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Turn System, Morale System, and More!

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Chrisrawr
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Joined: 07/23/2012

Hello! I'm working on a turn/round system for 2-6 players that keeps each player in the game fairly often, and morale system for a game with a rather disparate array of how certain creatures react when their morale is broken. The game is going to be mostly used as a war game, but I'm hoping to make the system diverse enough for other things should players choose to adapt it (what comes to mind immediately is something like Railroad Tycoon).

The turn/round system is fairly simple, as it's based on a solid principle (Phases and Active Players). My only worries for it were getting bogged down in the resolution phase - but that turned out to be a non-issue, as with a simple change it only affects one or two small things, and really amounts to "a player rolls one or two dice just before the next player starts".

Players roll off on 2D6's to see who goes first, (This can be either at the beginning of the game, or at the start of each round in the beginning phase, depending on who has the fastest characters available) and the winner of the roll-off gets to pick who goes first (himself for immediate play, or another if they want to sort of play the down-wind).

Then, in the beginning phase, players bring in resources from off-board if they have any, apply any blessings or curses if they have them, and attempt to regroup any of their units that have broken morale (units can perform other actions, but this is the main schtick of the beginning phase).

The other phases (the tactical and Combat phases) provide similarly name-appropriate actions, such as shooting and moving and leading a charge - all that fancy warfare stuff - and then the Resolution Phase is something that was inspired much more by M:tG than wargaming.

The Resolution Phase happens between each activation - when the active player passes off, anyone whose assets changed during that players' activation goes ahead and resolves whatever morale (or other) effects have been applied to his unit. This is intended to keep the table clear of casualties and to keep players' units from acting in a phase where they should be fleeing in terror, or charging in rage.[/spoiler]

The real problem I've been having has been implementing a proper morale system; On the one side, I have wargamers from historical wargaming wanting heavy suppression systems, which would greatly favour players who like fielding lots of small units (who can thereby simply suppress everyone else and take over). On the other side, I have players who dislike any form of morale, preferring to have brave and fearless heroes who stride through gunfire and carnage without flinching.

I decided to look to tropes for a nice, round variety of what kind of morales to include, and came up with the following system: Each unit has a grade of morale, from cowardly, average, good, excellent, and Fearless. (C,A,G,E,F). This determines how easily a unit will FAIL a morale test, which is simple enough. But then there's also the issue of the disparity between creatures - You don't expect a Soldier to break morale in the same way as a Space Bug does - The Soldier will run towards friendly troops or a supply line, or find a bunker to dig-in. A Space Bug will charge the enemy lines, or simply burrow where it is and hibernate. So then I had to devise modifiers;

Normal (what you'd expect humans to do), Heroic (For those shining paladins of light), Predatory (for the space bugs, and other creatures that you'd expect to get all in a tizzy), Craven (they'll run away, but if you stop chasing them they'll stab you in the back), and Robotic (Pretty much just shuts down).

The problem is - I don't have an actual mechanic for it. Should I do it like Warhammer, where a value is compared to 2D6? Or like FoW where it's on a single D6? Should I introduce other dice sizes, and use a set "Morale!" value, with each better grade of Morale getting a bigger die to roll against it?

tl;dr - Does anyone have experience in dealing with variable morale penalties (and how to apply them) in a system where groups of characters will be taking a range of damages? The basic idea is that I'd like small amounts of damage or casualties to affect groups less, while larger amounts will affect them more and more.

Sorry again for the not-entirely-on-topic questions and post! I'll probably be expanding this post to gain feedback on the activation and actions system I'm hoping to use if I can get past these initial humps. I don't really have any worries about the game becoming 'too complex' as the player base is mostly into games with mechanical depths to plumb (mtg players and such), but I would like to make it feel somewhat warm and elegant, in comparison to the cold, sharp mechanics of mtg's "Comp Rules."

Thanks for reading if you got through that!

Chrisrawr
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The Damage System is somewhat

The Damage System is somewhat inspired by Heroes of Might and Magic, and somewhat by Warhammer - though it's far more reliable, and can even be done without dice if players want. The attacking player rolls a D6 for each 'attack', and depending on the target's ranged or close combat Defense, that attack will only hit on a certain result (usually 3 or 4, but in rare cases 2/5, and in extreme cases, automatically hits, hits on a 6+, or can't hit at all). Each attack profile has a certain damage listed, and all of the damage from attacks at the same Armor Penetration value is added together. So, if a unit with 3 big guns and 3 small guns shoots at a target they hit automatically (say, the broad side of a barn), you would add up the damage from the big guns and the damage from the little guns separately.

Afterward, the part inspired by HoMM, is the 20-Tic; damage is broken into chunks of 20, and compared to Armour - effectively making armour penetration and armour into direct 5% modifiers for the damage. Heavily armoured vehicles and knight-tropes will be practically immune to weapons like small guns (though 1 damage for each 20-Tic is guaranteed, to speed gameplay), while big guns will have their effectiveness reduced against lightly armoured targets, as Armour normally can't go below 0.

The damage that goes through this system is subtracted from the units' durability (Basically a Health buffer) and when durability reaches 0, that unit loses 1 Health (humans have only 1 health!) Of course, units with 0 health die.

To add to this, units can be composed of multiple parts, like an infantry platoon or a swarm of bugs - similar to warhammer and HoMM. So, as the unit loses wounds, its effectiveness goes down.

It's... not as clunky as it looks. Dividing into 20-Tics is fast, and comparing Armour to AP is effortless. Most of the damages are in multiples of 5, as is durability, so what you end up with is a system that takes numbers like 345 (17 tics, we ignore the 5 unless AP+Dmg>Arm, as it will otherwise be negated) and tells you how much actual damage you take from 35% of that (119, into a durability of 5, is 23 dead humans and 1 lucky survivor!) in a couple simple steps.

When we get into models, these are mostly just representations of your force. They can be lego men, wargame miniatures, small toys... as long as units are roughly composed of models the same size, or even cut-out standup tokens, there should be no problems.

Each Model has its own Statistics profile, made up of 11 Stats. The easiest way to relate to these Statistics is by looking at those of a human – More specifically, a Guard.

Name: Guard
Mv:5 Cs:5 St:5 At:1 Rs:5 Ev:5 Ag:5 Du:5 Hp:1 Ar:5 Mr:A/N

The Guard represents a human after a strict training regime – he is strong, fast, and tough. He obeys orders. Further explaining these Statistics, the next few paragraphs will compare a Human to the various creatures and races present in WARGAME

MOVEMENT (Mv):When determining how far a creature can move in general, the Movement Statistic is consulted. The higher the Movement, the faster a creature or vehicle is. A Guard has Mv 5, meaning he can Move up to 5” (The game can easily be modified to Tiles if players want to use a grid with small tokens instead of models). Something more faster, like a Horse, might have Mv 8, allowing it to rapidly out-pace and out-maneuver our ground-pounder. Different forms of movement, such as Flying or Teleporting, will be described in the Movement section.

COMBAT SKILL (Cs): Combat Skill defines how skilled and vicious a warrior is with his weapons in close combat. The higher the score, the more likely the warrior will land blows on an opponent in close combat – and the more likely it is to dodge! Our Guard has Cs 5, a product of constant practice and drilling, while a Barbarian with decades of battle and training behind him will have WS 8!

STRENGTH (St): Strength shows how physically strong a creature is. St is mostly used for special rolls, such as escaping traps or moving objectives. For some creatures, St even tells us how hard they can hit in close combat. Guards have St 5, which, while not worthy of any awards, will let them escape a wrecked vehicle or wedge an axe into a foe!

ATTACKS (At): In the short amount of time each Close Combat Phase represents, most Guards only have time to let off a desperate chop or stab with whatever's at hand, or perhaps they're able to fire a couple shots with their pistols, or stuff a grenade down something's throat. The Attack value is how many attacks a creature makes in Close Combat.

RANGED SKILL (Rs): Ranged Skill shows how accurate a creature is with Ranged Attacks, such as bows, guns, or rockets. The higher this score is, the easier a creature finds it is to hit its target. The training provided to Guards with their Rifles grants Rs 5 – a deadly Elven Archer has much more of its training focused on accuracy, and much sharper eyesight – and so has BS 10.

EVASION (Ev): Evasion dictates the ability of a creature to avoid detection on the Battlefield – and their ability to dodge heavy zones of gunfire, incoming mortars, and other hazards from afar. Guards, with Ev 5, have a fair chance at dodging gunfire – especially once they've hit the dirt! However, Wraiths move throughout the Battlefield as dancers, drifting insubstantially through gunfire and flame with their obscene Ev 10.

AGILITY (Ag): A Model's Agility tells us both how agile and alert it is, and how quickly it reacts in the heat of battle. A Guard's AG 5 lets him be wary of many foes, at least enough to chuck a grenade and duck before a horde of Wolves (with I 8) are upon him! Ag dictates the order that Units are activated in, and the order Attacks are resolved at.

DURABILITY (Du): A creature's Durability tells us how much direct damage it can take before being injured. It's a combination of thick hide, stubborn willpower, and combat high – whether from adrenaline, or fouler substances. A Guard's Du 5 makes them great at protecting their Sergeant when present in numbers, as there's a lot of flesh to soak up any stray bullets that might happen his way! A Battle Tank might have Du 30, simply absorbing and ignoring most damage!

HEALTH POINTS (Hp): Simply put, when a creature runs out of Hp, it becomes a casualty. This doesn't always mean it's dead! It simply has no more fight left to give, and is removed from the Battlefield to reduce clutter. Some creatures, like Minotaurs, fight better when they've lost a number of Hp, their blood and pain spurring them onward – but our poor Guards have only 1 Hp to give.

MORALE (Mr): A Model's Morale shows us how well trained and resolute it is. The most complex Statistic, Mr has many modifiers that will alter how your Models and Units interact with the variety of situations to be found on the Battlefield. Following the trend, a Guard's Mr of A/N means he has an Average Morale, and reacts Normally when his Morale breaks. A feral Savage might have a Mr of F/P, which means he's Fearless, and breaking his Morale will only result in causing him to become even more Predatory!

ARMOUR (Ar): The best defense is to not be in the way of whatever's coming to kill you, but failing that, a sturdy suit of Full-Plate will do just fine! Unfortunately, Guards are equipped only with Leather Vests, and sent directly to the front line to protect the cavalry. Their Ar 5 means that only a small portion of Incoming Damage will be blocked before it rips into them – the mighty Ar 18 of a Knight Errant will block almost all incoming damage!

ZERO-LEVEL STATISTICS: Some models will have 0 for a Statistic; this means different things for different Statistics, and will be discussed later. Having 0 is different from having '-' for Statistics; a dash indicates that that Statistic is simply not used, such as Cs for a Bunker, or Mv for an outpost.

BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER: The end product of a Model's Statistics is its Unit Profile. The Unit Profile lists how big that Unit can be, what types of Models it can be built with, or upgraded into, and what Wargears, Special Rules, and Unit Types it contains. Sample Profiles can be found later on when we discuss building your Army.

Evil ColSanders
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Too close to warhammer.

Simple as that. Sure, some title have been changed but mean the same thing. Warhammer's mechanics (IMHO) are outdated,flawed, and offer no real strategy. I think the mere act of changing the dice you roll (to a 10-sided die most likely) will improve the game. 6 sides doesn't offer enough variation. Rolling 4+ as compared to 5+? That's 50% vs 33%.

Get rid of Agility. Initiative will bottleneck army creation into "Why would I take this when I don't attack first?". I have in my mind, a time when I took 2 full squads of Tau Firewarriors against 6 regular orks. I lost nearly all of them. Their initiative allowed them attack first even if I'm the one initiating the attack. Every other game is "It's my turn. I attack, you defend". A simple Ability could change it up. Buying Abilities (wargear) which give you actual abilities (and not just modifiers to AP, STR, or To Hit) would be AMAZING. Just a thought.

Sorry if you're a big fan of Warhammer. I've played it for a long time and those are my feelings on it.

--Morale--
You might want to make morale a "number of successes" with modifiers.

Your squad has a morale of 6 which means they get 6 d6 (assuming you use d6s).
However many troops died is the number of successes you need.
They're regular grunts. 50-50 shot of breaking. 4+ is a success.
If the morale test was from close combat, you need 5+ for a success.

Chrisrawr
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Joined: 07/23/2012
My comments in bold tags, as

My comments in bold tags, as there is no actual bold (owait found 'strong' let's try that).:D

Evil ColSanders wrote:
Simple as that. Sure, some title have been changed but mean the same thing. Warhammer's mechanics (IMHO) are outdated,flawed, and offer no real strategy.

Which mechanics are you referring to in general? They do a lot of things right, in my opinion, like having some of the most detailed movement rules and pile-in mechanics (there are a few glitches involving Initiative and Timing, but I've solved those). I know a lot of what 40K does is silly, and I'm not going near those parts; all I've done is taken the unit 'base' - how it interacts with the game is not going to be wholly familiar to 40K players.

I think the mere act of changing the dice you roll (to a 10-sided die most likely) will improve the game. 6 sides doesn't offer enough variation. Rolling 4+ as compared to 5+? That's 50% vs 33%.

I really have removed a lot of the power of the D6 - most of the time It'll be a 3+ or 4+ roll. There'll be very little needing 2+, 5+, or 6+, but those that DO require it will actually have you feeling like "Okay, yeah, a trained soldier is going to have a hard time hitting this."

But I agree overall - if I can find a cheap way to get 30 or 40 D10's, (Our store sells awesome blocks of 100 D6's for 15 bucks) I'll definitely be moving over to them; Right now, unfortunately, the option is "no dice" or "D6's", and I've tried my best to minimize the effect that a few poor rolls will have on the game.

Get rid of Agility. Initiative will bottleneck army creation into "Why would I take this when I don't attack first?". I have in my mind, a time when I took 2 full squads of Tau Firewarriors against 6 regular orks. I lost nearly all of them. Their initiative allowed them attack first even if I'm the one initiating the attack.

Oh ouch, Yeah that's uh... That's like throwing grease at fire, not the best example to defend your point here. Tau Fire Warriors are SUPPOSED to die to Orks in close combat, it's one of those cinematic things that unit stats allow to happen; they simply don't have it in them. The thing is, not every army will have a high Agility character or Unit to throw around, and those that do are often fragile or expensive. There's a premium for winning Initiative. Also note that, the highest Agi doesn't allow a player to go more than once - each Player goes once, then passes off to the next player - who activates HIS highest initiative unit, or attempts to activate another unit with a simple test.

Every other game is "It's my turn. I attack, you defend". A simple Ability could change it up. Buying Abilities (wargear) which give you actual abilities (and not just modifiers to AP, STR, or To Hit) would be AMAZING. Just a thought.

Not entirely true, but WARGAME's version of "defense" is Armour; there are also some actions (such as Overwatch or Bracing or Withdrawing) that might allow you to negate your opponent's attack entirely, if you've placed yourself cleverly.

Abilities such as what? I'm including many modifiers to close combat - Morale will be a large factor, as will effects such as M:tG's Double Strike or Battle Cry. There aren't too many effects you can apply when looking at a damage system full of models that are essentially 1-hp; most of the modifiers you might be thinking of (lower morale, lower agility or combat skill, lower movement, etc) are going to be included in the Morale system.

I'm all for adding new effects to attacks - the Strikedown ability from 6th edition is one I enjoy immensely (Units hit by a strikedown attack suffer an effect similar to being knocked prone in D&D).

Sorry if you're a big fan of Warhammer. I've played it for a long time and those are my feelings on it.

No problems at all, I'm well aware of warhammer's shortcomings - it's one of the main reasons I want to make a game that doesn't have them! Unfortunately, I don't feel that a solid Combat Timing mechanism is one of them; As a Tau player myself, I can safely say that Shas'la fight Orks with their Pulse Rifles, and allow Kroot to fight Orks with their Barbarism. I'm not implying that you're a poor player or that you didn't understand the rules or fluff very well, but there's a very strong history of Tau getting murderized by Orks in close combat, and it would've been much like playing a game of Monopoly to the end if you'd managed to kill those Orks - it happens, but it's exceptional. And also practically against the rules.

--Morale--
You might want to make morale a "number of successes" with modifiers.

Your squad has a morale of 6 which means they get 6 d6 (assuming you use d6s).
However many troops died is the number of successes you need.
They're regular grunts. 50-50 shot of breaking. 4+ is a success.
If the morale test was from close combat, you need 5+ for a success.

That sounds fairly flexible, and there could be modifiers for total damage and such; It really amounts to a Statistics Test (as detailed above under Characteristics Test cuz I didn't change the name in the iteration posted here) - Roll 6D6 Target Score 24, 30, etc; Would be a bit easier to apply modifiers for that - the hard part would be deciding just how "damaged" a unit's morale would be - failure by every X amount applies X Suppression? Could work fairly handily, would be easy to resolve... I do like this!

Another suggestion that was brought up was, when a Unit damages another unit, the attacking unit gets to roll suppression - They roll 3D6 with a Modifier based on the Damage they did, against a Value dictated by Target's Morale Grade (so, a Good Morale Grade would have a target of 9, and every 4 past 9 would apply a suppression counter). The Firing Player then spends Suppression Counters, or Suppression Counters then compare to a chart (unsure how to swing the former, but it would allow players to better tailor their shooting to their needs, and feel like they're actually shooting suppressive fire).

It's a bit of a switch around - instead of punishing the already damaged player for rolling poorly, you reward a triumphant player for rolling well - while still allowing the damaged player satisfaction if he rolls low. On the other hand, you remove the damaged player the satisfaction of 'rallying' his troops in the middle of a firefight.

Regardless, Units which Rally attempt to remove suppression each beginning phase, usually a simple test, but if (because of suppression modifiers) they're unable to remove ANY suppression, they become Morale Broken, and suffer a scripted effect dictated by their Morale Type (such as running for normal morale types, or shutting down/overheating for robotic morale types).

Compared to the current, binary "I run or I'm perfectly fine" system, either would be an improvement.

I think that your grievances with 40K might come from having played one of the underdog armies when it comes to close combat; initiative steps are a pretty involved and dynamic way of handling faster creatures being... faster.

I'd rather have Initiative Steps than something like M:tG's First Strike / Normal Strike binary system, where everyone is essentially "Initiative 2 or initiative 1". I'd also rather avoid HoMM's system where the "Attacking" creature always goes first, and the "Defending" creature can only respond with whatever's left - even if it's a faster, smarter creature! I also also don't want to go back to King's Quest where both stacks attacked at full strength before both stacks took casualties, as that again runs into the "But how are you getting the jump on my sprites with your ogres? THEY FLY AND ARE FAST!"

Evil ColSanders
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I'm glad you found at least

I'm glad you found at least something helpful.

It was one of the first games I played against my friend when I first got into it. Initiative forced me to make an all shooty army. What if I want some grunts to charge in? Kroot are substandard.. and my only choice. In that way, it bottlenecks my army building. I HAVE to build a certain way or it's curtains.

"Also note that, the highest Agi doesn't allow a player to go more than once - each Player goes once, then passes off to the next player - who activates HIS highest initiative unit, or attempts to activate another unit with a simple test."
Is this for YOUR game? If it is, I like the idea.

Chessex has fairly inexpensive groups of 10 d10 for about 3 bucks.

Chrisrawr
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Joined: 07/23/2012
Yep, that's the initiative

Yep, that's the initiative system; you might appreciate how Warhammer has changed, even if you're not interested in coming back to it; players can take "allies", which are essentially a detachment of units from OTHER factions that are friendly towards yours - your Tau could've enlisted the help of some Eldar Striking Scorpions to really show those Orks who's green and mean :D

Edit: THE BEGINNING PHASE: The first thing Players do each Beginning Phase is Initiative -

Initiative: Players determine who goes first each Game Turn with a Roll-Off for Initiative. Players each get a bonus to this Roll-Off equal to the highest Ag value amongst their Units. The winner of this Roll-Off must choose which Player is the first Active Player this Game Turn.

Once the Active Player is determined, the Beginning Phase provides the following Actions to them (certain Special Rules and Unit Types will grant other Actions during the Beginning Phase, even to other Players!)

Alliances are another really great rule I'll be including, though I'll be going about it more like infinity or warmahordes do, with units that are mercenaries.

There's a huge number of things I could list about 40K that I don't like, or that are harming the game's ability to be fun - but I don't think, at it's core, its combat system is one of them. It can use some love and attention, it can use some flexibility and some new toys, but what it comes down to is that it's a great way of representing the large, brawling melees of the setting - and the setting is sufficiently cinematic to pull this off!

I'll definitely be checking chessex out for my gaming group; What I might simply do is add shifting tables for each DX - so that you can play it with whatever's at hand, or whatever you feel most comfortable with; I know a lot of people simply enjoy rolling 30 or 40 D6's at once as part of the appeal of the game.

Chrisrawr
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Finishing up Close Combat

Finishing up Close Combat Actions, one that stood out as a great example for the amount of terms it holds -

OVERWATCH
Phase: Combat Members: Each Model
Restrictions: A Unit may declare Overwatch only when another Unit Declares a Charge against it

Details: After all Charges are Declared, but before Waiting Units are Activated, the Unit may Shoot at any single Unit that is Charging it

The Evasion of the Unit being Shot is increased by that Unit's Combat Skill against this Shooting, and the Firing Unit uses its Weapon's Close-Range Modifiers for this Shooting, regardless of the Range to the Target Unit

A Unit that performs Overwatch against a Charging Unit only gains Defensive Bonuses, like from Bracing or Wargear, against the Unit it Shoots for this Phase

The Action is called Overwatch; it's used in the Close Combat Phase, and Each Model in the Unit has a choice of performing it or not. They can only Overwatch when another Unit Declares a Charge against it (Capitolization implies it's an Action, or Game Term - these are bolded in the document as well for emphasis).

The Details of the Action tell us that it makes the Unit we choose to use it against harder to Shoot - it tells us how it does this, and it also tells us that we use a Specific Case of Rules for a Weapon, overriding the General Rules (Specific Trumps General).

It then tells us that using Overwatch leaves the Unit vulnerable to other Attackers - again by removing defenses with Specific Trumps General (Because a unit that uses overwatch getting charged is more specific than a unit getting charged!).

To recap, the action provides details on how and when it's used, on who uses it, an when it cant be used, and what precisely it does in game terms.

Each Action uses pre-defined Terms, or bases its own terms on pre-defined actions, building off of what's already been presented to players. Each of the Actions has its own terms described in the space following the Phase Description, and all of those Terms pull their rules from a specific ruleset (such as the section describing movement, or describing shooting, which they'll hyperlink to in the pdf) - letting players quickly reference and reinforce game knowledge.

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