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skirmishes vs pitched battles...how to handle the skirmishes

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Thu, 04/13/2017 - 06:17
MarkD1733
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I need help with deciding how to handle skirmishes.

In my game, which is cooperative, there are cards for the available battles in the game. Each card has a set of numbers which serve as the possible numeric conditions to be met by each troop in order to win the battle. Basically, there is a number per troop type and an overall number. As a battle emerges, a specific set of 4 of those numbers is revealed. If they meet/beat the overall number, they win the battle. If they lose any of the individual troop numbers, then they lose a troop from the which numbers they did not meet. On the battle card, there are also "the spoils" (extra resources) which, if they win against each troop type, they can also get. There is another mechanic to try and determine the some or all of the required conditions for the battle.

The combat is done with dice to achieve the numeric conditions. There are 3 sets of dice (one for each troop type) and up to 4 dice per troop type may be rolled per battle, depending on if those troops have moved onto the battle card. Each troop type has their own combat strength.

If players take their troops to fight a battle (because they know the victory conditions for that battle and believe they can win it)...that is a pitched battle. The players know what they are getting into, so which troops and how many they are fighting with are their choices. However, if they don't attack quickly enough, then the game attacks...to drive the game towards conclusion.

When this happens, they have to defend with whatever is there and available without the chance of moving 2 of the advanced troop types. Basically, only available troop in this instance are "minutemen" which are taken from another section of the board and can be allocated to the battle. With the limitation, how do I use the numbers on the card to fairly match against what the players? There is no way for the maximum 4 "minutemen" to meet the overall victory condition. How else can I create an achievable battle with only 4 dice and surprise information?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Mark

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Thu, 04/13/2017 - 12:43
#1
ssm
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My simple way of thinking

My simple way of thinking about it is to greatly simplify the skirmish compared to the pitched battles.
Skirmish is quick & should be. You mention minutemen & that makes me think of the revolution (in US). Most of those battles were skirmishes; hit & run to try to overwhelm at another place.
Maybe a skirmish should only be minutemen and play out in a couple minutes, if you can figure out how.

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Thu, 04/13/2017 - 16:01
#2
let-off studios
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Don't Nerf Skirmishes

I don't recommend you reduce the difficulty of the skirmishes. From what you describe, the reason the players have to deal with a skirmish is because they haven't or were unable to marshal the appropriate forces for one legitimate reason or another. I don't recommend you reward the players of a cooperative game for not working together - which is ultimately what seems to be described here.

What I do recommend is that you ramp up the difficulty of the game is it progresses. Is there a way you can organize your cards so that enemy forces are stronger in later parts of the game when compared to the beginning? This way players may be able to barely scrape by in the skirmishes before they've built their engines/production, and they'll learn that things will only be tougher as time goes on and they will need to either work very hard to develop their own military or work together to succeed.

A couple ways to go about doing this (if you've not done so already):
- Have different decks of encounter cards for different stages of the game: Act 1, Act 2, Act 3, etc. Draw from successive decks after certain game conditions are met: number of turns, milestones reached, etc. Power Grid is an example of how the game changes from one moment to the next, like a specific card being revealed.
- Have low-level target numbers shown on all cards, but depending on the nature of the encounter you would draw a certain number of them per encounter. If you draw more than one, you add the numbers together to determine that encounter's target number. Again, this can be configured to occur after certain milestones or at different stages of the game. If you've played Pandemic or any of the other Leacock games, then you'll understand how this works. There's a single city or location identified on each card, but depending on where the story has advanced, the number of cards drawn is different.

Hopefully this is useful to you. :)

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Thu, 04/13/2017 - 18:27
#3
MarkD1733
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On the right track...

ssm wrote:
My simple way of thinking about it is to greatly simplify the skirmish compared to the pitched battles.
Skirmish is quick & should be. You mention minutemen & that makes me think of the revolution (in US). Most of those battles were skirmishes; hit & run to try to overwhelm at another place.
Maybe a skirmish should only be minutemen and play out in a couple minutes, if you can figure out how.

It is the American Revolution theme. Players can pull the folks making guns, sabers, etc into the battle as Minutemen. Then they're potentially not available for the production later on if they are casualties. The question is how do I manipulate the battle conditions knowing that there's probably no infantry, cavalry or generals to support them (all of which add/manipulate various dice)... using the numbers on the battle cards. As it stands, there would potentially be a single roll of 4 militia dice. Not sure what to do with that.

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Thu, 04/13/2017 - 19:52
#4
BHFuturist
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My quick 2 cents

Given the theme, it sounds like some sort of "hit & run" tactic could be added only when "normal" military forces are not involved. So, if you are trying to "Skirmish" with only Minutemen then it can be a "hit & run" rather than a full on battle.

@BHFuturist

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Fri, 04/14/2017 - 08:59
#5
MarkD1733
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I don't want to nerf the skirmishes

let-off studios wrote:
I don't recommend you reduce the difficulty of the skirmishes. From what you describe, the reason the players have to deal with a skirmish is because they haven't or were unable to marshal the appropriate forces for one legitimate reason or another. I don't recommend you reward the players of a cooperative game for not working together - which is ultimately what seems to be described here.

What I do recommend is that you ramp up the difficulty of the game is it progresses. Is there a way you can organize your cards so that enemy forces are stronger in later parts of the game when compared to the beginning? This way players may be able to barely scrape by in the skirmishes before they've built their engines/production, and they'll learn that things will only be tougher as time goes on and they will need to either work very hard to develop their own military or work together to succeed.

A couple ways to go about doing this (if you've not done so already):
- Have different decks of encounter cards for different stages of the game: Act 1, Act 2, Act 3, etc. Draw from successive decks after certain game conditions are met: number of turns, milestones reached, etc. Power Grid is an example of how the game changes from one moment to the next, like a specific card being revealed.
- Have low-level target numbers shown on all cards, but depending on the nature of the encounter you would draw a certain number of them per encounter. If you draw more than one, you add the numbers together to determine that encounter's target number. Again, this can be configured to occur after certain milestones or at different stages of the game. If you've played Pandemic or any of the other Leacock games, then you'll understand how this works. There's a single city or location identified on each card, but depending on where the story has advanced, the number of cards drawn is different.

Hopefully this is useful to you. :)

It is useful. Thanks!

Okay. So, there are 4 militia (i.e., minutemen) numbers on each card. My initial thought was to simply use the highest of those 4 numbers...typically 12 (max value for militia dice is 3 X 4 dice). Players have to meet or beat the number to win.

What do you think about having 4 dice for the Redcoats (red dice of course) and my battle cards show in each row how many dice you roll for each troop type? This way...all the cards are perfectly balanced...every row is 1, 2, 3, 4 (in some combination). But each battle is different depending on which numbers are revealed. All combats are dice against dice...no more than 4 dice for any troop.

For skirmishes...it's the same combat mechanic...just that it is always all 4 redcoat dice rolling against only the Militia...the number of which will be players' choice, but most likely be 4. The other option is that they break and don't fight...Lose the battle but no casualties (lost troop cubes).

Thoughts?

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Fri, 04/14/2017 - 09:10
#6
MarkD1733
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BHFuturist wrote:Given the

BHFuturist wrote:
Given the theme, it sounds like some sort of "hit & run" tactic could be added only when "normal" military forces are not involved. So, if you are trying to "Skirmish" with only Minutemen then it can be a "hit & run" rather than a full on battle.

@BHFuturist

While that sounds good, I am having trouble abstracting these skirmishes with the same basic battle mechanic that serves for pitched battles. Based on your suggestion, I was thinking maybe the scrimmages soften up the enemy, prior to pitched battles. Some famous battles were skirmishes. Some were won and some were lost. But then again I would like to keep those possibilities within the game's narrative, if possible.

I will post a couple images of the battle cards and dice to help with discussion.

Thanks!

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