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Deck of Random Outcomes - How big should it be?

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Yamahako
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Joined: 12/01/2010

I'm working on a game that is a simulation of poker.

I know this sounds strange, but bear with me for a moment. You are playing someone who is playing in a dirty poker game. So rather than actually play poker, you are controlling the things they are doing to, shall we say "improve their odds" so to speak.

I want the game to have a big poker feel, but be based way more on strategy than on luck, so to speak.

However, like in poker, if you have a really bad hand, there is a lot of incentive to just stay out of the game because you can only "improve your luck" so much. So I want to introduce a pot splitting mechanic. Both as a carrot to keep people in the game longer, and also as a way for more advanced players to utilize strategy a bit more.

Basically, the game starts out with players being dealt a hand of 5 cards and putting in an Ante. I haven't decided on big blind/little blind, or anything exciting like that - though that mechanic does seem like it would keep things moving better.

Then players commit to a "hand of cards" face down in front of them. Each card in the deck has a hand listed on it - 5 cards - that is worth a quantity of points. From 2 pair, to a Royal Flush. Each card, in addition to having a poker hand on it, has modifiers and abilities on it - so choosing your hand is not necessarily as simple as picking the hand with the most points, as the card might have an ability on it that would serve you better in the game. After committing to a hand, there's a betting round. People can fold at this point as per normal.

Then people play cards from their hands onto other players. Each player can have a total of 5 cards played on them (or play them on themselves). These will be cards that add value to, or subtract value from, the committed hand. In addition they may have special effects. After each player has 5 modifier cards, there's a betting round, with people able to fold etc.

Then, the pot-split card is revealed. This might be something like "Hi-Low", or "Winner Take All", or "Lowest Spade" or something like that. These will refer to your committed hand - unrelated to the points modifiers. It's this part that I'm trying to get more information on (but I'll come back to it in a sec). Then there is another betting round, people can fold etc.

Then there's the reveal (unless there's only 1 player left in the game). Each player would reveal the point value of their hand (with modifiers), and that player would win half of the pot (except in a winner take all game), and the person (aside from the winner) who met the conditions for the pot split would take the rest.

Now that second deck, the pot-split deck (or the "game" deck as some people call it) is my enigma. I don't know how big to make it! I want it to be random (as I said, this is an incentive to keep people with bad hands in the game so it doesn't take so long) but predictable. Certain cards in Phase II may let you peak at this deck (maybe a card at the bottom, maybe even the top card), so there is some ways to glean information - and if the deck is small enough that people generally know what the cards are, then there is some predictability as the game progresses to what pot-splits haven't shown up yet. This deck, also, might be the game clock. Once the deck has run out, the person with the most chips wins.

So question time since I find specific questions tend to be more useful.

1. How many poker hands are typically played at your friendly table in about 60 minutes?
2. How many different cards from a typical deck do you remember well enough to start expecting one to show up?
3. What are some of your favorite Split-the-Pot poker variants?
4. What do you think of the game concept as a whole?

Thanks for your feedback!

Yamahako
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Joined: 12/01/2010
I ran an earlier prototype at

I ran an earlier prototype at Orccon 2011 in the game designers event - so if any of you guys are on here you might remember this game. It was kinda blah, and we ran through a ton of iterations - and it had the crazy high-low risk dice. If you did play it before, what do you think of this newer version?

AndyGB
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Joined: 10/05/2011
Cool idea

Quote:
So question time since I find specific questions tend to be more useful.

1. How many poker hands are typically played at your friendly table in about 60 minutes?
2. How many different cards from a typical deck do you remember well enough to start expecting one to show up?
3. What are some of your favorite Split-the-Pot poker variants?
4. What do you think of the game concept as a whole?

Thanks for your feedback!

Hi,

First off, I really like this idea. It seems like a very interesting take on poker. Also you get to play hands you'll never see in your regular poker game, and to have a more strategic take on poker night.

To your specific questions:
1. I've never counted, but I'd say that a normal hand would take at least 5 mins. Hands where everyone folds obviously go quicker, but they're balanced out by those drawn out plays where either someone is showboating or two people are just caught up talking about their day. 12 hands an hour... hm, that seems slow actually. I think casinos get through about 30-50 hands an hour so maybe 20 for a homegame moving at a good clip.

2. It will maybe be easier to remember the cards cycling through the event deck if they also have a unique identifier. What I mean is that if you gave rank and suit designations to the event cards, they might be easier to track. For example, all the 'spade in the hole' splits are Kings, all the low-value hand splits are Aces. Then I might not remember "We haven't seen 2-5 lowball" but I might remember "the Ace of hearts didn't come up yet."

3. High spade in play, low spade in play. Variations could include counting the Ace as low or not. Variations we don't play but that could be interesting would be having the 2nd highest or 2nd lowest.
High low split, eight-low or better. Straights and flushes don't count against you for the low, so the best low hand is A to 5.
High low split, 2-7. Straights and flushes do count against you, and Ace is always high, so the best low is 2-3-4-5-7.
Another we don't generally play but you could would be lowball--lowest hand in play, with no qualifier. So the lowest hand could be something like a pair of kings, if everyone else happened to have better hands.
There's also high/low split where the players have to declare which way they're going, I think that usually does not have a qualifier either, so you can decide that your straight is no good and declare for low.
[I'm certain there's more knowledgeable poker players out there, and of course the internet is full of them, so please just take these as starting points.]

4. Like I said, I think this overall idea is really good; you mentioned one thing that is important I think which is you'd have to find a way of making it appealing to play something other than your straight-flush every time. But I'm sure that can be worked out.

Best of luck to you!
AndyGB

gabrielcohn
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Joined: 11/25/2010
ROUNDS

If you have a defined number of hands that will be played, include exactly that number in the deck (or that number +1 or +2). So, if the game is intended to last 10 rounds, have a deck of 10 pot-splitters. A good player will know which ones are left at the end of the game.

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