What to do about "Mana"?

Tue, 08/23/2016 - 23:03

#1

Mark Simulacra

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Joined: 05/21/2015

.

It doesn't really seem like there's quite enough information here to determine how to manage the resource generation. As that's a fundamental balancing factor behind everything else in your game.

The resource name would likely depend on the games flavor - so for a mecha game it could be something like 'fuel'.

Tue, 08/23/2016 - 23:37

#2

questccg

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Joined: 04/16/2011

Not certain

With regards to the resource name, it's a Medieval Fantasy theme.

And I've got something in my "head" but it's just not materializing... I want the game to be simple such that there are seven (7) "Virtue Points" you can win with... Each player "battles" with strategy to win these points. As it is an odd number, it is possible to always determine a winner.

I'm working with an RPS-9, but I don't want "random" placement to be the deciding factor behind victory. Nor should placement on the field/table be the conclusive factor... I'm not certain about how the "comparison" mechanic will work either.

The "Battle" mechanic is also not certain. I don't know if I want those stats - I had a more solid idea - but I'm re-thinking it.

Going to mull it over some more...

Wed, 08/24/2016 - 01:47

#3

MKG

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Joined: 08/22/2016

Energy?

First thing that came to mind when trying to find another name for this "mana", was simply "Energy"

How to manage it depends of how much of it players can have and how it is gained.
Without adding too much pieces to game, If amount of mana will be not larger than 8, you can go with onre card for each player. Each of those could have a number on each edge. So 1-4 on one side, and 5-8 on other side. And depending which edge of card is pointing to player, that much mana You have.
You can also do with one card, but make it so opposing numbers are adding to 9. Then when one player uses "Mana", other gains it.

Just few ideas.

Wed, 08/24/2016 - 01:48

#4

mcobb83

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Joined: 06/07/2016

So if I summarize -- you have

So if I summarize -- you have a half formed nascent idea and you're looking for something concrete, perhaps to firm things up with?

You might name it Potentia. It's a simple enough word. It's Latin (a word that fits well in a medieval theme) and it means power, might, or force.

As for a generation mechanic, since it's a micro game, why not give each player mana/Potentia equal to the turn? So on turn 1, they both have 1 mana. On turn 2, they would have 2. 3 on 3, and so on.

Wed, 08/24/2016 - 05:16

#5

X3M

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Joined: 10/28/2013

Resources in real life serve

Resources in real life serve only 2 purposes:

You can "build" things.
and/or
You can "fuel" things.

So, does it only fuel your abilities? Or do you do some construction as well? For example buying soldiers?
I don't think that you use it to buy soldiers. But what if the ability is to "summon" something into existence? That is building.

Potentia is an awesome word :)
But I don't think it suits the building part. So any ability that builds, doesn't fit the big picture. If you don't build. Than my opinion-vote for Potentia.

Is, food, an option? Or is that too generic?

Any way, try this list:
https://www.powerthesaurus.org/mana/synonyms

I hope this helps.

Wed, 08/24/2016 - 07:15

#6

Willem Verheij

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Joined: 06/08/2016

Some possible different names

Some possible different names for it:

-Power.
-Influence.
-Attunement.
-Magic.
-Stamina.
-morale.

Wed, 08/24/2016 - 07:35

#7

TwentyPercent

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Joined: 12/25/2012

How about using the cards in

How about using the cards in your deck as your mana? Or the cards in your hand? Then the more cards you draw or play will reduce your working mana, making the player manage/balance their valuable mana resource and their active cards.

That kind of resource management has always been a favorite of mine, and for a micro-game it's a simple design mechanic but with vast gameplay/strategic depth.

Another option is to use the cards in your graveyard as mana (possibly a one-time use?!?).

In any of these three cases, they either prevent the snow-balling effect or assist those with lots of cards in their "graveyard" (for a lack of the proper term).

Wed, 08/24/2016 - 15:25

#8

questccg

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Joined: 04/16/2011

This game is in a lot of "fluxx"

Yesterday I came up with an interesting premise. Your deck is 12 cards. Your play area allows for 3 support and 4 melee cards. Now each card has a "value" (1-9) and an "operator" (+, - and x).

Round #1: players secretly choose 3 support cards from a hand of 6 cards (randomly chosen from the deck of 12). The rules are pretty simple:

1> Only one "x" operator may be played on your side the table.
2> A maximum of 2 "-" operators may be played on your side the table.

What this does is set up a "mathematical" equation, with 4 values and 3 operators.

Round #2: players reveal their 3 support card (and the operators chosen).

This kind of allows the opponent to try to determine what the equation will look like and how he can interfere with it.

Round #3: players secretly choose 4 melee cards from a hand of 6 cards.

Round #4: players reveal there melee cards one at a time, given each player the ability to use "Active Abilities" (Think spells).

Your goal is to "out-score" your opponent, by having a higher total value than he/she.

#1 (op #1) #2 (op #2) #3 (op #3) #4 = ?

Yeah it's very "mathematical" - but I like that. And it's different, because you are "building" an equation with the goal of having the higher score at the end. I think this gives you a depth of "strategy" while allowing you to "screw over" your opponent.

And then there are cool mathematical outcomes like -(-X) = +X... Which you can try to play around with... or Y x -Z = -X...

The order of operations is determined by the value "1-9" of the card. Higher values get computed first... But you must be careful, because your opponent can mess with your "values" and transform the equation into something else which may score LESS points or even worst negative points!

Wed, 08/24/2016 - 15:31

#9

questccg

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Joined: 04/16/2011

Deck-Building restrictions

Each 12 card deck is comprised of the following:

1> 3 "x" (multiplying) operator cards
2> 4 "-" (subtracting) operator cards
3> 5 "+" (additive) operator cards

For a total of 12 cards.

Update: I realize the real challenge will be "balancing" properly the cards. Since there are many possibilities to how to use the operators and part of it is luck of the draw (from your draw pile/deck), you are forced to try any given scenario/equation with the hopes of knowing which cards you may draw from during a later phase (Melee selection)...

But I really like the idea... Sometime you will get that perfect equation and then your opponent can transform it... changing the outcome of the duel. It's supposed to be a FAST game. Like maybe 5-10 minutes (tops) to play.

Note: Sometimes you may get a shitty hand, like 4x "-" and 2x "x". You still need to formulate the best possible equation using the fact that "-" can become "+" and "x" can still help you score big. So it's a challenge to get to score points and how to transform what you got into something good (that can beat your opponent).

Example: "2" - "9" x "3" - "5"

=-30 points (2 - (9 x 3)) - 5
=-20 points 2 - ((9 x 3) - 5)
= 14 points (2 - 9) x (3 - 5)

Again it all depends on the operator precedence. And that is determined by the "value" of each card...

The ultimate equation would be: (9 + 9) x (9 + 9) = 324! But I don't think it would be possible to build such a deck... That's where the balancing occurs.

Wed, 08/24/2016 - 16:47

#10

X3M

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Joined: 10/28/2013

questccg wrote: Example: "2"

questccg wrote:

Example: "2" - "9" x "3" - "5"

=-30 points (2 - (9 x 3)) - 5
=-20 points 2 - ((9 x 3) - 5)
= 14 points (2 - 9) x (3 - 5)

Why not?
9 x 5 - 2 - 3 = 40 points

How do the players determine the best score?

And how are opponents to intervene with it?

Wed, 08/24/2016 - 16:58

#11

questccg

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Joined: 04/16/2011

X3M wrote:Why not?9 x 5 - 2

X3M wrote:

Why not?
9 x 5 - 2 - 3 = 40 points

How do the players determine the best score?

And how are opponents to intervene with it?

The order of the operators is defined by the "value" of the card. So if I have "x" = 2, "-" = 7 and "-" = 4 and ... the order of how those numbers are calculated is:

9 x ((5 - 2) - 3) = 0 points! Hehehe!!!

Next each "Number" ("9", "5", "2" and "3") are melee cards. They "combat" your opponent melee card based on a RPS-9 (which I need to simplify). For example the "2" battles an opposing card and loses "3" points. Now the "+2" is a "-1"...

So:

9 x ((5 - -1) - 3) = 27 points!... Plus you can use "Active" and "Passive" Abilities to mess with combat. It's very challenging because you are doing two (2) things at the same time:

1> You are trying to build the strongest equation for yourself.
2> You may want to interfere with combat on the outcome of your opponent's equation.

That's what I have got so far...

Wed, 08/24/2016 - 17:03

#12

questccg

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Joined: 04/16/2011

If the values of the operators were flipped...

So if I have "x" = 2, "-" = 4 and "-" = 7... I've change the order of how those numbers are calculated:

9 x (5 - (2 - 3)) = 54 points! Hehehe!!!

That's better than your 40 point example...

Note: there is one basic premise = the lower the melee "values" the lower the score. Except when it comes to negative numbers and "-" operators... So generally speaking if two cards can combat to try to lower the point value of a card - it's best to do so, since the values will be smaller (and usually that means a lower total score...)

Wed, 08/24/2016 - 17:33

#13

questccg

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Joined: 04/16/2011

Back to the OP...

Unfortunately it brings me back to my OP - and not knowing how to *generate* "Mana". It's a Micro Game with a limited card set (12 cards) and maybe some dice.

And it's good for kids, since they can practice their mathematical skills. Good for other gamers where they work on having the best possible equations for their particular match-up/duel.

Yeah, it may seem a little bit "simple". But that's the point. It fundamentally is - but can also prove to be challenging with the cards you get - to build the best possible outcome each time you play.

And there are "Passive" Abilities like "Fear" which prevent the opposing unit from attacking. But you can have another "Active" Ability which allows you to choose if you want to attack the opposing unit or an adjacent one. Things like that...

And if you are playing in a "tournament", each victory matters. It's not like you can 8 out of 10 matches and be happy. You need to win 10 out of 10 to be a winner. That appeals to all the "Spikes" out there! :)

Thu, 08/25/2016 - 13:40

#14

questccg

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Joined: 04/16/2011

Any additional comments?!

@X3M: Any comments about the system and how it works?

Anybody else care to comment about ideas for the term "Mana" or a way of introducing "Mana" to the existing game?!

Thank you.

Thu, 08/25/2016 - 14:38

#15

mcobb83

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Joined: 06/07/2016

mcobb83 wrote: You might name

mcobb83 wrote:

You might name it Potentia. It's a simple enough word. It's Latin (a word that fits well in a medieval theme) and it means power, might, or force.

As for a generation mechanic, since it's a micro game, why not give each player mana/Potentia equal to the turn? So on turn 1, they both have 1 mana. On turn 2, they would have 2. 3 on 3, and so on.

Shared this a while ago. Don't know if you saw it. If you did, don't mind me. If you didn't, well, here it is.

Thu, 08/25/2016 - 20:13

#16

stevebarkeruk

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Joined: 07/26/2008

Why do you need mana?

As far as I can see, you haven't yet described anything indicating what mana would be or do in this game. What is it for? How do players use it? Why do you need it?

Maybe if you could answer those questions, people could better understand what you are asking for. I know what mana is in Magic but you haven't told us why you need it in this game.

The description so far seems to be "draft two sets of cards from your deck, then work out how they affect each other". At what point does mana come into that? Given that it's a microgame maybe you should not be looking at how to add mana into the game at all, but rather how to just leave it out so you're not adding unnecessary components or complexity.

Thu, 08/25/2016 - 20:31

#17

questccg

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Joined: 04/16/2011

Sorry my mistake!

stevebarkeruk wrote:

As far as I can see, you haven't yet described anything indicating what mana would be or do in this game. What is it for? How do players use it? Why do you need it?

"Mana" was used to allow a player to use "Active" Abilities. These abilities can affect the outcome of a battle and even do direct damage.

Like "Firestorm": choose 4 opposing targets, deal +1 damage each.
OR
Like "Magic Missile": -2 Resistance to one unit of your choice.

Having too much "Mana" is bad - because an opponent can do whatever they like. Having none or not enough is bad - because you cannot alter the course of the game...

So I would say "Mana" is a very important component. Before the game was supposed to be an Android Video Game. So "Mana" was supposed to be BOUGHT. Limits were imposed by how much a player wanted to spend playing the game.

But in a physical card game format - I have no idea how "Mana" should be handled... It's not like the game has many rounds (like HearthStone). And my goal would be to put out a "Micro Game" that could use the "Aftermarket" buy-what-you-want type of online store. So each card could be purchased at it's own price and you can buy multiple copies of any card.

Deck-Building is done like in Magic, off-line while you build your 12 Deck of cards. But the format is intended to be shorter games - than say a game like Magic.

Have I provided enough details???

Thu, 08/25/2016 - 21:26

#18

Mark Simulacra

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Joined: 05/21/2015

.

Is mana a collective pool both players draw upon? Because you mention that having too much mana means "an opponent can do whatever they like." If its a personal resource, why does having too much allow your opponent to do whatever they like?

Thu, 08/25/2016 - 23:24

#19

Squinshee

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Joined: 10/17/2012

Remember: resource systems

Remember: resource systems inherently restrict what a player is allowed to do. Is that something you want your players to factor? Is there another way to restrict what players can do without using a resource system?

I know that in my game, it improved drastically when I removed a resource mechanic.

Thu, 08/25/2016 - 23:27

#20

questccg

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Joined: 04/16/2011

Too many abilities

@Mark: Well if you have too much "Mana", you can use ALL the "Active" abilities on the cards in play. Like if you have 2x Wizards, and they each deal -2 Resistance, maybe those 4 points might be 2 "Active" abilities you can trigger.

But if you had like 10 points, you could probably use all "Active" abilities on each and every card.

Helping me think through this maybe it could be a simple rule:

A> Each player has 5 "Mana" points.
B> Every time a player loses a duel, he gains +2 "Mana" points.

Could be something like that... It would encourage more games, like best 2 out of 3 games... IDK just thinking "aloud"! It would need to be balanced... Maybe something simple like that... And "Active" abilities could have a value between 1 and 5 "Mana" points.

Got to think about it some more... But maybe you've help me think through a simple way of managing "Mana" with the whole +2 "Mana" points for the loss.

Fri, 08/26/2016 - 01:46

#21

MKG

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Joined: 08/22/2016

So microtransactions.

Looks like original concept of mana was connected to microtransactions.
When it comes to physical cards, you could use this mechanics and additional abilities as kind of balancing mechanism. If opponent uses mana to do things, i'll get more mana to do my thing. And vice versa.

make one card: one side I has:
north: 7
south: 0
east : 1
west : 6
other side:
north: 5
south: 2
east : 3
west : 4

Whathever side and edge of card is facing you, you have that much mana. And also your opponent has the rest of 7 mana. If you use your mana, you decrease mana in your pool, and increase mana in opponents pool.

When it comes to name, all you cards are magic in theming? You could go with Ether, Cosmic Energy, Energy, depending on exact theming.

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