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Fantasy Grid Game

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RGaffney
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So I'm experimenting with games to help affect positive social change. But in order to do that, I realize I need to figure out how to make good games first.

So working on a game set in a fantasy universe. This one probably won't free any slaves but it's designed to do two things. (1) tell you something about yourself and your friends by allowing you to assume an avatar that has significance to your personality type. and (2) Break down the "zero sum" paradigm that says for me to win everybody else has to lose.

In this game I want your goals to be determined by your avatar. Some avatars have goals that align with others, some conflict, and some hardly affect one another.

There are 9 Characters to choose from, You may recognize that they are based on the 9 alignments from DnD

The Paladin:
Goal is to Rescue the Princess
Low Range, High Damage
Cannot bring himself to kill

The Wizard:
Goal is to Kill the Dragon
High Range, Low Speed

The Druid:
Goal is to gain control over his wild side (find maturity)
Has animal form with very high speed.

The Cleric:
Goal is to help all other characters
healing ability
cannot heal self

The Faerie:
Goal is to cause mischief
Creates storms to move characters to undesirable places
Can warp himself out of danger this way

The Rogue:
Goal is to make money
High speed
Pickpockets half money by running through people

The Wraith:
Goal is to usurp the King and Kill the Princess

The Barbarian:
Goal is to kill everyone
Medium-low Range, Medium-high Damage medium High HP
Charge attack when someone is straight ahead at full range

The King: (who's true form is "The Dragon")
Goal is to protect the princess, and survive
Dragon has very high HP and range

As far as mechanics, I'm picturing a chessboard with a rook at B2 and G7 (The King's Dark Castle, and the Paladin's White Castle) I'm not sure how the characters should move, whether on the squares or on the lines.

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Problems right now:
I'm not sure about fighting mechanics. I want to make fights fun, and counting hit-points doesn't sound fun to me in this context

The Druid's goal is vague, I like where it sits thematically (it's a classic fantasy plot) but i don't know exactly how it should work in game I figure he starts as a wolf/bear and has to see the cleric to gain the ability to switch at will, but then what... that's a real easy quest if you just have to see the cleric who is trying to help people anyway! maybe a quest for a MacGuffin?

Because of the way the quests interact, all 9 characters really need to be in the game every time. but I cant count on always having exactly 9 players so I need to find some way for NPCs to "play themselves" maybe with a deck or cards or something.

Cogentesque
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Looking good, love the theme

Looking good, love the theme so far Ryan,

First problem of designing a game: Design the game! hehe - I am in the same position myself. starting with a chessboard is a good start, but remember that this does NOT restrict you to traditional chess style functions.

On very initial thoughts, I would probably try (first of all) with rotation on the chessboard? Perhaps each piece has a "facing" and can only interact with things directly in front of it. This would enable each portion of the overall quest "eg Speak to the druid to find out about youreself" to involve a puzzle mechanic, say if you were the Rogue, you could only move in a described set of patterns (perhaps a traditional knight like L but with a 90degree facing turn at the end) in which case players would need to puzzle about how to get to the best place with as few moves as possible - this would be made even more complex with other players charactes moving as well. sets of characters would do well to want to seek eachother out - making two players co-operate in meeting on the board - perhaps there's a good base to start from?

What I would also say in fitting with your theme is to name each character giving an even more fitting theme to each of them eg:

The Paladin "Sebastian the Saviour"
The Wizard "The Dread Merciless"
The Cleric "Lady Prudence Blessed"

-You would need to spend a while refining them but you get the idea :)

With the above, if the theme is not obviously tied in with religion you may well attract a larger part of the "hardcore" gaming community. I have a friend that sniffs his nose at any game with abrahamic religious references. But at the same time, tenants, charity, justice. forgiveness etc are all very good tried and tested thematic elements so do make the most of them.

Hope I've helped,

Cog

RGaffney
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I had thought about the

I had thought about the facing thing as well. I'm glad to hear there is some support for that from someone more experienced with it. I'll noodle on it and bring something back.

As to character names/ backgrounds: Yes! Yes exactly. There will be a background and a thematic story that delvs into each characters motivations. I just didn't want to share it here because the mechanics aren't done yet and they are subject to change. I didn't want to get into TLDR territory.

Regarding religion. I'm a Christian. and as such I like things like truth, justice, forgiveness, ending poverty, freeing slaves, loving one another, and playing games that are fun. I am not a big fan of judging, condemning, and browbeating people with my religion. Believe me when I say I am much more offended than you are when a christian takes a good, fun game, and makes an explicitly christian rip-off as if name-dropping was more important to God than integrity.

Cogentesque
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Spot on, that's exactly what

Spot on, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. I think you should really make the most of the ideals you gave. Truth, justice etc - make it obvious that each avatar is a manifestation of each of these philosophies - I think that would make for a very interesting game as well.

Each character must be rewarded when it is played correctly as well. If you play as "Freedom" or "The Warrior: Arthur of the Keys" then you must make sure that freeing people from bonds or very awkward sticky positional situations within the game, that he must be duely rewarded.

Likewise for the desctructor and the healer - make it intrinsically part of the whole game experience that you MUST embody your avatar in order to "win" (as in, have the "winning" feeling, not necasarrliy win vs lose as you previously said)

Interesting idea just occured: how about having each player have to rotate in avatars throughout the game? Turn 1 I am Peace and you are War, turn 2 you are war and I am peace - this doesn't then harbour any kind of "I only like playing "Evil" because I can blow stuff up and I only like doing that" and will make players have to realise that their avatar is different every turn to allow them to understand the differences in the underpinning principles.

It would make for a very interesting game, and also it would be relatively easy to engineer a game ending situation where everyone does not either win or lose. Perhaps this game "Charity" wins, next game "Suffering" wins - would be interesting to balance the "win points" but sounds like it could be a cool idea :o)

bonsaigames
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Fantasy Grid Gamer

I've never been a big fan of using the chess board for games other than checkers / chess, but you got my wheels spinning about this idea so I made this (VERY rough) sketch of what the board might look like.

http://www.bgdf.com/node/5357

Of course, this only asks more questions; How does money work? How does movement work? How does combat work? Obviously the goals would have to be refined and the traits of each piece fleshed out to make this a real game, but I like the theme and the idea that multiple players could win simultaneously.

Cogentesque
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Levi you're such a damned pro

Levi you're such a damned pro :P

looks ace mate :)

RGaffney
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Great Stuff

Wow, I'm really glad to have such a cogent response after only a day.

concerning the question that was asked about Money. The way I currently have it envisioned is that each character starts with an item that has a use, and a cash value (so the Knight has a sword, the King has a crown) and those things can be sold or traded in-game

It is a problem that Money is really not important to anybody but the Rogue (Why am I upset when you steal from me if I don't need money to win?) but I think it's pretty easily resolved with even a small amount of weapons variance.

That also opens up the door to some very unique play styles. For instance, maybe I'm the rogue, and I come upon some golden opportunity, the Faerie has warped the king away from his castle, so I rescue the princess! Well that may not help me directly, but now I can offer the Knight a trade, he can have the princess if he sells that shiny sword of his and gives me the profits. Yadda

PS: I'm not married to the chess board. I just have one here and it's easy for me to visualize until the mechanics of the universe encourage me to change it

RGaffney
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I've decided I like the idea

I've decided I like the idea of moving on lines rather than squares. It makes the game board a little bigger. I also like the chessboard, because it will allow me to make this game more practical to give away for free (use parts you already own)

I have a prototype image. can somebody tell me how to share it. I'm new to the forum

bonsaigames
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Create

Create A...
- Image

Over on the left of the screen under Content.
Then you copy the URL and paste it into your post.

There's also a way to embed it, but that uses html I believe.

RGaffney
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Thanks

Here we go

http://www.bgdf.com/node/5368

Contesteque, I am thinking, rather than changing characters artificially, I;ll let the characters organically morph into one another. What is a Palidin that has successfully rescued the princess and returned to his castle but another king, bent on protecting his castle and his princess?

What does the Wraith become once the land is freed from monarchy? Maybe he finds himself much like the Druid, looking for meaning in a strange world of his dreams.

etc etc...

Cogentesque
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RGaffney wrote:Wow, I'm

RGaffney wrote:
Wow, I'm really glad to have such a cogent response after only a day.

Cogent-ESQUE response ;)

Yeah cool, the morphing aspect of it sounds good so what might be good to help visualise all future mechanics is to have a big diagram or wheel. In each section of it is one of your characters. Between each character draw an arrow and tell me what must happen for my Rogue to turn into a King and tell me what changes for me as a player of a boardgame when it does happen. That way each avatar can essentially be interchangeable which puts everyone on a nice even playingfield. Perhaps even when another player morphs into a different avatar (via challenges or something) then every player must change their avatar respectively - you cannot have any more than one "justice" or "war". And so as soon as one turns into the other, they get a bonus of game points and then everyone shifts around - this would then make your game like a race to shift as many times as you can and make the most of your own circumstance while making sure you keep an eye on the rest of the board.

"I am "War" but that other player "Charity" over there is about to start a war between two kingdoms, he will then become "War" and it will kick me to {consult the wheel} to be "Freedom". Hmm there is no way I can stop him, I might just start working on the "Freedom" goals to get points for when I change next round."

Maybe?

bonsaigames
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Walls & Shifting Goals

You mentioned on the image page about adding walls. I think this is a great idea and another feature that can be bypassed / altered by the players.

The issue with shifting goals you have to be careful with is that the game doesn't seem like it will go on forever with people changing characters. A great example of this is Smallword. This is a game that makes you change your civ as you go, but rewards you for intelligent / strategic play from one civ to the next. If you haven't seen it, check it out it will likely inspire you in this area.

RGaffney
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Well help me with this

Well help me with this guys.

I'm not sure I like the wheel, because I'm not sure everyone turns into exactly one additional thing.

The rogue for instance... how would the rogue ever accomplish its goal of "get more money" and when it does, what does it's new goal become? Maybe you can think of something I can't, but everything i am thinking of is very ad hoc and unnatural.

The Paladin becoming King though, that's organic and fits within the gameplay as well as the classic lore of high fantasy. It also doesn't contribute to what bonsai was saying with a cyclically endless game. This way it can be said "Alright, you got the princess, you won! but remember there is still a Wraith out to kill her and your friends still have objectives they're working on"

Either way though it makes sense to brainstorm what these different characters might become after their goals are accomplished.

We don't know exactly what the druid is going to accomplished originally, so I'm not sure about after.

the cleric and the fairy never seem done, so they might be "final destination" positions

The King, from a practical standpoint would want the princess back, transfering him essentially into a palidin goal wise. From a Lore standpoint, the young man becomes a knight and overthrows the king with the help of the old wizard, so it would fit for the king to become the wizard.

And the berserker?... I got nuthing

Bonsai, do you have any ideas about the walls? where should they be? how should they work? Maybe Wraith and Fairy ignore them? Could one of the characters control them and move them?... Maybe they don't exist at start but someone is making them...

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