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Diplomacy-like game with more war and intrigue

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Empires
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I had an idea about a game similar to diplomacy (the completely non-random area control game) that would be on a global scale with 3-5 players. In the game you would control one of 5 world powers and attempt to control a certain amount of territories. Each territory holds a valuable resource (Minerals, Oil, Food) that are used to produce developments and units to help take over other territories. There are no territories neutral in a 5 -player game, however in 3 and 4 player games the other nations can be captured with no resistance. The core of the game though is to negotiate and make alliances with the other nations. This can be to make non-aggression pacts, trade resources, gang up on other nations, etc, but ultimately to help you win. There are 4 phases- Negotiation, Movement, Combat, and Build. Each are taken almost simultaneously because the orders for each are secret until revealed. No changes can be made after that.

At the start of turn, the ("diplomat?") marker is passed to the next player. The (diplomat?) carries out the orders each player submitted during each phase this turn. He may also look at one piece of information passes during negotiations or one of the orders during movement or one players' army/navy/air contents. Negotiations are written out onto notes and put into envelopes. Each player has an envelope for respective nations. The target may write back and resources and developments can be exchanged, as well as non-binding promises. During movement, each player may move their armies and navies one territory each. Armies can only move on land, navies only on water and coast areas. Aircraft can move 3, but must land in a friendly land or navy area. Only one army/navy/air can be in any territory at once unless you intend to attack. Armies can be "transported" across water if you have a sort of bridge crossing water with navies

Combat is different. Armies, Navies, and Aircraft (what do you call large groups of those anyway?) always are made up of at least one "unit". Each type has 3 units that work sort of like rock paper scissors against everything else. When a figure is built, other players know that it is an army(example), but don't know if it has tanks or artillery or infantry in it, or a combination of all or some. When combat happens, each player lines up their units in a line, and assign positions 1,2,3, 4 etc. to them in order. Then they are revealed and matched up. same units or ones that don't affect each other are placed at the end of the line. The chart for unit strengths and weaknesses is as follows;

Armies-
Infantry- good vs. artillery, carriers, and gunships
Tanks- good vs. infantry, submarines, and fighters
Artillery- good vs. tanks, battleships, and bombers

Navies-
Battleships- Tanks, Submarines, Fighters
Carriers- Artillery, Battleships, Gunships
Submarines- Infantry, Carriers, Bombers

Aircraft-
Bombers- Infantry, Battleships, Fighters
Fighters- Artillery, Carriers, Gunships
Gunships- Tanks, Submarines, Bombers

The battle is over when either all of one player's units are destroyed or it is impossible for any person to win. I that is the case, the attacking player retreats and his units are placed back in the army in the zone he attacked from.
Finally, build happens last. Each player collects 1 resource from each of thier territories. . Minerals-mountains, Food-Plains, Oil-Tundra, Desert, and some coast. Each nation has at least one of these resources. Then they can spend one to do something in each territory. Only one build can be done in each territory. They can build a unit into an existing army/navy etc., build a new army/navy etc., or pay 3 of any to buy a development card. Armies and their units cost food, Navies and their units cost Minerals, Aircraft and their units cost Oil. Development cards help in battle or gain random effects.
Each nation also has bonuses.
America+Canada+UK+Australia- May produce 1 extra resources of your choice.
Europe+Russia- May look at 2 different envelope when diplomat
China+Japan+Korea+Indochina-May build twice in each region. May not move next turn
Middle East+Africa- May attack twice. May not build this turn
Central+South America+Caribbean- May move an extra space with everything. May not attack this turn.
The game is over when a certain amount of regions is captured (15?) Each nation starts with about 5 or 6

What do you think?

Nightwalker
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A pile of questions.

Empires wrote:
Aircraft (what do you call large groups of those anyway?)

Thats called an Airforce :P

Now onto your game, it sounds like you have done allot of thinking about it, but as I can't read your mind I have a few questions.

What does the board look like? is it like a risk board?
How do you build units? do you just pay for them, or are there buildings as well.
How do you get resources, are they automatic for the places you control, or do you have to build a building/harvester?
In combat, can you attack their land, ie destroy their oil fields?
How does combat work? Is it like table top games like 40k, with strength, and weapon charts?
Can you lie, ie say I will give you 12 Oil barrels for 24 food, then just take the food and not give them the oil?

Thanks, your game sounds very interesting, I think it would take a good read of the rules, then some slow starts, but then it would be all political rivalry

Empires
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Thanks for the questions.

Note: Development cards are renamed Action cards to show that they are not related to buildings.

Airforce, obviously. Why didn't I think of that?

The board is a world map more similar to Axis and Allies, but not nearly as many regions.

You build units during the build phase by just paying the resource and putting a token on the respective army. Most likely these would be behind a player screen and your figures would have corresponding numbers. You pay 1 resource to build figures or units, but the figures cost is just to put a unit in it as it cannot march around with nothing in it.(like you can in Civilization by FFG) All army figures/units and aircraft must be built on land or coast (half-land, half-water) and naval figures/units must be built on coast, no exceptions. No buildings required

You get resources at the start of the build phase, 1 per region (For example, Egypt is a desert and has an oil icon in it. The middle East player would gain 1 oil from that region.) Buildings are not required. In fact, buildings are not in the game at all.

I never thought of that in combat, but I suppose if you win that battle, you take that resource from that player (For example, Russia invades Egypt and succeeds. Russia takes an oil from the Middle East player.

I probably didn't explain combat well enough. I'm going to give a step-by-step on how combat works.

Russia has a Fleet 2 in West Mediterranean Sea(sea). Middle East has an Army 3 in Egypt(coast). During the movement phase, Russia moves Fleet 2 to Egypt. In combat, each player takes the 10-space battle sheet. (numbered 1-10) Each player places all battle forces in a line starting from 1 in their order choice( secretly; neither player knows what is in each space.)

Egypt places his Infantry in space 1, and his Tank in Space 2
Russia places his Battleship in space 1, his Submarine in Space 2, and his Carrier in Space 3
Egypt than plays a Action card that says "Missile Attack: before Battle. Destroy a naval unit in a space of your choice. He decides to destroy the unit in space 3, which is revealed as a Carrier. If there were more units behind, they would move to fill space 3.
Round 1. The space 1 is revealed for both players. Referring to the Strength chart from before, neither a Battleship nor Infantry do anything to each other, so they both move to the ends of their lines. The next units then move up. Round 2.The tank and carrier are then revealed, and the tank destroys the carrier. The carrier is placed in the common supply area. The tank is moved to the end of the line again.
Round 3. the Battleship and Infantry square off , resulting in a draw again. The Infantry moves to the end, but the Battleship is Russia's only unit left so it stays.
Round 4. The battleship and tank are revealed, and the battleship destroys the tank. Egypt's tank is placed in t he common supply area.
Round 5. The battleship and infantry are at it again, and are the last two units left. Normally, this would result in a draw and retreat by Russia, but Russia plays the Action card "Crush Them When They're Weak: Battle: When the enemy has only one unit left, destroy it. If your unit would be destroyed, save it."
Conclusion: Russia narrowly wins the battle with a timely action card. His fleet moves into Egypt and takes an oil resource from the Middle East player. Russia then moved 1 up the required territory track (15 for a win)

Yes, of course you can lie, that's the point of the game is to try any way you can to win. Of course, you may want to win their trust for a portion of the game and may take that deal... (and just as a notice, it is rare that resource levels would get that high, more around 5 or 6 from overstock because you always want to build when you can.

Thanks for your feedback Nightwalker!

Nightwalker
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One more thing

Empires wrote:

I never thought of that in combat, but I suppose if you win that battle, you take that resource from that player (For example, Russia invades Egypt and succeeds. Russia takes an oil from the Middle East player.

I was more meaning destroy the resource, for example if I was Germany, and I was trying to damage Asia, I might attack China, with a forlorn hope, then destroy Chinas resources, thereby preventing them from being built again. the next turn the Asia player may just take china back, but the damage has been done.

Thanks for answering the rest of my questions, your game sounds very interesting :) can't wait for more information, pictures etc about it.

Empires
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Good Idea

I was thinking in more that you capture resources. But, I can instead do when you capture a territory, you may destroy resources or keep region intact. Also, that player only takes the resource from the player if the defeated him in combat, not annexation.

Example: Near the very beginning of the game, Latin America and North Atlantic made a deal. North Atlantic will retreat its Airforce 2 from Texas and Mexico can move its Army 1 into Mexico, but only if Americas Fleet 3 can move into the Caribbean . Then Latin America can decide to destroy the oil resource and no one can ever use it, or keep using it. This choice can only be made now, unless Latin America recaptured Texas. The same goes with the Food resource in the Caribbean. America could destroy it or save it. He decides to destroy it (by placing a destroyed marker over the resource) in case Latin America wanted to take it back later, and he didn't need anymore food. America wanted the Caribbean as a staging point for invasions into Venezuela and West Africa...

Thank you so much for the flattery XD (just kidding, but not really) Since this the first positive outcome I've ever heard on any games I design, I may stick with it. That's one of the main reasons I joined this forum! :)

PS. I wanted to edit an error I made in my last post but I can't. During combat when it said a Carrier and Tank were revealed, it should have said Submarine instead of Carrier. The Carrier was destroyed by the Missile Attack. Also, The 10-space battle line is it. Extra units in excess of ten are set of the side, until there are spaces on the line. Then new "reinforcements" come into play at the end of the line.

bonsaigames
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Guessing is Not Strategic

Randomly choosing the combat order seems to detract from the overall strategy elements of your game.
Perhaps you could have a combat staging area on the game board, where the players involved in the fight could take turns placing units into opposing slots, then using your RPS system to resolve the combat the way you described previously.
Hope that Helps,
Levi
www.bonsaigames.net

bonsaigames
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Double Post

Double Post

Empires
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The Combat is not random...

The players choose where they put their units on the line secretly. Player A does not know what Player B put down and Player B does not know what Player A put down. Where did I say it was random?

bonsaigames
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Secret = Guessing

Since I don't have any idea what I'm matching up against when I chose my unit order, I'm just guessing at what my opponent might play and she's doing the same. Imagine if armies really fought this way; they just show up with everything they have and line them up on a hunch sending them into battle one at a time. This limits the strategy and rewards dumb luck for making a random good RPS match. Unless I'm misreading something, which is entirely possible. :)

The new Civ game handles what it sounds like you're trying to do by placing pawns on the board and having a hand of cards which are played one at a time in a battle with a RPS mechanic.

Empires
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Importance of Spies

Sorry I haven't posted in a while. I have been gone and busy.

@bonsaigames, about "randomly" fighting, it is important to look at enemy army contents to see what you are up against. In concordance with this, I am changing the "Diplomat" (I really need a better name for the person that makes moves for everyone on the world map to look at 3 different envelopes and/or army contents, and Russia/Europe's ability is increased to look at 5 or 6 envelopes/armies.

Another idea I had is that each nation has 3 different setup cards they can choose from to start with different positions, resources, units, and development cards in hand to attempt different strategies. One would be the recommended starter player setup, while the other two are more advanced.

Thanks for all previous input.

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