Hello all,
I had a few interesting conversations earlier today that made me think about the realm of 3D games/ miniatures gaming. For those of you who play games with minis, what kind of game-play and/or to what level do you like to play? For example, do you prefer paper maps, or do you prefer to have models of buildings and props etc. to set up your battlefield with? Another question is what kinds of genres do you like?
Thanks for the insight!
-MAR
Oddly enough, no one responded to this topic yet.
I love wargaming.
But most of them are simply little squared on a hexagon map. That is what I am used too. That is how I play.
A&A has miniatures. I love that game as well. But the number of units is displayed with chips. I got something similar for my own wargame.
While I would love to have a good looking terrain and miniatures. The strategy would be mostly lost that I like to see and feel in such a wargame.
So I think I like it flat and easy where it is possible to have a lot going on.
Well, my intention was not to change the subject. Sorry.
If people read it right.
They should read that you are asking what they like.
A wargame with miniatures is a given in your case.
But do they prefer a flat surface or a 3d surface?
That is the question, right?
Just like how you said it. The quick set up for play is what I think, most people like.
Unless you have your terrain in the basement, all set up.
Or, the 3d terrain is a simple placement on a table. A rock here, a building there.
I think that space to store the game, is also a limiting factor for most.
If you are designing a war game. First make sure the rules/mechanics work. Only then see in you can have miniatures and/or 3d terrain.
If your mechanics require 3d terrain like in warhammer, then you have to start from designing some pieces and terrain first.
Thanks for the reply, it verified some of my thoughts on the matter. No, you didn't switch up the subject, I did when I digressed and began talking about a wargame that I was helping develop. You are correct, my question was just wondering what people liked and didn't in regard to 3D terrain, and to what extent. Well, at least thank you for replying :) Space is definitely a big factor with most people, as you point out. Time also.
Thanks
MAR
Feel free to talk about the wargame that you help working on. Every little detail can be discussed.
I'm not a big miniature wargamer myself but I'll try to answer based on the people I know.
In my experience most miniature wargamers play with models and props. Even for their 2D mapping needs they often either use fancy mousepad-type pieces, thick cardboard backed tiles or a handful 3D terrain features (Hills, rivers, etc)
People who buy mini's often are willing to spend on making them look even better. (Besides, Line of Sight Rules often require the 3D effect)
But it's important to note that most that I know also only own a handful of terrain pieces. Maybe 1-2 buildings, a hill, a couple rivers/roads, and a few trees that they can mix and match every game.
That said, there are a few specific areas where 2D maps are commonly used.
First up, BOARD GAMES, where the map itself divides the battlefield into tiles and it's pretty much a requirement. Generally, people prefer thicker cardboard backing on the map, but traditional chit wargamers do reluctantly use paper.
Second, Dungeons and Dragons is an interesting exception. The modern "Tactical movement and combat" design is basically built for playing on a 2D grid and most players use it that way. In these cases, most use the washable battle mats that they can draw on... though there is a small market for tiles that can build a map.
Thanks for your insight. I myself have a few games that require miniatures and a flat 2D map, but often thought that many gamers that are really into miniature wargaming of some kind would probably like some kind of 3D terrain. Is 3D terrain sought after, from your experience, or is it just a convenient luxury if acquired?
Also, in response to the question above, the game that I am helping with is a wargame, but does not require miniatures or 3D terrain- I was just curious about it. I will make a thread about our wargame soon I think, and will let you know. Thanks for the input!
-MAR
I like my games flat, no 3d terrain.
I've never actually played with 3d terrain, but I have enjoyed tons of games without it.
A flat map with printed terrain and tokens for miniatures is enough for me, though I definitely like 3d miniatures.
3d terrain seems like it would just be pointless clutter, unless you're playing a game that implements 3d-ness into its mechanics.
That 3D terrain involves the use of everyday common objects like a Coffee Cup, a Cellular Phone, a Pen, Money (Change)... Where I have seen this is in Jason Greeno's Kung-Fu Micro games. His games use those objects as ways of preventing easy line-of-sight and force players to "go around" objects.
I thought that was clever of him... And his games involve only a few cards too.
You can check out the latest version (2017) on "The Game Crafter" (TGC):
https://www.thegamecrafter.com/games/pocket-kung-fu-2017
Originally they were all individual sets/games. But now it seems like it is one packaged collection.
Nice point, that is a unique way of using terrain. Thanks for pointing it out! One 3D game that I gave a shot was Heroscape. The board/map was built out of 3D puzzle type pieces, and it was pretty cool. The miniatures weren't bad, but the theme and gameplay wasn't my favorite. To me, unless you have an extra room or a bunch of time, a 3D map of sorts is not practical.
Back to my High School years some 30+ odd years ago... We kind of "muddled" around with a game on a sheet of paper. It was sort of real basic in that each player had a "Bazooka man" and you would say either "I am going to SHOOT" or "I am going to MOVE".
If you moved, you would use a pencil and fling it from the TOP (by applying pressure) such that it would create a "line" from the starting point (your Bazooka man) to the next location.
The goal of the game was to "shoot down" your opponent.
Your "Bazooka man" was a circle (man) next to a rectangle (Bazooka). As you moved, you would re-draw the "Bazooka man".
Anyway it was the barest of minimum of a "wargame". But we played it several times ... It was something "we" invented.
Oh yes, I almost forgot "SHOOTING" was the same as moving, but you would just see if the "line" would touch the opposing "Bazooka man" (circle or rectangle)...
Note: I know this is a bit "off-topic" since it's not about 3D terrain. But it's simply to say that we would use a plain sheet of paper and write on it (and play our "duel" game) without any type of 3D terrain. If could have been "hexes" for more advanced idea and use pocket change (or joysticks) -- and yes even "Miniatures" (3D models) if you like.
And you could up the ante, with multiple movement by some troops or multiple waypoints for a missile, etc. Things like that.
I think it's very much in the "spirit" of a "wargame"...
No, not off topic, I appreciate the memory! This is a good game theme, I mean using whatever is around you to become the 3D terrain. Maybe we will play around with that one day, not sure, but it is a good idea. Sounds like you guys had some fun.
No, wargamers love to disagree about that. I am on the other side that prefer to play on a paper map covered with a sheet of pvc/plexi. Makes a much nicer, flatter, surface than any mounted map. As a bonus the game becomes much cheaper to print and ship.
I never had the interest in graphics others do. I went to PC if I wanted that. I had no money or patience for painting that stuff. I let my Mr Rodgers imagination work with what I had. Plastic cases the minis came in often made buildings. Legos, Lincoln logs, whatever. It worked fine.
These days though, everybody appears to want a video game on the table. Don't worry about the rules. You could flip a coin to see who wins,(anything more is "complexity") as long as things look pretty it will do fine.
As far as time frame or genre, you'll see more controversy in politics invade American business. This makes World War Two and the US Civil War toxic. You'll be harassed, have to jump though hoops, get banned from selling etc. What's left of historical wargaming will be punished and censored out of existence in the next 2-4 years.
If you moved, you would use a pencil and fling it from the TOP (by applying pressure) such that it would create a "line" from the starting point (your Bazooka man) to the next location.
The goal of the game was to "shoot down" your opponent.
Your "Bazooka man" was a circle (man) next to a rectangle (Bazooka). As you moved, you would re-draw the "Bazooka man".
Anyway it was the barest of minimum of a "wargame". But we played it several times ... It was something "we" invented.
Oh yes, I almost forgot "SHOOTING" was the same as moving, but you would just see if the "line" would touch the opposing "Bazooka man" (circle or rectangle)...
Note: I know this is a bit "off-topic" since it's not about 3D terrain. But it's simply to say that we would use a plain sheet of paper and write on it (and play our "duel" game) without any type of 3D terrain. If could have been "hexes" for more advanced idea and use pocket change (or joysticks) -- and yes even "Miniatures" (3D models) if you like.
And you could up the ante, with multiple movement by some troops or multiple waypoints for a missile, etc. Things like that.
I think it's very much in the "spirit" of a "wargame"...
Haha, I've played a similar game, except each side had 5 or so X-Wings or Tie Fighters, and the players had to maneuver around asteroids and planets, trying to destroy the other team's ships.
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X3M,
Yes, I did find it strange that no one replied, I mean there has to be many wargamers or miniature themed game players around. I have played A&A, Star Wars Minis, Memoir 44, etc. I like the flat grid map for quick play and set up, but sometimes I think that the terrain and map/ modeling is half the fun for many people, I assumed at least. Because I didn't know, I was wondering if I could get anyone's input on that topic. What is your own wargame? What kind of games do you like? There is one game that we have been playing around with/ developing for a year or so that we really like. As you say, to us, the draw of the game is strategy (and we wanted more complexity than risk or A&A). This wasn't my intent on the topic, but oh well :)
-MAR