Bible Themed Strategy Game

Thu, 01/14/2016 - 15:15

#1

radioactivemouse

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Joined: 07/08/2013

Not looking to debate

I'm all for creating wholesome "christian" games, but this does beg the question:

"Does a game have to be about the Bible to express Christian views?"

Yes, I agree, for the most part Bible-based games are, for lack of a better term, crap. Part of it is that the people making these games are NOT game designers and part of it is that...well they're NOT game designers. Nah, I kid, I think the second reason is that they lack the time and money to actually finish a solid product.

I'm also not a fan of in-your-face Christianity. It's like any group that has strong proponents...gays, blacks, all the hot button groups, it's off-putting when it's shoved down your throat. I'm not in any way opposed to these people, but if you're coming in my face and saying, "LOOK THIS IS A (hot button topic) GAME!", I'm generally turned off as are many other people.

Which brings me to your game. I'm not in any way opposed to you making a Bible-based game, though I think there's a lot of good material you can draw from. The thing that really needs to draw the audience in is deep gameplay.

Here's my analysis of the game from my standpoint. The premise is light...too light even. Time travel concept is cool. Taking pictures...meh. That's not really exciting. If I were playing, I'd be saying, "if I'm going back in time, I want to (try to change it, not take pictures". To me your concept isn't strong.

If I were to make a Bible-based game, I'd take one of the more...juicier parts of the Bible and try and create a solid game around that...what if you were King David's "mighty men" commanded to take out a specific target? What if it was a dexterity game about balancing animals on Noah's Ark? There are some games out there that are breaking that mold. There's one game about Nehemiah, there's another about the book of Acts and trying to spread the gospel to different areas and facing challenges. It can be done.

To me, a Christian shows their life by what they "do". If a Christian makes a great game, regardless of whether it's a Bible game or not, then they are respected by the community and people look up to that person. If you create a crappy game with a Bible theme slapped on, it comes across as trying to cash-in on your religion and you're trying to shove religion on people's faces.

What I'm saying is make a great GAME. Use an exciting theme/subject. Find something that people will WANT to do in the Bible...going back in time to take pictures isn't really something you'd do if you had a TIME MACHINE. What would people in that time think if they saw a camera? They'd freak out! They'd think you were God! Then your game becomes weird.

Again, like my subject says, I'm not looking to debate religion, I just think that the gameplay and theme should shine and unfortunately, I don't see that in your game. I'm sorry.

Thu, 01/14/2016 - 15:18

#2

Soulfinger

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Joined: 01/06/2015

I have three innate

I have three innate complaints about the majority of Christian products. The first is that many trivialize God's name and holy Scripture. You have things like Scriptural verses on coffee mugs or Testamints, which are mints with crosses on them packaged with Biblical verses. Apparently, Jesus threw the merchants out of the temple, who then set up shop across the street, selling "What Would Jesus Do?" shirts.

The second is how branded products misrepresent our faith to the outside world. On one hand, they are handy hallmarks of the cultural Christian, so that from an ecumenical perspective I can anticipate being rudely cut off in traffic by the guy with the WWJD bumper sticker. On the other hand, people outside the faith can't appreciate the irony and see only the blatant hypocrisy, ascribing it to Christianity in general.

My third issue is that the bulk of "Christian" products are manufactured in China. Christian goods shouldn't be symptomatic of our country outsourcing its poverty. The bags of foam craft project crosses sold at Hobby Lobby should be illustrated in the dictionary under "Irony."

I had this discussion recently with a friend about how evangelical businesses have done so much to tarnish Christianity's image, while ideas like Greenleaf's concept of servant leadership have been more subversive in how Christian ideology came to be applied in a secular fashion with far-reaching, tangible benefit. I've been thinking a lot of how to apply this sort of subtlety and nuance to game design.

Personally, I see the notion of time traveling photographers as unsettling. I imagine a tourist shotgunning beer and doing selfies at Golgotha. I don't see the theme of people racing to capture the burning bush on film, as though it were the Grand Canyon, as being particularly reverent . . . or strategic. The rules state that the photographers are competing for personal fame, which isn't a particularly Christian theme. I'd say that if you want to make it appealing to non-Christians then drop the Biblical theme and make it about time traveling photography throughout all of history. You are, after all, better off making a game for a general audience than making something unintentionally irreverent. Then again, none of these concerns really apply to cultural Christians, so if you can imagine your game sold in the gift shop of Hobby Lobby's new Bible Museum or the Creation Museum then go for it.

Thu, 01/14/2016 - 15:47

#3

harmon89

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Joined: 01/13/2016

I agree mostly

I agree with pretty much everything you say. I'm not really set on the whole photography thing, though it interests me personally since I'm a photographer. I did think about adding a component to the game where you have to complete your missions without being seen.

I do want to keep the big picture aspect to the game. I like the having fun and at the same time learning a thing or two about the geography of the land and some of the biblical events without realizing it.

The main strategy in the game involve knowing which cards to choose and which ones to leave. An event card could be particularly valuable to you but you'd have to travel across the whole country to play that event card. Or you could take a card because you know it is valuable to another player. Should you take it? The strategy is in many ways along the lines of Ticket To Ride, which is the kind of gameplay I'm sort of shooting for. Nothing too deep, but enough there for everyone.

Any thoughts of how I could still incorporate the big picture of the Bible and the map of Israel while not being unintentionally irreverent?

Thu, 01/14/2016 - 15:48

#4

Soulfinger

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Joined: 01/06/2015

radioactivemouse wrote:Yes, I

radioactivemouse wrote:

Yes, I agree, for the most part Bible-based games are, for lack of a better term, crap. Part of it is that the people making these games are NOT game designers and part of it is that...well they're NOT game designers. Nah, I kid, I think the second reason is that they lack the time and money to actually finish a solid product.

It's also that, in many cases, the games are agenda-based. The designers aren't prioritizing fun, so much as proselytizing and preaching to the choir. Somehow, people make these games thinking that they will be a profound experience. Enthusiasm often trumps wisdom. Here's a really good link:

http://kotaku.com/5821259/christian-game-developers-want-to-leave-bad-ga...

radioactivemouse wrote:

I'm also not a fan of in-your-face Christianity . . . I'm not in any way opposed to these people, but if you're coming in my face and saying, "LOOK THIS IS A (hot button topic) GAME!", I'm generally turned off as are many other people.

Ugh. As a Christian, I'm certainly opposed to those people. Evangelical cultural Christians, the prosperity preachers and Christian Conservatives who use God's word out-of-context to justify their politics, are the mustachioed villains of the Abrahamic faiths.

radioactivemouse wrote:

What if it was a dexterity game about balancing animals on Noah's Ark? There are some games out there that are breaking that mold. There's one game about Nehemiah, there's another about the book of Acts and trying to spread the gospel to different areas and facing challenges. It can be done.

The Noah's Ark game already exists. The Nehemiah game you mentioned is probably the first Christian game that I've seen that hasn't made me cringe. I need to check it out.

radioactivemouse wrote:

To me, a Christian shows their life by what they "do". If a Christian makes a great game, regardless of whether it's a Bible game or not, then they are respected by the community and people look up to that person. If you create a crappy game with a Bible theme slapped on, it comes across as trying to cash-in on your religion and you're trying to shove religion on people's faces.

I wish more people felt that way.

Here's a list I found of a few of the Christians in the tabletop industry to give some idea of their output:

http://www.christian-gamers-guild.org/xians.html

Thu, 01/14/2016 - 16:24

#5

harmon89

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Joined: 01/13/2016

Soulfinger wrote: It's also

Soulfinger wrote:

It's also that, in many cases, the games are agenda-based. The designers aren't prioritizing fun, so much as proselytizing and preaching to the choir. Somehow, people make these games thinking that they will be a profound experience. Enthusiasm often trumps wisdom. Here's a really good link:

http://kotaku.com/5821259/christian-game-developers-want-to-leave-bad-games-behind

Good stuff! Well, I definitely want the game to be fun most of all. I won't make it unless it is. Since it's been a tradition to bring a game I've invented every year for Christmas, this year I brought this game. I made a rough prototype and play tested it about a dozen times and it got quite positive feedback, but then again, most of the players were family and friends. It might not look like it from the directions, but there is a decent bit of strategy. One thing I didn't foresee was that for many players it was too complicated. Which was a little strange because at least one of these people had played games like Puerto Rico and enjoyed it. Others seemed to catch on quite quickly.

I think the time traveling aspect threw some people off. They would see a card in the draw pool that was near where they were at on the board, but was sometimes 8 centuries in the future so they wouldn't be able to play it for a while. They didn't understand how you could plan to know where you would be 8 centuries later so they didn't know if they should take that card or not.

Thu, 01/14/2016 - 17:00

#6

radioactivemouse

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Joined: 07/08/2013

What about...

A Bible Game based on the game Timeline?

Thu, 01/14/2016 - 17:01

#7

harmon89

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Joined: 01/13/2016

It's quite a bit different

It's quite a bit different than that game I think.

Thu, 01/14/2016 - 18:46

#8

kevnburg

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Joined: 05/02/2014

We had a game design showdown

We had a game design showdown back in 2014 where all entrants had to have a religious theme. Thought it might be helpful to look at the entrants. Here's a link: http://www.bgdf.com/forum/game-design/game-design-showdown/gds-may-2014-...

Thu, 01/14/2016 - 19:29

#9

P3ERCGAMINGYSTEMS

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Joined: 01/02/2016

pushing the envelope

i like the idea that the OP recognizes the lack of originality in christian games.. i think if real thought goes into the design and pushes the envelope of what is currently out there, then its a valid endeavor. i like the idea of time travel to the past. i like games that make an impact.. i think this could be a potential thumbs up. the traps are keeping the game from becoming cheesy.. or straying to far from the purpose (to teach gospel i assume)

Thu, 01/14/2016 - 20:33

#10

questccg

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Joined: 04/16/2011

"The False Prophet"

What about a game that's more *controvertial* in that it's purpose is not to educate people about Christianity (no indoctrination) - but more of an "alternate" reality.

Here's the idea: Jesus walks the Earth and calls himself the King of the Jews... Pontius Pilate, ruler of the Roman Empire, contacts the rulers of the nearby countries in the attempt to secretly make a pact to spread lies through "False Prophets" from around the known World...

As such each country is claiming to have a Prophet representing their ideals... Rome, Athens, Istanbul, Cairo, Jerusalem, etc. all declare that they too have a Prophet sent to them from God...

IDK - this is certainly an ALTERNATE reality. But I like the idea of have several prophets on Earth at the same time...

Pure blasphemy (maybe)... But it's interesting! :P

Fri, 01/15/2016 - 00:00

#11

Soulfinger

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questccg wrote:Pure blasphemy

questccg wrote:

Pure blasphemy (maybe)... But it's interesting! :P

It's tame, actually, when compared to source material. Kind of missing the OP's target of creating a Bible-based game though. The Bible is so rich with material that alternate timelines are hardly necessary. Not to mention factoring in non-canonical works like the Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha, or works like the Apostolic Fathers. You want controversy? The original King James had 14 additional books in it that aren't present in modern editions. Set a game about scholars deciding on the content of the Bible in the lap of an evangelical believer in Biblical inerrancy. Hobby Lobby's new Bible museum actually omits facts like that which run contrary to their intended narrative:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/01/can-hobby-lobby-buy-...

Really, I see your idea as "Yeah, but how about a Biblical theme that requires no knowledge of the Bible to formulate!" A game of false prophets could easily be pieced together from Biblical source material and historic record. It's not as though Jesus was the only one who ever claimed to be the messiah. Simon the Sorcerer is a good Biblical example. Two of my favorites though are Sabbatai Zevi, an Ottoman Jew who claimed to be the messiah. He was given the choice of death or conversion to Islam. You'll never guess what he chose . . . unless you like guessing the obvious answer. Then you have Moses of Crete, who lent credence to Titus 1:11-13 by convincing his followers to leap into the sea as Moses had to return to Israel. (p.s. They drowned.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_messiah_claimants

harmon89 wrote:

Any thoughts of how I could still incorporate the big picture of the Bible and the map of Israel while not being unintentionally irreverent?

That's really a matter of being right with God. As I see it, even something like a board game can be seen as a form of teaching, as you are putting into print something that represents our faith and serves as a vehicle for God's Word. That prospect terrifies me, as James 3:1 says, "Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly." I've set aside ambitions of becoming a pastor, notions of writing articles, games, etc. because that mantle of accountability weighs very heavily and I realize the liability posed by my own faults. I feel tremendous sorrow for my wife's grandfather, a particularly cruel and bigoted prosperity preacher who will die soon and face an even harsher judgement than if he had never accepted Christ at all. I feel fortunate that I did wait on these things, as age revealed some fraction of my ignorance and opened me up to receiving wisdom. I'm going to revisit these ambitions once I've reread the Bible from the more informed perspective I have now and after I've read the aforementioned non-canonical works in their entirety -- which is to say once I've made Biblical scholarship a cornerstone of my identity. That's not really acknowledging the spiritual side of things, but this isn't so much the place for that.

In terms of "should I do this?" I look to Hebrews 5:11-14 and 1 Corinthians 3:1-23. When it comes to the idea of any project that involves proselytizing, my first thoughts are always of Matthew 23:15. For all I know, you are an uber pastor or a very goyim-oriented rabbi, but either way, the important thing is being sure that you are chewing solid food before teaching others to eat. That's the downfall of many eager new converts, who go door-to-door spreading the word, running when they should still be learning to crawl.

Fri, 01/15/2016 - 04:57

#12

Midnight_Carnival

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Joined: 06/17/2015

about the game itself

I'm sorry harmon89, but I suspect you will get a lot of feedback on your religious views and little helpful insight into your game.
Of course this may be something you wanted, perhaps it is a ploy to start a religious debate so you can share your own beliefs with people(?)
For me personally, who you pray to and how you pray makes no difference and I'm not interested in discussing religion on this forum.

So onto your game:
The time traveling sounds like fun although I wonder about why a time traveler would want to take the shortest possible route.
Would the game work if you changed the theme to be about someone wanting to capture highlights of the French revolution and would it appeal to people who weren't French?

My suggestion is to make it more competitive and add lots of different (brightly coloured, many sided) dice and wierd ways of scoring points or keeping track of them. Make the game mechanics as interesting as possible and steer away from "who knows their Bible best?" type approaches which will bore many devout Christians to death and completely alienate non-Christians. I'd look into ways of increasing the pace of the game, make it a rush or a scramble if possible

Fri, 01/15/2016 - 10:23

#13

harmon89

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Joined: 01/13/2016

P3ERCGAMINGYSTEMS wrote:i

P3ERCGAMINGYSTEMS wrote:

i think this could be a potential thumbs up. the traps are keeping the game from becoming cheesy.. or straying to far from the purpose (to teach gospel i assume)

Really my purpose is not to teach the gospel, but I do want to stay accurate to the Bible. The only assumption the game makes is that the events in the Bible actually happened. That's as preachy as it gets.

Here's some criteria I currently have for the goals of the game.

1. It has to be fun and engaging
2. It should be simple enough that a 10-11 year old could grasp it.
3. Must remain biblically accurate
4. Offers an innovative mechanic or experience

The 4th point is the one I would most like to work on at the moment. Based on the playtesting I've done so far I'd say the game is fun and engaging. I'm not sure if it simple enough for a 10 year old, but it is pretty close. I'm working on the biblical accuracy, but that is getting there. As for an innovative mechanic or experience I'm thinking that time travel is the key. I don't think there are too many time traveling board games out there, but I kind of want the time traveling aspect to be more than just, "oh look, I moved my space from the 14th century to the 15th century).

Does anyone have any thoughts of how the time traveling aspect could be beefed up a bit?

Fri, 01/15/2016 - 10:51

#14

harmon89

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Midnight_Carnival wrote:I'm

Midnight_Carnival wrote:

I'm sorry harmon89, but I suspect you will get a lot of feedback on your religious views and little helpful insight into your game.

Yeah, I've noticed that. Though so far I've been able to glean at least a little bit from every post. :)

Midnight_Carnival wrote:

So onto your game:
The time traveling sounds like fun although I wonder about why a time traveler would want to take the shortest possible route.
Would the game work if you changed the theme to be about someone wanting to capture highlights of the French revolution and would it appeal to people who weren't French?

I guess as for the time traveling aspect, I'm assuming that while time traveling itself takes no time, While you are spending time in the past, time in the present is moving at the same rate. So if you were time traveling for a year, when you got back to the present a year would pass. So traveling across Israel would still cost you time.

In the game this matters because you might have an event card in the far north that is very valuable to you (If the bonuses on the event card match the type of events that give you bonus points than a card could be a lot more valuable to one player than another). Should you spend several moves moving across the board to score those extra points or should you focus on more events in your area.

Based on current playtests the better strategy tends to be to focus on one area and choosing cards from the draft that are in the general region you are focusing on. This works except that you score extra points for traveling to different regions, so there is that to weigh as well.

Basically it is a game about opportunity cost.

And to answer your question about whether it would be the same game if you changed the theme, I'd say yes. At the moment I could change the theme out for any historical time period. I picked a biblical history because that is personally what I'm most interested in. I would like to incorporate the theme a little more into the gameplay, but I haven't gotten there yet.

Midnight_Carnival wrote:

Make the game mechanics as interesting as possible and steer away from "who knows their Bible best?" type approaches which will bore many devout Christians to death and completely alienate non-Christians.

I absolutely hate that almost every Bible game is a trivia game, so yeah, I'll definitely be steering clear of that. I like the idea of keeping things fast paced. Currently things move fairly quickly with 3-4 players, but with 5-6 it starts to slow down as people wait for their turn to come around again. If people spend their off turns thinking about what they will do next, but if they don't it can really slow down as people analyze each card that is available for them to choose, and then they calculate based on the cards in their hand how well each card fits into their current route they plan to take. Still working on how to make sure things speed along, or ensure players have things to do while it isn't their turn.

Sat, 01/16/2016 - 19:43

#15

andymorris

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Joined: 03/05/2014

My two cents

Like with any other game your 4th objective will be the most important thing. Hopefully, you can make a great game with a biblical history theme rather than a bible board game. Of course theme is one of the biggest factors for a game's audience, so your game will appeal primarily to Christians. I think that's okay. No theme will appeal to everyone, but if it's a solid game which just happens to have a bible theme I see no reason a non Christian would have an issue playing it.

A couple of thoughts on the game. I think it'd be nice if the map showed a wider region. I'd like to be able to see Egypt, and Babylon, as many important bible events took place in those places.

I'm not sure going back in time to take pictures is the best fit and I don't know about only moving forward in time when you have a time machine. What if the time machine device rather than actually taking you to the past simply showed you a bird's eye view to witness events that occurred in the past based on your current location. As a result, the movement part of the game would be in the present. Maybe the balance can be managing something like time credits to make sure you can see far enough back. I think that would fit your setup, but make the theme a bit more coherent. It would also allow you to compare current geographic borders with various points of time in the bible.

You mentioned making the time travel more central. I'm not sure that is the best idea. In a time travel game you'd expect to be able to go and change things in the past and play around with those implications in a Back to the Future 2 kind of way. I don't think that makes sense with a biblical theme, as you'd again risk being unintentionally irreverent.

As far as your 3rd goal, that will be very important for sure. I'm no scholar or anything, but I do have a bible degree and I'm very interested in biblical history and geography. If you want to send me a PM I'd be intetested to see what you've got.

Sat, 01/16/2016 - 20:25

#16

questccg

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Joined: 04/16/2011

Time travel idea is...

The time travel idea is BAD ... in my mind.

Why not make it that YOU are one of the four (4) Evangelical Apostles (Mathiew, Mark, Luke & John). And your goal is to travel to spread the Gospel as Jesus teaches it.

IF you want (Point #4) a CREATIVE MECHANIC, why not make JESUS an AI Character. Either controlled by a specific player on his turn or by group consensus or by pure AI (special cards)...

So as JESUS reveals through his teachings the various elements found in the Evangelical Books, his four (4) Apostles must spread those teaching to the various cities (of the land).

This is just an IDEA - I don't know how you could make it... exactly. But you wanted something ORIGINAL and ACCURATE. My guess is that the Apostles were not always at Jesus' side - they took his teachings and spread his word.

So instead of time travel, maybe make like "MISSIONS" where an Apostle must travel to Rome to "do something" (I'm not a big Bible person). So you would have to move from Jesus' location and travel to Rome to complete the "MISSION". I use the term "mission" because it's like a mini-mission asked by the Messiah...

Someone who accomplishes the "missions" of their Book FIRST - is declared the winner. This can be a specific number or match the Bible... I'm not certain. Accuracy is a temperamental thing...

You could only get a mission from Jesus himself... And that's why all the travelling around the countries (because Jesus will also move around - even if he is AI).

Maybe you like this idea - maybe not...

Sat, 01/16/2016 - 20:33

#17

questccg

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And maybe...

When you get to Rome - some condition makes it that you cannot complete your mission until you travel to another destination and complete that TASK first...

This could be a dice roll - to determine what the action is:

A>1-6: you complete the mission, no further requirements.
B>7-12: Pilate prohibits you from entering the city, you must visit a neighboring city to hide as a travelling merchant.

This is just a "dumb" example... I'm not very familiar with The Bible.

But you should get the idea. Then when you reach the neighboring city, you ask the head merchant if you can be part of his caravan.

A>1-6: he agrees and you may return to Rome and complete your mission
B>7-12: he says first you must travel to City "X" and deliver good, afterwards you may make your way to Rome.

Things like that...

Again just some idea... My 2 cents worth!

Sat, 01/16/2016 - 20:40

#18

questccg

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And maybe it's not DICE rolls

Maybe your four (4) Apostles can have STATS like "Charisma", "Negotiation", "Cunning", etc.

And to enter Rome would require Charisma = 5. If you have less, you must visit a nearby city (to sneak in with the Merchants). At that city, maybe it's Negotiation = 7. If you have less you must do the favor first and travel to city "X", etc.

Again just some ideas off the top of my head...

Update: Maybe STATS could be incremental... You gain XP+ for doing "missions" and you can increase a specific stat by +1 (like doing mission A, gives you +1 Cunning)... Sort of D&D like... but in the Biblical sense! :P

Update 2: And City "X" could be determined by a list of possible cities, some further away from Rome, other closer. Maybe if you have 1-3 Negotiation: City = Alexandria, 4-6 Negotiation: City = Genoa.

Genoa being much closer than Alexandria because you must travel across the Mediterranean sea...

Sun, 01/17/2016 - 09:45

#19

The Professor

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Joined: 10/25/2014

Great piece

Soulfinger,

Thanks for including the Atlantic piece in your comments. I'm a resident of VA, but work in D.C. While I heard obliquely about the museum, I hadn't yet read any comprehensive information about it.

Cheers,
Joe

Sun, 01/17/2016 - 16:07

#20

Tedthebug

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Joined: 01/17/2016

Not all games have to be 'nice'

Hi all, this is my first post so please go easy on me (I'm also a PC game design student so will probably make mistakes here).

What I'd like to chip in is that all bible/Jesus games don't need to be nice. A lot of people play games to escape from their every day life & games can let them do or say things that they refrain from doing or saying in their real life due to the consequences & their beliefs. By all means make a cooperative game but also consider that at least one apostle worked against Jesus. If the players all played unnamed followers of Jesus (I'd rather not have them as apostles as it does limit the traitorous personality characters), & the game had more than say 3 players, let one of them play a Judas style figure who has to discretely try to undermine the groups achievements without getting caught.

If there was a range of character bios that were randomly assigned the players could all play act however they liked so long as they fit within the bounds on the bio card. I'm thinking of the game as a sort of cross between How to Host a Murder & a board game.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

Good luck.

Sun, 01/17/2016 - 17:04

#21

The Professor

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Joined: 10/25/2014

Successful Precursors

Ted,

One of the great game mechanics which has been used successfully in the past is that of a traitor, most notably in both Shadows Over Camelot and Battlestar Galactica, where one individual is actively acting in a way diametrically opposed to the rest of the players. A game in which the hundreds of unnamed "followers" or disciples are trying to perform one way, while one member of the tribe may be plotting against them, is a tried-and-true variable.

Cheers,
Joe

Sun, 01/17/2016 - 18:44

#22

radioactivemouse

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Joined: 07/08/2013

Already out...

questccg wrote:

The time travel idea is BAD ... in my mind.

Why not make it that YOU are one of the four (4) Evangelical Apostles (Mathiew, Mark, Luke & John). And your goal is to travel to spread the Gospel as Jesus teaches it.

IF you want (Point #4) a CREATIVE MECHANIC, why not make JESUS an AI Character. Either controlled by a specific player on his turn or by group consensus or by pure AI (special cards)...

So as JESUS reveals through his teachings the various elements found in the Evangelical Books, his four (4) Apostles must spread those teaching to the various cities (of the land).

This is just an IDEA - I don't know how you could make it... exactly. But you wanted something ORIGINAL and ACCURATE. My guess is that the Apostles were not always at Jesus' side - they took his teachings and spread his word.

So instead of time travel, maybe make like "MISSIONS" where an Apostle must travel to Rome to "do something" (I'm not a big Bible person). So you would have to move from Jesus' location and travel to Rome to complete the "MISSION". I use the term "mission" because it's like a mini-mission asked by the Messiah...

Someone who accomplishes the "missions" of their Book FIRST - is declared the winner. This can be a specific number or match the Bible... I'm not certain. Accuracy is a temperamental thing...

You could only get a mission from Jesus himself... And that's why all the travelling around the countries (because Jesus will also move around - even if he is AI).

Maybe you like this idea - maybe not...

There's a game called Commissioned, and it was reviewed recently by the Game Boy Geek last year. It's set around the same time period as your idea and kinda has the same premise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnQl6PbyVZQ

Sun, 01/17/2016 - 22:22

#23

questccg

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Joined: 04/16/2011

Different I think

radioactivemouse wrote:

There's a game called Commissioned, and it was reviewed recently by the Game Boy Geek last year. It's set around the same time period as your idea and kinda has the same premise.

While I got the impression that the Player play various Apostles, I didn't really get to see anything about "Jesus" himself in "Commissioned". To me it looked very "meeple"-oriented.

As the reviewer himself says, it seems like Pandemic in "reverse". Instead of trying to remove cubes from the board, you are trying to spread them all across the board.

I think my "mission" concept is different. And I think having AI to control JESUS is also unique. There is the books of the Apostles which may seem common - but IF you want it to be Biblicaly accurate, there will be some common/overlapping elements.

Mon, 01/18/2016 - 10:45

#24

Dralius

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Joined: 07/26/2008

questccg wrote:What about a

questccg wrote:

What about a game that's more *controvertial* in that it's purpose is not to educate people about Christianity (no indoctrination) - but more of an "alternate" reality.

Here's the idea: Jesus walks the Earth and calls himself the King of the Jews... Pontius Pilate, ruler of the Roman Empire, contacts the rulers of the nearby countries in the attempt to secretly make a pact to spread lies through "False Prophets" from around the known World...

As such each country is claiming to have a Prophet representing their ideals... Rome, Athens, Istanbul, Cairo, Jerusalem, etc. all declare that they too have a Prophet sent to them from God...

IDK - this is certainly an ALTERNATE reality. But I like the idea of have several prophets on Earth at the same time...

Pure blasphemy (maybe)... But it's interesting! :P

Speaking of blasphemy. https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/33125/blasphemy "In Blasphemy you take part in the fate of a would-be Messiah. Your aim is to convince your compatriots that your Jesus, and your Jesus alone, is the genuine article."

Mon, 01/18/2016 - 11:19

#25

harmon89

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Joined: 01/13/2016

Thanks for the comment

andymorris wrote:

Like with any other game your 4th objective will be the most important thing. Hopefully, you can make a great game with a biblical history theme rather than a bible board game. Of course theme is one of the biggest factors for a game's audience, so your game will appeal primarily to Christians. I think that's okay. No theme will appeal to everyone, but if it's a solid game which just happens to have a bible theme I see no reason a non Christian would have an issue playing it.

A couple of thoughts on the game. I think it'd be nice if the map showed a wider region. I'd like to be able to see Egypt, and Babylon, as many important bible events took place in those places.

I'm not sure going back in time to take pictures is the best fit and I don't know about only moving forward in time when you have a time machine. What if the time machine device rather than actually taking you to the past simply showed you a bird's eye view to witness events that occurred in the past based on your current location. As a result, the movement part of the game would be in the present. Maybe the balance can be managing something like time credits to make sure you can see far enough back. I think that would fit your setup, but make the theme a bit more coherent. It would also allow you to compare current geographic borders with various points of time in the bible.

You mentioned making the time travel more central. I'm not sure that is the best idea. In a time travel game you'd expect to be able to go and change things in the past and play around with those implications in a Back to the Future 2 kind of way. I don't think that makes sense with a biblical theme, as you'd again risk being unintentionally irreverent.

As far as your 3rd goal, that will be very important for sure. I'm no scholar or anything, but I do have a bible degree and I'm very interested in biblical history and geography. If you want to send me a PM I'd be intetested to see what you've got.

Thanks Andy. This is the sort of comments I was hoping to get. :)

In one of my earlier versions of the game board I tried to show the locations outside of Israel like Babylon and Egypt, but you will notice if you look at a map that there is a huge distance between those locations. You would end up with a lot of wasted space with a small portion of the board crammed with a majority of the locations. Another thought would be to have 2 boards. On the board covering a larger area there would be 1 dot to represent Israel, and when you landed on the dot you would pop over to the zoomed in map of Israel. As cool as it would be to see the other regions, using the arrows seems to be the cleanest way to deal with the issue at the moment.

I like your idea of observing the past. I'm trying to figure out what would be your objective in going around Israel looking at the past (aside from the fact that it would be incredibly awesome of course.)

I think because of stories like Back to the Future people think that going back to the past has to be about changing it. What if in the game you were penalized if you were noticed by a crowd. (A crowd could look sort of like the "robber" in Catan)

Mon, 01/18/2016 - 23:46

#26

rjb

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Joined: 08/01/2015

I like your idea

Hi Harmon89,

I really like your general idea, and agree with your last reply that adding the possibility of being noticed by somebody else would lead to a penalty somehow. I also think that you could possibly have events, such as bad weather, Roman troops on the roads, etc. that you would need to deal with and/or avoid. Like others have stated, I don't think that traveling through time to change events is appropriate for a Biblical theme (although I guess it depends what events you would change:).

On a slightly different note, what is the overall goal of the time travel? Is it to bring back proof of Biblical events, for example? I don't know that there necessarily needs to be a larger goal for the game, I'm just curious. But, if there was a larger goal designed for the photographers (why are they taking pictures in the first place other than because of the cool time travel thing?), it could potentially add significantly to the game. This is a situation where you might have to perform a balancing act between so-called 'proselytizing' and just making a good game (depending on what the larger goal is), but it could give you a goal for the game to work towards - if that makes sense.

Also, what if you gave the photographers special abilities in their quest to take pictures? BTW, where/how did you get your board and cards made? They look very nice.

Ruben

Tue, 01/19/2016 - 10:57

#27

harmon89

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Joined: 01/13/2016

rjb wrote:Hi Harmon89, I

rjb wrote:

Hi Harmon89,

I really like your general idea, and agree with your last reply that adding the possibility of being noticed by somebody else would lead to a penalty somehow. I also think that you could possibly have events, such as bad weather, Roman troops on the roads, etc. that you would need to deal with and/or avoid. Like others have stated, I don't think that traveling through time to change events is appropriate for a Biblical theme (although I guess it depends what events you would change:).

On a slightly different note, what is the overall goal of the time travel? Is it to bring back proof of Biblical events, for example? I don't know that there necessarily needs to be a larger goal for the game, I'm just curious. But, if there was a larger goal designed for the photographers (why are they taking pictures in the first place other than because of the cool time travel thing?), it could potentially add significantly to the game. This is a situation where you might have to perform a balancing act between so-called 'proselytizing' and just making a good game (depending on what the larger goal is), but it could give you a goal for the game to work towards - if that makes sense.

Also, what if you gave the photographers special abilities in their quest to take pictures? BTW, where/how did you get your board and cards made? They look very nice.

Ruben

Thanks for your post. :)

Yeah, my initial thought is that if documenting the past was possible there would probably end up being some type of Christian organization that would be willing to hire people to go back to photographically record past biblical events.

I like your idea of adding obstacles such as crowds or soldiers. Could be interesting. I just want to make sure that whatever is added isn't being added just to create a more compelling story, but that it actually makes the game itself more fun. While some games are greatly enhanced by a story, requiring a game to have a story can be overrated. I've played my game with people without telling them they are photographers trying to take pictures of events. They enjoy the game just as much. When you are playing Pictionary you don't have some back story for why everyone is drawing pictures of words on a card. Even in a game like Dominion or Ticket To Ride, it doesn't really matter what the story behind the game is, you will have more or less the same experience.

Thanks for the compliment on the cards and board. I'm still working on tweaking the look of both. Right now they are just photoshop files that I've created. They have yet to be printed. I'm currently using a rough prototype until I have the rules ironed out a little more.

I've played that game over a dozen times so far, and overall it works quite well as it is. The biggest issues I've seen at the moment is that with 6 players the game can slow down a little bit if people are prone to AP.

Tue, 01/19/2016 - 12:27

#28

andymorris

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Joined: 03/05/2014

Two more cents

I'm not sure about the idea of trying to avoid being spotted. I think you're getting into the area where the challenge of biblical themed games lies, as seen in some of suggestions people have made. It's hard to have a game where it doesn't feel like you're changing/adding to the bible, taking the bible too lightly or wondering why players are competing. That's what I like about the premise of this game. You're not doing anything in or around the biblical world, you're just witnessing biblical events for exactly what they were. I don't think you need a back story. Getting to see the events of the bible would be inherently awesome.

Tue, 01/19/2016 - 14:12

#29

radioactivemouse

Offline

Joined: 07/08/2013

Not my cup of tea.

andymorris wrote:

I'm not sure about the idea of trying to avoid being spotted. I think you're getting into the area where the challenge of biblical themed games lies, as seen in some of suggestions people have made. It's hard to have a game where it doesn't feel like you're changing/adding to the bible, taking the bible too lightly or wondering why players are competing. That's what I like about the premise of this game. You're not doing anything in or around the biblical world, you're just witnessing biblical events for exactly what they were. I don't think you need a back story. Getting to see the events of the bible would be inherently awesome.

The thought of seeing biblical events would be appealing, but take the subject matter and put it in another historical setting and it starts to be a little bland as a mechanic...at least in my eyes.

My opinion would be to create a GAME first with a theme in mind, do historical research, then apply the elements into the game.

Remember, just because you have great intentions on something doesn't mean you'll do it right. Focus on how to do it right.

Tue, 01/19/2016 - 19:10

#30

rjb

Offline

Joined: 08/01/2015

more than theme

Harmon89,

I agree that just slapping a theme on the game wouldn't make a difference. I should've stated that the purpose of a larger goal, such as why they're time traveling and taking pictures, could add mechanics and gameplay to 'beef up' the game, as you asked about. Maybe you could have competing interests, where a player or teams of players are the 'bad' guys who have not-so-nice objectives and the good player(s) have to stop them while taking pictures of their own. You could have secret objective cards for the players (like getting pictures of an event before anyone else or getting the most pictures of something, etc.). You could give the player special powers, like video recording or digital photography capabilities or something. Maybe a special ability could be to photograph people well. Another could be to photograph architecture well. I think there's a ton of stuff that could potentially be added.

Ruben

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