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Turn order woes.... please help!

9 replies [Last post]
Fri, 05/10/2013 - 09:47
ChowYunBrent
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Joined: 07/11/2012

I’ve been stumped as to an elegant solution for a problem for quite some time now, and was hoping some of you geniuses (?) would be able to help. It involves the turn order mechanic in a game I have been working on. Allow me to elucidate.

In the game, each round involves 4 seasons. Each season is one turn, where each player takes an action. In the winter season players bid for the season they want to start first in. This is important as going first in a season allows you to take the action you want and also block other people, its standard worker placement fare. You also gain a unique bonus for that season

Turn order is also determined by the seasons, and the order flows in reverse, so, in a 4 player game for example, where player A goes first in Spring, B in Summer, C in Autumn and D in Winter play order would go like this…

Spring turn – A, D, C, B
Summer turn – B, A, D, C
Autumn turn - C, B, A, D
Winter turn - D, C, B, A

This is all very well in a 4 player game. However, I cannot make this work for a three player game! There is always a gap in one season where a player is missing. Who therefore goes first in this season? It is too great a benefit to give a player 2 seasons in which they go first. However, this seems to be the only solution I can see?

Can anyone help? Sorry for the long confusing post….

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Fri, 05/10/2013 - 10:38
#1
Orangebeard
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Joined: 10/13/2011
Balancing?

Could the "weakest" player be given the first turn in the 4th round to help them stay competitive?

Could one of the Seasons be a "harvest" season where no player is first and everyone collects resources or something at the same time?

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Fri, 05/10/2013 - 12:03
#2
mxuereb
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Joined: 01/31/2009
Dummy Player

Could there be a dummy 4th player that places a worker given a simple set of rules, much like the Robots in Powergrid or the dummy players selection is determined by the player last in turn order.

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Fri, 05/10/2013 - 12:40
#3
ChowYunBrent
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Joined: 07/11/2012
mxuereb wrote:Could there be

mxuereb wrote:
Could there be a dummy 4th player that places a worker given a simple set of rules, much like the Robots in Powergrid or the dummy players selection is determined by the player last in turn order.

Its a nice idea but the of rules of behaviour would over complicate the game i fear.

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Fri, 05/10/2013 - 13:52
#4
MikeyNg
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Joined: 07/12/2012
Diminishing or Expanding Returns

Can you make it so that the unpicked season is just plain not as good for the player going first? Take out the unique bonus and somehow make it more difficult to block other people.

An alternative might be to simply skip that season, but if someone picks it the next time, the bonus is increased. This way, there's eventually an incentive to pick that fourth season, and wind up skipping a different season.

You would have to pull your bidding session out of winter, just in case winter gets skipped, though.

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Sat, 05/11/2013 - 09:06
#5
jasongreeno
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Joined: 07/31/2008
Seasonal Disorder

Could the unclaimed spaces on your board have a negative effect which is applied to the player in position that follows? So if there is no meeple covering the space players are adversely affected by it?

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Sun, 05/12/2013 - 07:47
#6
ChowYunBrent
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Joined: 07/11/2012
MikeyNg wrote:An alternative

MikeyNg wrote:
An alternative might be to simply skip that season, but if someone picks it the next time, the bonus is increased. This way, there's eventually an incentive to pick that fourth season, and wind up skipping a different season.

Yeah this seems like a simple solution, however the game has tightly balanced zero-sum resource distribution which would be entirely scuppered if a season were to be missed entirely. It also would not work thematically. A similar solution to yours is if players are forbidden from choosing the winter bonus in a 3 player game. However even this doesnt sit well with me as it takes something away from the game...

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Sun, 05/12/2013 - 09:29
#7
Stormyknight1976
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Joined: 04/08/2012
Winter season split for the 3 to 4 months bidding mechanic

Can you split the winter months for bidding game mechanic? Players may bid for parts of the season they choose to grow crop or wait for harvest or use the season to work on equipment or save up money for the next year produce? 3 months for 3 players of winter season or 4 months for 4 players depending on the weather pattern simulating real life conditions?

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Sun, 05/12/2013 - 09:38
#8
Stormyknight1976
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Joined: 04/08/2012
Added ideas or suggestions

During game play players can opt to change or bid for the first, middle or last part of the winter months to see if more money wages are being spent, lost or raises or other factors are hidden by the other players knowledge to seek a strategy through out the next harvest?

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Sun, 05/12/2013 - 10:26
#9
Messeya
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Joined: 01/13/2009
If I'm to understand

If I'm to understand correctly, turn order matters because earlier players have more options of actions that can be performed.

So, why not, for a three player game, have the player who would play third for the odd season choose one action that no player can perform (including themselves) before anyone takes an action?

Turn Order: (lower case = choose an action to eliminate, but don't perform it)

Spring turn – A, B, C
Summer turn – C, A, B
Autumn turn - B, C, A
Winter turn - c, A, B, C

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