus current AP. Written as: Draw and reveal two cards if the sum is greater than or equal to your current AP per round, add 1 additional AP per round.

I calculated the probability of success based on the draw pile being the 44 cards that you are not playing.

AP probability

1 100%
2 100%
3 96,19
4 88,58
5 78,96
6 67,34
7 55,29
8 43,73
9 33,09
10 23,26
11 15,43
12 9,62
13 5,71
14 3,07
15 1,59
16 0,63
17 0,21
18+ 0%

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Fri, 09/15/2017 - 11:56
#34
X3M
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I too am still searching

Sorry Fri. I did not want to sound ungrateful. If it wasn't for you, I did not come this far. The same goes for any one else that helped me.

***

The reveal cards is also a good option. But my play buddies prefer "infinity". Not that they would get any where near the higher numbers.
And ehm, cards are very worthwhile as in "fog of war" events.

***

My cousin actually thought of one as well.
At AP 3, a penalty roll of 1.
At AP 4, a penalty roll of 2.
etc.

Ok, I need to explain that. The game has penalty rolls for combat, but also for certain event cards.
It is no secret that sometimes, we have like 20 penalty rolls for 2 big armies that move adjacent of each other. More often it is around 5 or so.

A penalty roll is 5/6th of a chance to succeed and continue.
A penalty roll of 2 means, rolling 2 dice. And both may not roll a 6. If so, your projectile fails in even reaching the target.
In the game, it is already summarized to, for example:

example wrote:
Penalty 2

He thought, the same can be done with the card. But then to see if you get the AP or not.

AP/round - 3 is the penalty roll. I added 1 for a higher chance. So, the card could get the following text as short as possible:

card wrote:
Penalty "AP per round - 3".
Succeed, and you may add 1 additional AP per round.

Or would that be too short?

The distribution of chances is here:
http://anydice.com/program/cefb
Follow the 0 return results. Where 0 means 0 fails are permitted.

Please take note:
These are 4 to 10 AP/round. Not 1 to 7 AP/round.
Another note:
The game has a table, where you can see how to simplify multiple penalties.
Penalty 4 can be translated to just 1 roll of 3/6th.
Penalty 10 can be translated to just 1 roll of 1/6th.

For the card, those 2 penalties would be at 7 and 13 AP per round.

I don't know which to choose just yet. But I will take a look at several curves again.

With the previous description. (The one that FrankM won)
7: 57,06
8: 46,82
9: 37,72
10: 29,91
11: 23,41
12: 18,11

And the penalty version.
7: 48,23
8: 40,19
9: 33,49
10: 27,91
11: 23,26
12: 19,38

Eventually, the penalty version has better chances after 11 AP per round.
Is easier to learn.
Is easier to simplify.
And if needed, easier to change effectiveness by changing the -3 into -4. And thus lifting all chances by an entire level.

But somehow, it doesn't feel well to have players subtract 3 from ... aaah, who am I kidding. They do math like 405 H - 2 * 81 D in the game, for god sake!

This time, I am going to let my players vote. If they vote against penalty. I will reconsider.

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Fri, 09/15/2017 - 13:39
#35
Fri
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Joined: 09/06/2017
No worries. Just pitching

No worries. Just pitching some alternatives to accomplish the same goal. Since we were only talking about the card aspect of your game, I did not know that you already had a lot of dice on hand. My solutions were based on trying to minimize the number of components, which I can see now is not really an issue.

I have suggestion for a slight improvement of your 3/6 and 1/6 dice and lookup table. You could make the base dice, 3/6 dice, and 1/6 dice different colors and put the appropriate values from the table on each face of the die. This will speed up game play and be easier for the players.

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Fri, 09/15/2017 - 16:11
#36
X3M
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Yeah. I had some crt dice.

Yeah. I had some crt dice. Since the combat had different values as well. I went from 011233 to 001234 and a 111222 x 011233 to 012345.

If you look at the average results. You understand the change. Simply said. Only normal dice are the norm now.

Got my hands on 99 d6. 5 mm. But decent.

The table is handy because penalties can go from 1 all the way up to 10 for most games. Better to use the same dice instead of different ones.

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Fri, 09/15/2017 - 16:16
#37
FrankM
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Joined: 01/27/2017
1, 4, and 10 dice

Fri wrote:
No worries. Just pitching some alternatives to accomplish the same goal. Since we were only talking about the card aspect of your game, I did not know that you already had a lot of dice on hand. My solutions were based on trying to minimize the number of components, which I can see now is not really an issue.

I have suggestion for a slight improvement of your 3/6 and 1/6 dice and lookup table. You could make the base dice, 3/6 dice, and 1/6 dice different colors and put the appropriate values from the table on each face of the die. This will speed up game play and be easier for the players.

Assuming the regular dice are used for something other than penalty checks, they can be made with numbers 1-5 in green and 6 in red. Then a Penalty 4 Die (maybe a yellow cube) has three red "X" marks on it (it doesn't matter what is on the other three sides, but they should be green); finally a Penalty 10 Die (maybe an orange cube) has five red "X" marks (and one side with a green mark on it).

Roll the appropriate dice, no red = success.

Obviously the exact colors are a stand-in. Just avoid any colors that sync with an important game element (for example, if there are Red and Green armies).

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Sat, 09/16/2017 - 14:34
#38
X3M
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I think I allow the card in a

I think I allow the card in a later mission. Not in mission 3 where the ap per round is only 3. From 3 ap to 4 ap is a lot too.

And minus 4 is needed to increase the chance on 7 ap to 8 ap the wanted ammount. So the current ap -4 on the penalty.

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