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Rules of communication in co-op

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Haemmerroid
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The idea, currently, is this.
A co-op game based around a theatre and doing plays on stage. You and your group, consistent of the pretty-boy, the old nag, the shy girl and obviously director and stage-hand (etc.), will use their respective character bonusses on a tour playing varying dramatic plays. But like every amateur group, your level of failure is to be seen, so with every curtain call your audience will shrink. You start with 100, but will you have any viewers left at the end of your tour?

The mechanics.
Aren't fully worked out, but it's basically a push-your-luck card game. I won't go too far into any detail, but what's important to know is that during a scene (where cards are played) some players are on stage, some are backstage. The ones on stage are playing but, since they're ON stage, there's an audience watching, so they can't communicate. The players backstage can.
Achievement cards can be received when doing well. Obviously penalty cards for screwing up can be received as well. For instance, when players are communicating while on stage, they will receive a BOO from the audience; a penalty.

The problem.
The issue with the Alpha has been discussed many times, and I've read a lot about it. I want my game to be fully co-op, so no secrets and no spy. I realize that what will probably happen in this game is that everybody shows their cards, discusses the options and tries to figure out the best possible way to play. An ideal situation for an Alpha to swoop in and take over. However, I'm thinking of adding rules to the game which tell you what you can and cannot discuss. Penalizing the group when breaking it.

My question.
Would you, as a player or a group, accept a rule that prohibits you from discussing, for example, your exact hand? And would you be willing to penalize yourself when doing so? Even if it might result in you losing the game?

I know a game like Hanabi (great co-op) clearly states in it's rules that the level of communication will determine the difficulty and you yourself have to determine what level of strictness fits you best. But do you think this can be regulated?

I've gone over this a million times, and though I wish it can work, I haven't been able to convince myself. I'm considering switching to dice. You can trust dice.

wombat929
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Haemmerroid wrote: My

Haemmerroid wrote:

My question.
Would you, as a player or a group, accept a rule that prohibits you from discussing, for example, your exact hand? And would you be willing to penalize yourself when doing so? Even if it might result in you losing the game?

I know a game like Hanabi (great co-op) clearly states in it's rules that the level of communication will determine the difficulty and you yourself have to determine what level of strictness fits you best. But do you think this can be regulated?

I've gone over this a million times, and though I wish it can work, I haven't been able to convince myself. I'm considering switching to dice. You can trust dice.

Perhaps if the rulebook makes clear why that rule is there, but generally, my group doesn't follow communication limitations on co-op games, unless it makes clear thematic sense.

let-off studios
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To answer your specific

To answer your specific questions: sure, I'd be willing to penalize myself for communicating. And yes, there's a way to regulate this. Develop some sort of mechanic that allows the trade-off to occur. I'm sure you can develop some sort of mechanic in the game that allows for players to speak. For example: discarding unused cards from hand to communicate, or automatically collect an additional BOO card. Or integrate the dice as the alternative: choose to stay silent and use cards (more of a sure thing), or to communicate and use dice (much more reliant on luck).

A question for you: Is there any reason you can think of where players would want to keep information secret from one another, and still have it consistent with the theme? I can think of a few, but maybe that's because I actually have a degree in Theatre. :)

The mechanic(s) you can develop presents two different types of scenarios...
1. A player who doesn't communicate with the other players helps prevent bad things from happening to everyone on their team.

-OR-

2. A player who doesn't communicate with the other players advances their own position.

There can be significant differences between these two. And I imagine that live theatre (along with a host of other thematic environments) offers several possibilities for both.

Break a leg with your game design! ;)

Zag24
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Joined: 03/02/2014
You could make it work

As wombat929 suggests, the rule is more likely to be followed if it makes thematic sense. In this case, I think it does. I suggest that you make the rule that the

Stage Manager can speak openly, since he would be in a position to whisper to the people on stage.

The other backstage people have a limited communication, with the mechanic that they can only show cards to the other backstage people, and may not talk aloud about cards they might play or card effects.

The onstage people may not show or tell anyone their cards. Also, they may not see the cards of other people or participate in the pointing and pantomiming. However, they have available a special "Improvise" action (for which they burn a card that would be used for some other purpose for a backstage person, or there's some other cost that makes sense within your game). The "Improvise" action allows them to speak openly for 30 seconds, but still not to show their cards. The thematic concept is that they are communicating to the backstage but doing it "in character" so it doesn't cost penalties. By having this escape hatch, where they really can communicate game issues at some significant cost, it will make them less likely to "cheat" on their communication hindrance.

If your game also includes rules for changing roles, so that everyone has some time with each type of limitation, I think that could be quite fun. For a small amateur or nearly-amateur touring company, this fits the theme, because often for different plays they switch around who directs, who is stage manager, etc.

heckmanjr
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Joined: 08/25/2015
Sure, but I wouldn't like it as much...

Haemmerroid wrote:

My question.
Would you, as a player or a group, accept a rule that prohibits you from discussing, for example, your exact hand? And would you be willing to penalize yourself when doing so? Even if it might result in you losing the game?

To answer your question, I would accept a rule that prohibits specific table-talk, but I think I would enjoy a game more if there was a mechanic in place that blocked "conversation" in a different way. Maybe something like a turn-sequence that had the on-stage player(s) take their turn before off stage players? Or having certain players share communal card hands or something like that?

On another note, having done some community theater myself...I love the theme!

Haemmerroid
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Defenitely stuff to think about

Wow, thanks a lot guys. I just signed up for the forum and didn't expect this level of feedback from such a simple question. It's really giving me stuff to think about.
Moreover, it's made me realize that I'm in the early, early stages of development. I thought I had something going, but I really need to get back to the drawing board and work out some ideas before getting to the actual developing. Defenitely a good thing, though.

let-off studios:
Great input. Going for cards, not dice, still is my first and favorite choice. I am going to have to think of ways to spread the theme out thicker and really make it ooze through every mechanic. A challenge, but in the end definitely worth it.
Yet keeping information from each other seems like going for a semi-coop game, and that's raelly what I'm trying to make here. I can think of no reason, in a fully coop game, to withhold info from your fellow teammates. I do agree that the theme would allow for a non-coop game to work. I've been on stage a couple of times, I kind-of know what it can be like :)

Zag24:
I like your suggestions on the roles with different special abilities, making it legal to "cheat" every now and again. I have thought about the special cards like improvise as well. Great stuff. Tons of possibilities here.

heckmanjr:
Thanks for the suggestion, and I see your point. Obviously, I wouldn't want to ban all forms of communication. I'm just worried about about open hands of cards so everyone can see, like some of my group like to do with Pandemic for example. In this case everyone can see everything, and there's an open discussion on what to do. Your suggestion seems to be heading in the same direction. Something to think about though.

All in all, there's some work to do. But really guys, great stuff. Your suggestions gave me the confidence that the theme is stronger than what I initially thought. Any future suggestions are more than welcome, but you'll probably find me back here with another question at some point :)

Thanks

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