Skip to Content
 

Educational Chemistry Game

12 replies [Last post]
Amadameus
Amadameus's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/10/2011

Quick Summary:
Players use cards and dice to manage a chemical plant, manufacture valuable molecules and compete for limited resources.

Go on...
I'm a Chemistry/Math major working on my third year of college in Minnesota, looking to get my Education Degree soon. I currently volunteer at a nearby high school. As a small research project, I'm going to design a board game that will (hopefully) be fun to play and incorporate elements of the students' curriculum into the game mechanics.

Sounds tricky.
I'm sure that everyone here can understand just how much skill and knowledge is involved in being good at a game. Kids are motivated to learn all the tricks and cheats for the latest Call of Doody (yes, that was a pun) but for some reason, getting them to remember and use the skills needed for a class curriculum is like pulling teeth. Why?

Educational games never seem to hit the mark - they are witheringly boring and usually take a popular game and put a "throttle" on it by only allowing a critical action to take place once the player does something inane like answer a trivia question. There must be a better way!

Who?
It will be aimed at the high school level, it should be playable by anyone from Freshman Physical Science (basic ionic compounds) to AP Chem (hydrogen bonding and catalysts) and include basic information about Chemistry as part of the game.

No - I meant who the heck are you, ya mook!
I'm not a complete newbie when it comes to games - I've been playing 3.5 edition D&D for the better part of 5 years now, I've had brushing encounters with Magic: The Gathering and am currently addicted to Borderlands (you'd be amazed just how much math is hiding in that game) and with a solid grasp of math and programming I feel confident that I can design a balanced game.

I consider myself a fairly crafty person, which means that I'll be able to put together a good-looking game - there will be plenty of photos as the project comes along.

Start talkin' about the game already!
So far, here's the idea:
---Players have a 'hand' of various reactants, divided into types and classes. (Ionic, Acid/Base, Combustion, Covalent - these may change but a basic 4-category system seems good)
---By assembling a valid reaction using cards, they create a 'batch' to mix up in their reactor. Once the reaction has run to completion, they sell their compounds for points and their turn ends.

---Resources discarded from their hand or from the reaction are entered into a 'pool' from which other players may draw at a deep discount. With a limited hand size, this forces players to assess just how useful their waste products are to others.
---Opportunities (not sure when or where yet) to draw from a "Chance" deck are provided, which give the players access to temporary buffs(higher yield, more cards, better sale prices), permanent equipment bonuses(there are several industrial reactor types) or penalties to others(strongarm market tactics, industrial espionage or even sabotage).

Example?
Angulimala has Sodium, Muriatic Acid, Propane, O2 and Lithium in his hand.

Lithium is a high-value card, but has no useful nonmetals to react them with. (Anyone who's in Chem will know he does have a few quirky reactions available in his hand, but remember: this is for the high school level.)

He discards O2 into the pool and draws Fluorine - perfect! He throws Lithium and Fluorine into his reactor, which is a standard batch tank(no bonuses or penalties). The reaction will finish next turn.
---
Ada Byron has Propane, two Aluminums, NaOH and Ethyl Alcohol in her hand.

Combining O2 and Propane is the "Queen" of the Combustion class reactions, so she purchases O2 from the discard pool at a discount and immediately throws them into her Fluidized Bed Reactor(faster reaction speed, expensive startup cost) and waits for the big payoff.

Before the reaction finishes, Angulimala pulls out a Chance card - "Sabotage: Place one of your reactants in an opponent's reaction chamber." He uses the card on Ada's reactor and leaves a big fat pile of Muriatic Acid in the chamber.

The reaction goes to completion, however the impurities reduce her market price and Ada's final payoff is only a fraction of what she might have recieved.

Well, what do you want from us?
Input, commentary, thoughts or concerns. I'll be playtesting this several times before I bring it before the class - the goal will be to observe the game's play and how it may differ from the construction of other educational games.

The game is still in Alpha-alpha stage, there's nothing on paper and all I really have are a few pads of paper with scribbles. But it's developing, and I'm excited to see where I can take it!

rcjames14
rcjames14's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/17/2010
Goals

At first glance, your design seems feasible. You have chosen to adapt essentially a meld / set making system into chemistry. Instead of numbers and suits, players have a handful of components which they can mix to form compounds that earn them points (depending upon the commercial value of them?) If the math works out, it is actually a very nifty twist on the traditional set-collecting mechanic since it allows for complex combinations to emerge without resorting to abstract numerical combinations (eg. sets of 4s or a run of 5,6,7,8). In this case, the awkward properties of chemistry can actually be turned into a design advantage, as players search through their memory/cheatsheet for ways of using the combination of atoms they have on hand. Sort of like a bartender's guide.

However, here's the rub: No one wants a game that forces them to think, and that's precisely what the non-intuitive reactions of chemistry would do. The fact that they help you earn points will only be a thinly veiled facade that it is fundamentally an edutainment game assigned to them by their chemistry teacher with an emphasis on the education part. People don't mind being in an environment where thinking / learning will help them play better. Here is where Call of Duty, Magic and Borderlands come in. All these games actually prove that people's desire to learn is boundless if they are doing it for some other goal (such as killing the other guy). But, the thinking / learning cannot be the point of the game. That's called education.

Now... you're not going to like this idea, but a commercially successful game needs to give players a reason to play it. Usually having a compelling theme, competition and an aspect of fantasy helps. Along with a psychologically rewarding experience which includes a variety of different emotions. Perhaps if the points they earn were related to their grades in the class, that would help. But, they would only play your game begrudgingly. So I would suggest something far more fun. Turn your class into a bunch of bomb makers.

Chemical reactions are not just the kind of stuff that happen in a test-tube, they are also responsible for explosions, glues, paints and many other materials we routinely use today that people 500 years ago would have considered magic. The more that players feel motivated to put together these reactants to create compounds to produce effects that help them destroy things or produce other crazy magic like things, the more that they will forget that they are actually learning how to put them together. This is not really responsible chemistry, and probably won't fly with a chemistry department, but it is how players learn through games. So, if learning is your goal, you will find that if you design an interface where players can input different components and discover whether they produce any result that is useful to them in the context of a larger competition (a battle or an adventure) the students will spontaneously produce the knowledge you want them to have... along with a little bit of scientific curiosity too.

But, of course, you will have to tolerate a lot of failure in the process. There will be kids who discover how to make a stink bomb and that's all they will create for weeks. But, eventually they will either tire of it or figure out that it no longer works strategically as well as it used to, and they will try to find some other compound. Players learn from each other often. So, as long as players can see see what others are mixing/doing and the outcomes, they will try to figure out how to do the same. But, this is all premised upon drives of competition or emulation that really have nothing to do with chemistry.

Amadameus
Amadameus's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/10/2011
Format

Thank you so much for the helpful input!

The "okay fine I'll play your stupid game" response is what I want to avoid, if at all possible. The player's type of personality is probably going to play a large role in who likes the game, also. (Compare the stink-bomb making kid to the one who explores new combinations and tries to find the mechanics behind them, guess which one is going to be acing the class)

The real problem is that, in chemistry, practical situations like "What would happen if I dumped a bunch of ____ into ____ and ____?" can become incredibly hard. Most of the labs and demos that you see in classes are carefully constructed and chosen because they are the simplest and easiest to explain. Even the game I described is totally unrealistic - combining NaOH and HCl would be considered a "good" reaction in terms of points, however it's totally worthless as an industrial product.

Making the game fit actual industrial usage, however, would require insane amounts of detail and probably could not be effectively played by anyone without a PhD.

Making Things Explode
I'm dead certain that I could make a game with explosions, acid and fire. The kids would love it, but I'm hesitant to "cartoonize" something that's got as much depth as chemistry. It would be like turning Magic's carefully balanced red, blue, black, green, and white into a version of Rock-Paper-Scissors.

Direct competition is something that's missing from the "chemical fabrication" idea. Players get to sabotage each other, but they never get to actually blow each other up. Perhaps if I tossed out the entire "factory" concept and simply played it like a game of Magic?
--Corrosives (damage over time)
--Explosives (high initial damage)
--Flammables (???)
--Espionage (like a blue control deck)

Much, much more research is required. I'll be back soon with more thoughts on how this might be accomplished. Thanks again!

GitfaceryGames
Offline
Joined: 02/10/2011
From a chemist to a chemist,

From a chemist to a chemist, hear me out, good sir.

Well, what I'm seeing here from the people are... really not good ideas for a chemistry game. It totally pulls away from the game and makes it an educational laughingstock while not really making it fun and simultaneously making the theme pointless. This makes the teachers not like you, makes the gamers pass you by because it SOUNDS educational, and makes the entire reason for making a chemistry game, well, disappear. Remember, Darwinia was an awesome game because it was used the educational moral as a theme and didn't bludgeon you with education, but it was all based around the theme that they wanted to present. When stressed, you evolved or died. It was beautiful, elegant, and is the best example there is for a fantastic educational strategy game!

To make your chemistry game work, all you need is a better organization system! :D

Okay, so picture this. You have a primary status card (those who know me know I love these things!) with your boiler, mixers, centrifuges, mass spectrometers, whatever you want on that. For binary items (either you have them or you don't), a simple circle on the card on which you can slap a transparent disc to state to this world that I HAVE ONE OF THESE! would be sufficient. For the boiler and other such stepwise upgrades, I would suggest you have each upgrade on the card and allow the marker to slide down the list of better upgrades. This gives each player a quick and easy overview of their company's status. As a final note on this section, make every binary upgrade easy, while allowing yourself a bit more complexity with your boiler and other stepwise upgrades. Increased profits by X or X reduced time or ability to ignore X number of impurities (separation funnels?) are good binary upgrades.

For your cards, all you need is a good theme going. With each element, compound, or polyatomic ion in your hand, there should be a bunch of little symbols in the top right corner. Alright, so you have Chlorine. This can be the negative ion in a salt, so we have a (-) in the top right corner, cool. Also, it can be used in some covalent reactions, so let's slap a covalent (C) up there. If you want to stress electronegativity, you might not be going too far, but you might :P. For oxygen, you have covalent and combustion. For hydrocarbons, you have combustion. Furthermore, every card really ought to have a cash value on it. This shouldn't model the real world, but how hard it is to find a mate for it. If you plan on making acid/base reactions rare, make them worth money. People groan at the Q in Scrabble, but love it once it's played. You have a chance to do the same thing. For example, oxygen may be a gold mine in this game. If you don't have it, you can't combust. Period. Your options are to have lots of oxygen and make combustion easy or make one half of the combustion reaction worth a lot of money.

Anyway, giving a simple icon theme allows people who aren't gung-ho about education to get by and play an interesting little game, but will subconsciously implant the seed of what they're doing. Remember, people always learn. Always. Whether they want to or not. Your job is to make it so they don't realize it.

Make sure your ability to mess with the other players is robust. Backstabbing is a major part of nearly every good game and it would be a shame if you did not use it.

Good luck with the idea.

Better gaming through chemistry,
Gitface

cottonwoodhead
cottonwoodhead's picture
Offline
Joined: 03/02/2011
I think you should abstract

I think you should abstract things one level higher. You've said that mimicking the real industrial world would be too difficult so my suggestion is just to aviod the industrial process as much as possible. Either make it so certain combinations are worth more based on their rarity and difficulty, maybe add a pool of chemicals in the middle and some bidding to keep some competition, or make it direct competition like Magic with certain combinations of chemicals having certain effects and "battling it out" using the chemicals as weapons or some equivalent of creatures. I'm seventeen and at high school, I don't really like Chemistry but I would still like to play your game even if I didn't have to for the class, though I can't say that for all people my age. Just want to let you know that you're on the right track.

Yamahako
Offline
Joined: 12/01/2010
I'm *not* a chemist - but I

I'm *not* a chemist - but I do really like science :-)

I don't know what commercial interests there are for different kinds of compounds, but I think I have an idea for the structure of a game.

you have a randomized deck of base elements (Hydrogen, Oxygen, etc)

Players could "buy" random cards from this deck (or have another draw mechanic).

Then there could be a 'build' action - in which they could discard elements to make molecules (I think that's the right term). So for example, I could discard 2 hydrogen cards, and 1 oxygen card, and take a "water" from a pile and put it in front of me.

You score points by "buying" them. water isn't worth any points, but if you take Sodium, Chlorine, and water you can make a reaction that's worth a quantity of points.

If you want to add some "complications" to the game - you can add "chill" and "heat" cards to the game to change the states of matter - so that you could Chill (twice depending on whether or not you want to make what is done at room temperature matter) carbon dioxide (build by discarding 1 carbon and 2 oxygen cards) and then add magnesium to get a special reaction.

So if I was designing this room for classroom implementation - I would figure out how many groups of students were going to be competing and then Build a scoring board - divide up the different kinds of scoring into areas on the board - and each time you score a reaction - you place a tile on the appropriate section of the boards. Examples might be - Tricks (like Briggs-Rauscher reaction), Explosions, Products (like Sulfur Hexafluoride), and Transforms. Maybe have like 8 of each on the board. Once a section is full, further scoring in that area is 0 (after the 8th explosion, no more explosions score points). This gets the kids looking at other kind of applications of chemical reactions.

Once the board is full - the game is over.

Amadameus
Amadameus's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/10/2011
Update on Game Progress

Hello again everyone! Long time no post. I've been busy with exams and homework, but in the meantime I've developed a working model for the game that has been playtested a few times and seems to be working quite well.

The scenario has changed from "you are all industrial production companies" to "you are all in a big chemistry fight, try to melt each other" which really got my little cousins excited. Players can throw individual cards at others for damage, combine cards for more damage, build defensive walls or play special cards to hinder/help others.

There are four types of cards:

Acid-Base
These cards may be played alone for a moderate amount of damage over time. Acids and bases neutralize each other, which means that a player can toss a base on themselves to counter the damage of an acid attack, or vice versa.
Metal-Nonmetal
These cards are worthless alone, but when combined they form an ionic barrier which reduces incoming damage by 50%. It is washed away by the H2O produced in an acid-base neutralization, however.
Fuel-Oxidizer
These cards are worthless alone, but when combined they deal large amounts of damage instantly. They may also be played separately, for example two players may cooperate - one lays down gasoline, their partner lays down oxygen to form the complete combustion reaction.
Special
These cards play very much like Instant cards from Magic: The Gathering, they often interrupt or alter attacks. The catch is that no Special card may be played directly to the player's advantage, which encourages meddling in others' attacks and cooperation.

Things I have learned:
-----Acids and bases neutralizing each other helps protect players from taking too many forms of damage. Taking continuous acid damage stinks, but it also means that nobody can attack you with bases either.
-----The ionic walls are of the greatest help against combustion reactions, while only a neutralized Acid-Base combination can wash the walls away. This seems like a Rock-Paper-Scissors combo that works well.
-----The "50% off" of ionic walls means that damage should stay in even numbered forms - the first version used numbers like 25 and 15, which quickly became a decimal nightmare.

Things I am working on:
The first issue is that everyone wants to use Special cards for themselves. I want them to use them on each other, this way battle alliances are quickly made and broken - and the fights are much more exciting! (A simple I-hit-you-you-hit-me slugfest is much less interesting than the constant possibility of a third party jumping in)

Give me the gory details already!
Each player starts with 1000 hit points.

Here's the latest deck design:
100 cards in a deck
---34 Acids & Bases
---20 Fuels & Oxidizers
---30 Metals & Nonmetals
---16 Special Cards

Each damage class has one Acid and one Base:
10 dmg/turn for 5 turns
20 dmg/turn for 5 turns
30 dmg/turn for 5 turns
40 dmg/turn for 5 turns
...etc
150 dmg/turn for 5 turns
160 dmg/turn for 5 turns
170 dmg/turn for 5 turns
(Through playtesting I've found that changing the turn length doesn't affect much, this is simpler)
(The low-damage cards are held for neutralizing, the high-damage ones are used for attacking)
(Acids and Bases neutralize each other one-to-one, damage on the card has no effect)

Fuels deal instant damage, Oxidizers have no effect on damage(they act as a limiting factor in gameplay).
50 dmg
100 dmg
150 dmg
...etc
400 dmg
450 dmg
500 dmg
(It's remarkably tense to see someone toss an Oxidizer on an enemy and then let them stew on it, knowing they could be blown up at any time)
(Instant damage in large amounts is risky, it's possible to take someone down to half health in one attack - this makes the ionic barriers valuable and also makes meddling Special cards extremely valuable)

Metals and Nonmetals have no statistics, they simply combine one-to-one to form 50% damage reducers.
They are washed away by the neutralization of an acid and a base - IE, getting hit by an acid the player would take 50% of the damage until the time runs out and their barrier would still be there. Neutralizing the acid ends the damage but also washes away their barrier.

Special cards:
[Medkit] Target gains 500 hp.
[Zombie] Target is revived from death and has 250hp.
[Prepared] Target's max hand size is 12 instead of 7.
[Bodyguard] Target takes half the damage of the attack instead of its' intended recipient.
[Splash] Attack deals damage to players left and right as well.
[Catalyst] Attack deals 2x damage.
[Sabotage] Flip a coin. Heads, attack fails. Tails, attack deals damage to attacker instead.
[Spy] Target can spy on the hand of one player they choose.
[Thief] Target player steals a card from one player they choose.
[Decontamination] Wipe all physical cards off the board.
[Radiation] Attack deals an additional 30 dmg/turn for 5 turns. This extra damage is unblockable.
[Whoops] Target player takes damage from any Fuel-Oxidizer combos they have in hand.
[Ace in the Hole] Target player may search the discard deck and pull out one previously played Special card.
[Chemical Spill] Attack's damage is spread evenly across all players
[Crosswind] Any gaseous Fuels or Oxidizers on the field are blown away and discarded.
[Amnesia] Target player discards their entire hand and redraws. They lose "Prepared" if they have it.

Gameplay:
Everybody starts with 7 cards. At the beginning of their turn they may draw 2 cards but cannot end a turn with more than 7 cards. Each player is given only one reaction per turn. Special cards may be played as interrupts at any time. If cards run out but the game has not ended, two Special cards from the discard pile are removed from the game permanently, then the discard pile is shuffled into the draw pile.

Sorry to cut this short, I have class. What are your thoughts?

rcjames14
rcjames14's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/17/2010
Cool First Run

Amadameus wrote:
Sorry to cut this short, I have class. What are your thoughts?

So... I have to major questions:
Do they like to play it?
Do you think they are learning chemistry?

And, a set of corollary questions:
What do you think they like about it?
What more chemistry do you think you can add?

It sounds like you have built up a system which appeals to the audience you want to target. Explosions, fire, acids, attacks, defenses and neutralizers are very intuitive concepts to anyone who has played a combat game, which is increasingly gender neutral these days. Meanwhile, the large numbers are absolutely ridiculous for a Euro Game, but Yu-Gi-Oh has shown how people like to deal with digits in the hundreds and thousands more than ones in the dozens and single numbers. Of course, mechanically, it is just a matter of tacking on an extra zero... but somehow I don't think kids quite realize that or care.

What I'd like to know is how expandable you feel the game is? Are all the components so intimately tied to each other that it would be hard to add other chemical reactions, or do you think that you have built a framework which accommodates a wide range of other chemical reactions in the attack vs. defense equation. It would be cool if the components ( ---34 Acids & Bases ---20 Fuels & Oxidizers ---30 Metals & Nonmetals ) had a structure which would allow them to be added to other components to produce other reactions. For example, electrical attacks and magnetic defenses from current (oxidation / reduction) producing chemical reactions.

In my mind, I envision a variety of attacks and defenses being produced by card combinations. So... you don't just throw one card at another person, you throw two or three or four. Of course, the acid / base attacks may be one card combos... but they should be much less powerful than multi card attacks and defenses. Something like a geometrical progression to damage would be cool... so 1 card does 100 damage, 2 card combos tend to do 300 damage, 3 card combos tend to do 600 damage.

But would be really cool and good for expandability is if damage was procedurally generated. Rather than having a list of damage per combo, or restrictive combos... somehow adding methane and oxygen just caused a huge explosion because of the underlying property of the system. I say 'somehow' because this is where the design challenge comes in. How to formally capture chemistry in an elegant way. What is it about methane and oxygen that leads to lots of damage... but when you put methane with iron, you get nothing... other than that the teacher tells me this?

This to me would be the magic solution to your question. A design which captures the emergent properties of chemistry from simple rules without requiring a reference chart. It is just happens to be the property of each of the agents in the game design that certain things happen as they would in real life.

Unfortunately, I know enough about chemistry to know that this is a very tough challenge. I also believe that if something works, you shouldn't fix it. So, as long as you feel like your students are learning what you want them to learn and they are now more curious about chemistry, perhaps a game with fiat properties is sufficient.

As a game designer, I would try to create something more emergent, elegant and generalizable... but fun comes in many forms... so it really has to do with your goals and how well it is received.

In terms of your actual mechanics, I have two thoughts:

1. Treat attacks like sorceries and defenses like instants. I think people will always prefer to be able to respond to an attack quickly than have to anticipate it coming before it happens. Especially since there is not a lot of signalling in the game, I think having the ability to defensively respond might work well. You might also give players pre-emptive defenses which are stronger, but because everyone else knows what you can block with, might be less strategically value since they can be circumvented easier.

2. Depending upon how hard combos are to create, you might consider allowing people to 'refresh' their full hand size at the end of their turns. This will encourage players to attack with all their cards before their turn is over and to plan over the other players turns how to allocate their cards to defense and attack. In a game with a lot of players, you want players to think when it is other people's turns as much as you can... not when it is their turn. So... if you want a lot of action and you want it to be quick, you should only allow them to draw after they have played. This mechanism should also encourage players to combo together because, even if they don't have the combo themselves, they know they won't get penalized at the end of the turn for using the card.

Finally, your system needs to pay a lot of attention to balance. In this case, you have no 'cost' system, so each card is theoretically the same cost. As a result, each card needs to be equally valuable on average with all others. However, it is always the timing of card play in a hand management game that makes one card (circumstantially) better than another.

OdysseyDyse
OdysseyDyse's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/17/2011
magic

I like your observation, RCJames14, that the science we do today would have seemed like magic in the Dark Ages. That is where I would Theme this game. Transform you students into Alchemists or Sorcerers Apprentices by giving your game that flavor. Make it A Connecticut Yankee in King Aurthur's Court, where science is pitted against armor.

Amadameus
Amadameus's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/10/2011
Further Thoughts

Thanks so much for the feedback! Getting help and insight from people has been tremendously helpful in getting this game off the ground!

Do they like to play it?
Absolutely! I've playtested versions of the game with family and with friends, every time they enjoyed themselves and every time I learned more about how the game would best fit together.
Do you think they are learning chemistry?
Without a doubt. The advanced concepts are glossed over, but it made me so happy when I heard this:
"Aww, jeez, that lasagna gave me heartburn..."
"I play a BASE and NEUTRALIZE that acid!"

What do you think they like about it?
I think the game is easy to pick up at first with only a few primary actions, but differences in the cards make it possible for someone more experienced to still do better than a novice. That, and throwing acid on people is quite a visual image!

What more chemistry do you think you can add?
This is the big tension in the game for me - adding more chemistry makes it harder to learn and drives up the barrier to entry, but an incomplete system just nags at me and I think of how FUN it would be to add phase changes!

The nitty-gritty of it is that this game is aimed at freshman Physical Science and sophomore Chemistry classes. When I introduce this game into the classroom they will be just beginning to learn about hydroxide, hydronium, protonation and pH levels. I know how rewarding it is to play a game that challenges one's ability to adapt, however I don't want to leave kids behind. The purpose is to be fun, not to kick their butt or bury them in sheets of interactions.

Meanwhile, the large numbers are absolutely ridiculous for a Euro Game, but Yu-Gi-Oh has shown how people like to deal with digits in the hundreds and thousands more than ones in the dozens and single numbers. Of course, mechanically, it is just a matter of tacking on an extra zero... but somehow I don't think kids quite realize that or care.
The large numbers are also an allusion to scientific notation - it's not decided yet, but there's a chance that we'll be displaying the damage amounts in [u]1.5e3[/u] format instead of [u]1500[/u].

What I'd like to know is how expandable you feel the game is? Are all the components so intimately tied to each other that it would be hard to add other chemical reactions, or do you think that you have built a framework which accommodates a wide range of other chemical reactions in the attack vs. defense equation. It would be cool if the components ( ---34 Acids & Bases ---20 Fuels & Oxidizers ---30 Metals & Nonmetals ) had a structure which would allow them to be added to other components to produce other reactions. For example, electrical attacks and magnetic defenses from current (oxidation / reduction) producing chemical reactions.
Logistically it isn't hard to add more mechanics to the game - however, I'm worried about swamping the players in data overload. For game enthusiasts like us, a rich menagerie of attacks and defenses can give a game depth and replayability - but for the average freshman high school student, it's just more crap they have to learn before they can start playing the game. It's also more difficult to balance with more elements to consider - a simple set of 4 types can be playtested much more effectively.

In my mind, I envision a variety of attacks and defenses being produced by card combinations. So... you don't just throw one card at another person, you throw two or three or four. Of course, the acid / base attacks may be one card combos... but they should be much less powerful than multi card attacks and defenses. Something like a geometrical progression to damage would be cool... so 1 card does 100 damage, 2 card combos tend to do 300 damage, 3 card combos tend to do 600 damage.
This was the goal of Acid/Base in comparison to Combustion - a single card does small damage over time, but a two card combo can deal more damage, and instantly. Unfortunately, I'm still trying to balance this simple two-tier system, and introducing more combinations only makes my head spin.

This to me would be the magic solution to your question. A design which captures the emergent properties of chemistry from simple rules without requiring a reference chart. It is just happens to be the property of each of the agents in the game design that certain things happen as they would in real life.

Unfortunately, I know enough about chemistry to know that this is a very tough challenge. I also believe that if something works, you shouldn't fix it. So, as long as you feel like your students are learning what you want them to learn and they are now more curious about chemistry, perhaps a game with fiat properties is sufficient.
A beautiful, elegant system with emergent properties is certainly a goal - however, after a few different versions of the game playtested I despair of finding it. For example:
Oxygen can be a nonmetal for the purpose of forming Ionic Walls.
Oxygen can be an oxidizer to fuel a combustion reaction.
Oxygen is also very electronegative and could be a player in redox reactions (electrical damage)

In the real world, there are jillions of side reactions, varying levels of toxicity and heavily environment-dependent circumstances that could have dramatic effects on attacks or defenses. Gaining a wonderful level of depth is something I'd like to do, but it would be a challenge even for college-level players. For high school, I am going to obey the KISS law and leave a working game alone (for the most part).

1. Treat attacks like sorceries and defenses like instants. I think people will always prefer to be able to respond to an attack quickly than have to anticipate it coming before it happens. Especially since there is not a lot of signalling in the game, I think having the ability to defensively respond might work well. You might also give players pre-emptive defenses which are stronger, but because everyone else knows what you can block with, might be less strategically value since they can be circumvented easier.
I assume that "signalling" is advance notice of a player's actions or capabilities? Anyway, I actually had to reduce defensive abilities - in the first version, acids and bases neutralized each other immediately. The only way to deal any damage was with combustion attacks or hitting an enemy when they ran out of counters.
In version 2.0 the first damage 'tick' of an acid or base is dealt, even if the victim immediately lays down a counter card. This makes them more able to deal damage and brought the two types closer to balance. (An acid or base can be played as an instant to counter an attack of the opposite type)

Anyway! Preset defenses or environmental factors (imagine if certain reactions could be amplified or squelched by playing an "environment" card like High Humidity or Freezing Temperatures.) are very interesting and I'm still debating if I can bring them into the game or not. More playtesting will be required.

2. Depending upon how hard combos are to create, you might consider allowing people to 'refresh' their full hand size at the end of their turns. This will encourage players to attack with all their cards before their turn is over and to plan over the other players turns how to allocate their cards to defense and attack. In a game with a lot of players, you want players to think when it is other people's turns as much as you can... not when it is their turn. So... if you want a lot of action and you want it to be quick, you should only allow them to draw after they have played. This mechanism should also encourage players to combo together because, even if they don't have the combo themselves, they know they won't get penalized at the end of the turn for using the card.
Very good! I also want to encourage players to leave half-finished combos lying on the field, and leaving the draw phase until the end of the turn makes this much more likely.

Finally, your system needs to pay a lot of attention to balance. In this case, you have no 'cost' system, so each card is theoretically the same cost. As a result, each card needs to be equally valuable on average with all others. However, it is always the timing of card play in a hand management game that makes one card (circumstantially) better than another.
I'm a newbie to game balance and such, so I figured that the combo requirements and the counter-card effects would be enough to form a cost system - that leaves everything to timing and the other players. Is this unwise?

Thanks again!

rcjames14
rcjames14's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/17/2010
How To Do This

Amadameus wrote:

A beautiful, elegant system with emergent properties is certainly a goal - however, after a few different versions of the game playtested I despair of finding it. For example:

Oxygen can be a nonmetal for the purpose of forming Ionic Walls.
Oxygen can be an oxidizer to fuel a combustion reaction.
Oxygen is also very electronegative and could be a player in redox reactions (electrical damage)

In the real world, there are jillions of side reactions, varying levels of toxicity and heavily environment-dependent circumstances that could have dramatic effects on attacks or defenses. Gaining a wonderful level of depth is something I'd like to do, but it would be a challenge even for college-level players. For high school, I am going to obey the KISS law and leave a working game alone (for the most part).

I never under-estimate the ability for kids to pick up complex concepts in the course of competition. If they don't figure it out themselves, they frequently discover it by seeing someone else do it. So... I think you have a lot more room to work with here you than you realize.

But, it needs to be packaged correctly and you are absolutely correct about learning curves.

That is the reason that I was interested in whether you had constructed a framework which will allow you to introduce additional concepts through expansions. Once kids (or adults) become familiar with how the game works, you can also add more powers and more elements to the mix. Many competitive kids will actually like this because they will now suddenly have more ways they can defeat their opponents.

Of course, as we have seen with magic, this imposes an additional barrier to entry for incoming players. Magic is now so convoluted, it only survives on its existing player base. But, you are actually in a unique circumstance that magic wishes they could be in. Every year you have the opportunity to introduce the students to the game anew. You know where they start, where they are going and at what pace, so you can structure their competition with each other at a rate they can handle.

At the beginning, they will get a few basic concepts... but once they learn those, you can add more. If the game is structured to be expandable... you can actually structure it so that new powers/elements are added as students learn about them in class and you can always be sure that your students will have already taken the first steps necessary to understand them.

By making the classroom environment work for you... you can actually start simple and add a new step every week or two and end up with something really complex. But, this requires planning and a framework that would allow it.

Here's what I mean:
Imagine that cards are molecules.
Actions are reactions.
Players begin with a few molecules: the ones required to create the four reactions you specified: acid/base attack, neutralization, combustion and ionic bonding.
But, later on, those same molecules can be added to some other molecules to perform actions like oxidation/reduction, dipole-dipole bonding and hydrogen bonding.
Each of these actions would either be an attack or a defense function or both.
And, the actions could be performed either as an single turn attack, a multiturn/cooperative attack or a response depending upon some function of the molecules themselves.

In essence, what I'm saying here is that molecules react with each other in very many different ways and each of these reactions can be seen as producing either an attack or a defense and you might even be able to include an aspect of 'speed' depending upon the ease with which the reaction takes place (perhaps due to temperature or something else).

But, all of these things can be planned but not deployed at the beginning. At the beginning they just have oxygen and methane and hydrogen and a few other molecules and a list of four reactions they can make with them. These reactions could then be used as an attack or a defense, and it is up to the players to combine them in a certain group and at certain times to defeat each other.

But, this system relies upon having a mechanism on the cards themselves which makes it clear that adding oxygen and methane produces combustion (and how strong it is).

And, here's how I see you doing this:

Separate your molecules into primary reactants and secondary reactants. The primary reactants have information on them regarding what happens to them when they are mixed with secondary reactants. Secondary reactants would be things like water, oxygen and a number of metals which react with just about everything.

The primary reactant (if it was an acid) would display information like:
Combustion Oxidizer - 500 damage
Neutralization Base - Discard this card and the base card.

Whereas the secondary reactant (if it was oxygen) would display a temperature (to be introduced later), it's game related traits (acid/base, oxidizer, ionic, dipole, etc...) and flavor text.

When you put the primary reactant with the secondary reactant, some effect would either happen or not based upon the reaction on the primary reactants. So... in this case, oxygen being an oxidizer would make combustion and you could toss that 500 damage at someone else.

Do you see what I'm doing here?

Everything is combined with something to produce an effect. One side includes the degree of the effect, but it needs to be matched with a card with the trait that causes that effect. In this way, all chemical properties you want to include can be listed as traits on the secondary reactants and all the reactions you want to include can be listed as 'reactions' on the primary reactants.

The game can begin with just a few secondary reactants and the types of primary reactants you want to start off with (carefully selected from all the molecules to include only those which have one or two reactions). Later on, you can add more primary reactants and without changing the game... you can have new powers in the game. Now the oxygen can be combined to form reduction reactions (electricity) with the new primary reactants. Voila, new functionality with almost no additional overhead.

They don't need to learn a whole new set of rules, but simply extend the rules they are familiar with already to this new circumstance. Suddenly, they will look through all their secondary reactants and see what traits they have and with the introduction of one new card, you have them learning about the secondary reactants. That previous information that they ignored is now relevant and there are whole different ways to use them.

This requires that you know what you want to model beforehand though and place the traits on the secondary reactants from the start. The kids will ignore the ones that aren't relevant at first. But, they are still there for later when they become later in a new reaction.

This also requires that you choose your primary reactants carefully. So that you don't unbalance the game (and are true to science), you will want to choose secondary reactants that are common to most of the reactions that the kids will learn throughout the year and you will want to choose primary reactants that react to a limited number of things. They could even potentially react with each other... you would simply be treating them as secondary reactants. But, to avoid confusion though, I would avoid primary reactants that interact with each other.

In this sense the primary reactants will be the engine and the secondary reactants will be the fuel in the game. Each PR will be able to do a couple of different things with the SR and it will be up to the players to decide what to do with their SRs.

If I had a chemistry book on me, I might be able to describe this further by looking through the chapters for molecules which appear frequently throughout (SRs) and looking at the topics of each chapter (Reactions on the PR). I would then look through the molecules in each chapter and the appendix for PRs that create two or three reactions each with the list of SRs that I created and weed the list to make sure that they don't interact with each other.

Then I would divide the PRs into sets based upon the sequence of the chapters and I would take the first set of PRs and the whole set of SRs and make the game. I would label each SR with all its chemical properties and all the game related traits in bold and I would take the reactions covered in the chapters, put them on the PRs and figure out what kind of effect they produce - damage... if so, how much? protection... if so, how much? elimination... if so, what? card draw... if so, how much? and other aspects of a fighting game... perhaps there would also be a speed (if you wanted to include 'instants' that comes from mixing two reactants at a higher temperature or higher pressure).

I'm not sure how you would handle solvents, but I can already see the possibility of including catalysts as cards that produce an effect (with two other reactants: PRs and/or SRs) and return to your hand (rather than being used up).

This open ended framework would then allow you to introduce new reactions later just by adding more PR cards to the mix. And, in the process, get your kids to use the chemistry they are learning this month in the game along with all the other reactions that they are already familiar with. This incremental approach could in the end make them all intimately familiar with a whole vast swarm of chemical reactions and appreciate the complexity of chemistry. And... if you're lucky... also get them curious enough to start asking about the types of reactions that aren't modeled.

In fact, at the end of the course, I might even contemplate giving them a team project to create a new card for the game for next year's class.

Amadameus
Amadameus's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/10/2011
The game has been finished

The game has been finished and played! It was a huge success.

Most of the tripping-up people had were in learning the rules, and in the fact that I'd set the class into groups of 3 or 4. The first round took quite a bit of "yes this is how you play that card" and "no you can't do that, that's not a metal" but subsequent rounds went much faster.

All the cards were the last ones I described in the thread, used with the numbers I described, although I ended up omitting a few special cards and tossing in a few. (My favorite: "Aluminum Linoleum" Target attack fails unless attacking player can say the reaction five times fast without mistake.)

The entire thing was done in numbers for quite some time, although no cards were actually written until 10PM the night before - I finished the deck at 4AM the day of the game, and aside from a few rough edges and some poor penmanship it looks good! :)

I'm going to revisit a few cards, correct a few spelling errors and make it look pretty, then laminate them. While I consider this a smashing success, my next goal is to tweak the game system and see if I can't build a more robust deck with "booster packs" for further development in the curriculum.

If anyone's interested I can throw up a few photos of the mostly-finished deck...?

rcjames14
rcjames14's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/17/2010
Next Steps

Awesome. Congratulations.

Amadameus wrote:

While I consider this a smashing success, my next goal is to tweak the game system and see if I can't build a more robust deck with "booster packs" for further development in the curriculum.

If you'd like to discuss how to implement a more expandable version of the game, send me a PM and we'll take this topic to email. As you can guess from the previous posts, I have a few ideas for how this would be done. But I'm also very interested in games as designed learning tools. So, I'd love to work on this idea some more and get it to a point where you may be able to include a full year's worth of curriculum into an elegant and fun design.

Syndicate content


forum | by Dr. Radut