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A pirate game where players take turns as the captain

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saluk
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Joined: 05/11/2010

The basic concept: players are a crew on a pirate ship vying for the captain's spot. Missions happen during the voyage that rewards the whole ship, but the player who is captain when the ship docks get a bigger share. Ship goes out again and again a few times until the pirates are old enough to retire, and the winner is the one who has amassed the most loot.

First: are there any similar games I can look at for inspiration? The closest to what I am making that I've played is battlestar galactica, except instead of a hidden traitor, everyone is a potential traitor.

Second: I'm struggling a bit with how the actual game works and where to put the abstraction. My first idea (and I already went a bit crazy and printed out 100 cards or so for it that didn't work at all) is a worker placement on the ship that is also area control. The places you go operate ship functions (repairing damage, cooking food, firing cannons), but also let you convert the crew tokens that are there to your side. When morale is low, you flip the tokens and see if any player has more support from the crew than the captain, and then they become the new captain. My problem here was in balancing the two types of gameplay, and figuring out what the actual battles are like.

I felt like there weren't enough interesting things to do on the ship at this resolution. Oh, we are in combat? Everyone go to the canon space to shoot. If Billy is already on the canon space, uh... you can go cook some more food? In the middle of a fight?

I'm trying a few different things here in my head, and I think it may be workable and just not there yet.

On the other hand, I have been coming up with an alternative that might be simpler. It would be more of a deck-builder style game, where you buy cards for your deck each time you go to port. You balance playing cards that help with shared ship resources and cards that increase your faction strength and make it more likely for you to become captain. Perhaps the cannons have a certain amount of time before they can fire again, and some of the cards can speed that along.

I don't really know what I'm asking. I guess, should I keep persuing the more granular adventure style game where you move your tokens around on a ship, or would it be better to stick with cards? Do you see any glaring problems with the main mechanic of players working together to achieve victory in battle, while simultaneously trying to become captain? (And then repeating that a few times so it's not just "yay I'm the captain so I win!")

radioactivemouse
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Joined: 07/08/2013
Maybe be an odd suggestion...

When I read "A pirate game where players take turns as the captain", the first game I thought of was a small card game called Red7. Each turn, the current player has to have the best card at the end of their turn or they are out of the game.

How I thought this would work is that a player will have to "take over" as captain on their turn and do a plunder, or they either are knocked out or they don't get any plunder on their turn (which I'm more supporting of). That way, players are constantly trying to strategize how to be captain, but also trying to strategizing big moves when they are captain.

I dunno...I'm really tired and this just came to me. If it helps, cool. If not, then just ignore this :P

saluk
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Joined: 05/11/2010
It did give me some new ideas

It did give me some new ideas actually. This is probably the simplest version of the idea, so I might start here, even though I was aiming for a bigger more complex game, it might be a good way to start to experiment with the base mechanic:

* Shared deck of cards "ship" deck.
* Contains encounters, crew members, and ship locations
* Everyone draws a hand
* On your turn, you play all of the cards in your hand
* encounters and ship locations are played in the center
* if there are multiple encounters, they are played face down under each other
* crew members can be played on the encounter, on the ship, or on a player
* when played on a player he will affect that player's faction strength, when played on a ship location or an encounter, will affect those cards (making cannons stronger, increasing loot on a plunder encounter etc)
* at the end of a round:
* if an encounter was played: the encounter is resolved. the captain can now rearrange the crew cards on the ship or encounter; as well as trading them for his own faction cards if desired, to maximize faction strength and plunder. Plunder is sent to the captain, but he can distribute some to the other players.
* after the encounter is resolved, a mutiny occurs. each player's faction is pitted against each other. winner becomes captain, and remaining faction cards are discarded

The only real question mark for me in this design (before I start making cards and finding more questions!) is how the mutiny works. Crews could simply be numbers, you add them up and just go with the highest number. But what about if a player knows they aren't going to win the bid... Should they be allowed to save their crew for later rather than trying to win the captainship? So you could play low crew members when you think the reward isn't going to be good enough, and then build a stronger crew to be captain for better plunder. Also, does everyone just compare numbers in one go? Or is their a head to head where the weakest crew members are lost and it is a battle of attrition?

mcobb83
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Joined: 06/07/2016
Pirate! I'm no expert on

Pirate! I'm no expert on Pirates, but I have read more than a few (historical, research type) books on the subject and written a few academic history papers on them too...

Firstly, I like your premise, since it is very similar to how pirate vessels functioned. They were much more democratic than we think they were, and when the crew was dissatisfied with current leadership, they simply picked a new one.

I also like your worker placement idea. I have a few thoughts that may help.

1) make the game semi-cooperative. Every turn a specific series of events happens, and if they aren't resolved the ship suffers. Attach each event to a location on the ship. For example, fighting is attached to the cannons; eating to the galley; navigating to the stern/poop deck; pludering to the main deck; sailing to the sails...anyway, some ideas and you get the picture. Every turn players assign workers to the various areas of the ship, and after workers are assigned the challenges are revealed.

So, challenges: lets take combat. From a deck of cards you could turn anything from a small sloop to a first-rate man-o-war. It would require a number of men on the guns, and if there weren't enough, the crew would take a morale hit. The same with every obstacle. If morale drops low enough, then the captain is replaced by whomever had the most workers on successful challenges. So if the ship battle was won, but morale dipped, whomever had the most workers on ship battle would be the next captain. Obviously there are some bugs to work out, like what to do in a tie, but this could work.

After the challenges are done, booty is doled out and the crew sails again.

saluk
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Joined: 05/11/2010
Thanks for the input mcobb83.

Thanks for the input mcobb83. When I first explained my idea to a friend, he thought it was weird that, after a mutiny, the former captain would rejoin the ship. This beached me for a while until I did some research myself and learned about the more democratic operation of many ships :)

Your expansion of my WP version is very similar to the 200+ deck that I had printed out. I did in fact have cannons, galley, sails, etc. The problem is, it feels like each location is really only useful in one situation, and each situation really only works with one location. A good wp game makes you WANT to go to all the spots, but forces you to try and choose the BEST spots among many.

If you know the next event is a battle (and in my version0 you would always draw the event first and then position) then everyone just wants to go on the guns. If you draw a hurricane, everyone should go on the sails.

If you DON'T know what event is coming next... then it's just guessing? "Well we've fought a lot of battles, let's go to the sails because the next card probably isn't a battle" There's not a lot of room for players to clamor/argue about which spots should be manned and who is going to go where.

Now, in order to combat this problem, I've thought of a slight modification. Instead of drawing one encounter, you draw several. You know one of them is a fight, one of them is navigating around a storm, one is something to do with the food stocks. But you don't know the values. Some of the spots may let you peek at the values (spyglass, navigation room) of one of the cards. So the decision is which locations do you think need the most people? To offset the randomness, players can have skill cards which modify the values after the encounters are revealed.

Won encounters earn the majority player points while lost ones lose the minority player points. If your points are ever higher than morality, you become the captain.

Unlike traditional WP, it's not really an action draft, but a resource allocation with a bit of a bidding mechanic.

Yeah I still feel like it doesn't work. The decisions seem... arbitrary.

saluk
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Joined: 05/11/2010
I worked out a version of the

I worked out a version of the card game that works with a poker deck and did some playtesting. Essentially, everyone gets your hands, and then you try to balance winning a pot contest in the open with winning against the other players in secret. It was super boring with 2 players. There may be some interesting mechanics in there but it's pretty far from the pirate adventure game that I was going for. It doesn't feel worth pursuing further.

So I'm going to head back to my original plan and see if I can make it work. I'm not sure about worker placement or more tactical movement. Or something else... Role selection a la Citadels? I might as well try everything!

Due to the election, and the discussion of the diplomatic pirate captain, I've thought of a similar game about running for president. While president, you try to implement certain policies - your successors may be able to use those policies against you later. Perhaps that is going to be a sequel to the pirate game, and perhaps it might be easier to design and I switch to it.

We shall see. I'm happy to hear any other ideas, otherwise I will just keep plugging away!

radioactivemouse
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Joined: 07/08/2013
An idea

saluk wrote:
I worked out a version of the card game that works with a poker deck and did some playtesting. Essentially, everyone gets your hands, and then you try to balance winning a pot contest in the open with winning against the other players in secret. It was super boring with 2 players. There may be some interesting mechanics in there but it's pretty far from the pirate adventure game that I was going for. It doesn't feel worth pursuing further.

So I'm going to head back to my original plan and see if I can make it work. I'm not sure about worker placement or more tactical movement. Or something else... Role selection a la Citadels? I might as well try everything!

Due to the election, and the discussion of the diplomatic pirate captain, I've thought of a similar game about running for president. While president, you try to implement certain policies - your successors may be able to use those policies against you later. Perhaps that is going to be a sequel to the pirate game, and perhaps it might be easier to design and I switch to it.

We shall see. I'm happy to hear any other ideas, otherwise I will just keep plugging away!

I was thinking...play a simple poker game before each round (Note there is a similar mechanic in the card game Doomtown: Reloaded) to determine who the "captain" is for that round. The loser gains a "wild" card for the next turn (if they have a full hand of wild cards, they must be the captain the next round). That way all players will have a chance to become captain and strategize their big moves.

Again...just an idea.

Willem Verheij
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Joined: 06/08/2016
It might be a thing to have

It might be a thing to have different pirate characters that players can be that could have two benefits: One that they always have, and one as the captain.

A big strong brute for example could be great at any fighting, but could get less reward for it because he tends to break things.
As the captain his fighting bonus would be increased a bit as he pushes the crew to follow his example, but this also means less reward for the entire crew due to carelessnes.

The navigator could allow the ship to move further than usual when he is the captain, and he could maybe be allowed to peek at the top card of any encounter deck that would have to do with weather or locations.

The gambler could be able to throw a dice to try and gain more than his share of the spoils, but it could also backfire causing his share to be divided amongst the other players.
As captain he could also have some effect to do with chance.

And so on. Could also be a seductress, a gentleman pirate, a deserter, a tough survivor, a cannoneer, carpenter, etc.

saluk
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Joined: 05/11/2010
I like the idea of having

I like the idea of having some kind of catchup for the guy who keeps having a hard time being captain. I might include that in the design somewhere. Another option would be to not make being captain a requirement for winning. There could be some other strategies toward making money that are viable if you get in a game where it seems unlikely you will ever be captain. Or even different winning conditions than money at all! Maybe you can win via reputation or finding buried treasure.

Thanks for the idea!

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