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Looking for Inspiration: Secrets!

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zmobie
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Joined: 11/19/2008

Hey everyone. I'm currently working on a spy themed game for NaGaDeMon. It's a take on modern espionage and counter-intelligence. I have a good idea how this card driven game is going to work at a very high level, but the nitty-gritty low level mechanics are still kind of up in the air.

I really need to figure out how some other games have handled secrets, intrigue, deception, and betrayal. I would like for the secret agents in my game to be co-opted by your opponent without your knowledge. I'd like the possibility of double agents, honey-pots, and traps to exist in the game. Basically a hidden game-state that may never be revealed. I need some inspiration to figure out how to make this work.

One of my main inspirations so far is the Battlestar Galactica board game. There are plenty of great secret-keeping mechanics in that game that are ripe for the picking, but it still doesn't directly address my main problem. Your agents... cards you control, may have motivations that you don't know about, and take actions that you don't intend. In BSG, you are the actor with the motivation, so the game is keeping that a secret and making progress.

If you have any ideas, or any games I should check out for inspiration please let me know! Thanks! -Andy

MarkKreitler
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Joined: 11/12/2008
Couple Thoughts

Hey Z,

I have a soft spot for games of this sort, so I'm excited to see what you come up with.

Since you haven't supplied much structural detail, it's hard to give targeted ideas, but here are a few random thoughts.

There is a B Movie card game whose name I forget that had an interesting mechanic. Every "actor" card had a list of 3 or so adjectives, like: 'handsome,' 'young,' 'arrogant.' The game's "action" cards affected actors based on these adjectives. For example: "Tricked! Move any 'young,' 'dumb,' or 'oblivious' character to another area."

I can imagine a similar system working in your game. In particular, if you change the adjectives to feel more spy-themed, you should be able to realize your desire to design "hidden motivations."

Example:

Spy: "Blacque Jacque" -- brutal, paranoid, cunning

Action: "Mind Games" -- force any "paranoid" or "fearful" agent to remove a spy on his team.

Another thought that comes to mind: Missions. This is a mechanic I'm working with in one of my own designs. The idea is that players compete to complete "Missions", which are cards dealt to the center of the board. Missions require certain combinations of skill points to complete. Agents have ratings in different skills, so the right team of agents can complete a mission.

Missions have different requirements, among which determine how many Agents on a team must be visible at any time. Players then place their teams next to the Missions they want to capture. Building the teams takes several turns, during which some or all of the Agents may be exposed to other players. Players can use Action cards to shuffle Agents, hide or expose them, or remove them entirely.

Examples:

Mission: False Flag Embassy Attack
Requires: 4 Disguise, 2 Combat, 2 Misinformation
Conditions: If more than 1 of your Agents is visible at the end of your turn, you must discard all but 1 visible agent.

The details are probably wildly wrong for your design, but I hope the core idea is of some use.

Good luck with the design!

Mark

voodoodog
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Joined: 07/02/2012
Neat!

That's a neat mechanic there. Applicable to a wide range of themes and concepts.
That one's going down in the old notebook!

munio
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Joined: 11/12/2012
yep i have a soft spot for

yep i have a soft spot for the traitor mechanic as well
here are some ideas

double sided cards are your friend, place one in front of you without looking at the back side, and voila your opponents know the loyalty of your agent.

another interesting mechanic. Imagine you are gathering intel with some character cards, you send three of those character on a mission and if it succeeds you place one face down "intel" chip on each of the characters that completed the mission, players may look at all the chips on a character if they use an action on it

actions a be
invite: look at all the chips on the character, the player who that character is loyal to me secretly look at the chips of one of the characters in front of you

overhear: look at one of the chips on a character
interogate: ask one questions about any character to any player they must answer truthfully
eliminate: kill the character
honey trap: place one character in front of you, flip one intel chip on that character face up

eerg im to tired to come up with any more ideas let me get back to you

zmobie
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Joined: 11/19/2008
Excellent!

All of these ideas are excellent and give me lots of great ideas to continue with.

Missions - I like this idea of how missions would work. You could have multiple skill requirements and the need to meet all those requirements. An interesting sort of push and pull would be, if you need more than one agent to complete the mission, it increases the chances of the mission not being kept under wraps or being compromised in some way.

Keywords - I am definitely going to use this idea for motives. Basically a character can have different motivations, and card effects can play off those. This is how you compromise enemy agents.

Intel gathering - I like all of these actions, although I'm a little unclear as to how the intel chips work. I think any game like this needs actual intelligence and info represented by some kind of mechanic, and this seems like a good start.

Putting it all together - I think what I'm going to do is, instead of missions, have 'targets'. These targets have a certain number of intelligence points that are available to extract from the target. Each target lists the skill requirements that need to be met in order to extract intel.

Targets can be military installations, individuals, computer servers, etc.

I think agents will be a list of skills, with values, and soem other keywords. Or maybe there is no difference between skills and keywords, either way... I think when an agent goes into play, you take another character card, face down, and place it underneath that agent. A character card that is face down and underneath another character card is no longer a 'character', but his motivations represent the face-up characters 'secret' motivations and loyalties.

You can then have characters who, when face down, do different stuff. For example, a character who has very high skills, but when he is face down on another character, his loyalty is to a completely different faction than yours.

The only other thing I think this needs before I start building some things is how to hide your actions and targets from your opponent when his cards are in play in front of him. I'm thinking about play screens, or a pad of paper where you write down targets.

pilgrim
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Joined: 10/24/2012
Target: Your Opposition

Have you considered that you could use your opponents agents as your targets for assasination, information extraction, even coaxing them into betraying their orginisation?
ie:

you play an agent card by the name of Black Silk. she is a skilled assassin and temptress, so she has the following skills: Covert Kill, Seduction, etc.
because of her shady nature, she has a few personality issues, (her keywords): Cold, Selfish, etc.
your opponent plays a possible target, Jake Fraser: a skilled negotiator and representative of obscura-corp, who also has some personality quirks of his own, namely a bit of a Ladies Man and gambler, who's skills include: fast talk, diplomatic relations, etc.

So, you decide that hes not worth killing outright, and are going to try and extract some information out of him, pitting black silk's "seduction" skill against Jake Fraser's "Ladies Man" keyword.

consider this - you place a decimal value againts skills and keywords, eg. "seduction 3", "Ladies Man 2" - the seduction is greater than its targeted flaw, so Black Silk is able to extract X information.

zmobie
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OK. I think I've got an idea

OK. I think I've got an idea that may work, let me know if you have any ideas that may help me.

1. Any card can be played face down as an 'agent'. This allows you to bluff, and play cards that are not agents on different targets.

2. Any card can be placed at the bottom of any pile of cards. This allows you to play actions secretly on other players cards without knowing what their effects will be.

3. When something happens that would reveal the top card of a pile, one by one, you resolve all the cards below it in order. If the character cannot perform, or be the legal target of an action played underneath him, it doesn't happen.

4. Each player has his own 'intel' markers to represent information he has about a stack of cards. The amount of intel a player has determines whether he can play cards on that stack, how many cards 'from the top' of the pile he can look at.

A lot of emergent mechanics can grow out from these rules, I just don't know if they are spyish enough. I have to build something and playtest it to be sure.

1. You could play an agent face-down, but use cards from your hand to make him perform actions on a target to gain intel. Because you used actions from your hand, that face-down agent could just be some bluffed card!

2. You have 1 intel on an enemy's agent. Your hacker agent uses an action to do his 'freeze bank accounts' action which gives him the money motivation and removes all equipment attached to him and removes one of your opponents intel. You then play a face down bribery card, which allows you to redirect an action he takes when it is revealed. When the enemy agent next performs the action he will be the target of your bribery card, and you'll be able to decide what his action effects.

3. Say your opponent guessed you might be up to such shenanigans and plays a 'false motivation' card underneath your card. When he next performs an action, the character is revealed. One by one, starting at the bottom, cards are resolved. Since false motivation was played first, that means that the bribery combo won't work now because the character no longer has the money motivation.

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