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Love Mode Version Up! A harem anime/dating sim-based card game

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ConMan
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Joined: 03/22/2012

This is game idea I have worked out, but not yet playtested (or even finished working out all the cards that might be involved). I'd love people to share their thoughts, particularly on some of the ideas I mention at the end.

For those who aren't familiar with the theme, dating sims and harem animes are generally typified by a single male protagonist (usually teenaged, of course) surrounded by a number of female characters, most of whom are potential love interests.

In LMVU (a working title until I find something a little shorter that still has that Engrish feel), players take on the role of one of the girls looking to snag The Guy (who will probably be given a suitably bland name). Each player starts with a Character card and a hand of six cards, while the table starts with a Scene card, with The Guy at the scene. Each turn, players draw 2 cards and play up to 3, with the aim of collecting enough Heart Points to play a Confession. At the end of a your turn, discard down to 8 if necessary.

The general types of cards are:
Confession - Probably all the same, play if you have 8 Heart Points and your Character and The Guy are alone together to win.

Scene - Can be Indoor or Outdoor, Day or Night. When you play a new Scene, discard the old one and move all characters out of the Scene. You can choose for either or both of your own Character and The Guy to enter the Scene.

Hearts - If your Character and The Guy are both at the Scene, play for Heart Points. Each Heart card has 1-3 HP on it, with the 3HP cards usually requiring some special situation to play - e.g. must be at a particular Scene, or characters must be alone together.

Events - Come in three types, represent "plot events" to help your own Character or hinder others.

Normal Events - Play, resolve, discard.
Lasting Events - Stay in play until some condition is met - e.g. "Butt Out!" - All Characters except yours and The Guy leave the Scene. While this is in play, no Characters may enter the Scene. You may not Confess this turn. At the start of your next turn or when the Scene changes, discard.
Sudden Events - Reaction cards that usually cancel a card just played, particularly Heart and Confession cards.

Other random rules and thoughts:
At the start of your turn, your Character can enter the Scene. I don't think there's a huge need for allowing Characters to leave the Scene without changing it.

I have it as playing 3 cards per turn, but I'm wondering whether to specifically make it that you can play 1 Scene, 1 Heart or Confession and 1 Event card, possibly in any order. This would help in stopping people from spamming Hearts followed by a Confession too early or playing a bunch of Events that mess everything up.

Given that there will be a fixed number of Heart cards in the deck, I'm wondering whether the requirement for Confessing should vary depending on the number of players - at the moment, I don't have many cards designed to destroy a player's existing Heart Points, so there should be enough Heart cards in the deck that everyone has a chance of getting enough without one player locking the others out.

I'm also considering whether to include a rule that says if you empty your hand by the end of your turn, you get to draw extra cards at the start of your next. While this may become more difficult with a "Play 1 Scene 1 Heart/Confession 1 Event" rule, it would also further encourage players to do as much as they can in a turn.

SlyBlu7
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Joined: 03/15/2012
Sounds fun. Although, I

Sounds fun. Although, I don't know what kind of reception you're going to end up with - you're obviously going to have a Shoujo theme going on at *best*, which typically attracts more of the female crowd... who typically aren't gamers. Males are usually interested in the electronic harem games because of the wonderful visuals/soft-core-porn rather than the actual gameplay. Now you're asking them to play as the girls, making sexual advances on a guy... it's got a weird meta (obviously I'm a heterosexual male, so my opinion is biased but represents probably 90%+ of the gaming market).

If you downplay it to a comedic level and almost make mockeries out of the girls, it could be pretty funny. Pick on all of the cliches and tropes that always pop up in these games, and instead of making the guy the one going out looking for love, make him the hapless target of these girl's attentions - maybe have cards that actually penalize the players for "coming on too strong" (meaning of course, bombarding him with sappy love-letters and provocative img-msgs). Maybe even have a special 'One Night Stand' card that can be played in reaction to any "confession" card, automatically costing the girl a few hearts and forcing the game to continue on for a few more turns. Heck, you could even make that card a particular win condition for one of the female characters (there's always that "consolation win" that you get when you don't get to keep anyone from your harem but still get teh pronz).

Alternatively, you could just change the theme to be several males vying for a female's attention at a bar. In fact, I think that would be almost *more* hilarious.

ConMan
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That's an interesting take on

That's an interesting take on it, particularly your suggestion of a theme change. Unfortunately, I'm more wed to the theme than the actual design of the game, but I agree that the alternative theme has some merit too.

Certainly I'm not aiming at a big market - this is more the kind of thing that, if I get it nicely printed, I might try to get included on a club's table at anime/pop culture cons for a modest profit, not sold at all good gaming stores near you. I think you underestimate the market a little, though, because I think there's a good overlap between "anime-liking girl" and "board game-playing girl", particularly within the subset of "person who can laugh at the silliness of something they like".

You did get it right that it's meant to be fairly silly - it's going to be based more on the wacky examples of the genre like Love Hina, so lots of slapstick comedy stuff. I like your suggestion of some kind of "Freak Out" on behalf of The Guy who's getting too many love letters and chocolates, maybe an "everyone discards a card from their Heart Pile" or something. I do want to keep it in the fun, silly, PG area of things, so probably won't have anything like a One Night Stand.

Thanks for the initial feedback!

MarkKreitler
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Second opinion

Hey Conman,

Like SlyBlu7, I like the theme. I also agree that it's got a strange meta component in that the players are girls trying to win the guy. Given the high proportion of male gamers, the theme seems skewed relative to the likely audience.

Since harem anime/manga/erogames tap into the common fantasy of having many possible sex partners, the current arrangement runs against type. It would make more sense to me if:

a) I was trying to collect the best possible harem, or
b) I was one of a harem of men trying to win the heart of the girl (similar to Sly's suggestion for an alternate theme, but still grounded in manga tradition).

None of the above commentary is very important, since themes can come and go provided the mechanics work well.

Given your description of the game mechanics, it feels like you would be able to reproduce the feel of a dating sim fairly well. The question in my mind is, "do those mechanics translate from a single-player video game to a multiplayer board game?"

The answer is probably a qualified "yes," -- the qualifications relating to the simplicity and depth of the chosen rules. In general, I like your direction: scenes, heart points, various types of events -- but I don't see detailed mechanics, so the whole thing feels like a "take that!" game. Again, nothing wrong with that -- I've designed a few of those myself -- but I've noticed that these games don't get much replay once the initial "newness" wears off.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I could see your design working well or not so well -- it's hard to judge based on the level of detail you describe. I certainly would give it a whirl, though, as I've read my share of manga *ahem*.

Finally, if you haven't looked at this game:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2472/grave-robbers-from-outer-space

(or its sequel), you might want to. It has a many similar design goals. I own a copy but have only played it a few times because it emphasizes theme and "experience" over mechanics. It's still fun with the right crowd, though!

ConMan
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Hi Mark, Thanks for both the

Hi Mark,

Thanks for both the feedback and the pointer to Grave Robbers. I am definitely aiming for a game that is relatively light, where you can knock over a game or two in a lunch break. I think so far I've described most of the rules, so the only part of the mechanics I haven't covered in detail is the cards themselves. Should I post a few samples of the ones I've worked out so far?

MarkKreitler
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Yes, please!

> Should I post a few samples of the ones I've worked out so far?

That would be great!

Thanks.

M.

Avianfoo
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Suggestions

Love the idea. Though I have to agree that it would appeal more to the target audience (guys!) to collect a better harem than the other guys harem. Course the cards would have to be wonderfully illustrated anime-style with gorgeous females of all types.

Also here is a working title name change suggestion: Love Ultra Version Up! ...yes... the acronym is LUV U! Just the response you want from those harem babes. :D

MarkKreitler
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Just Right

+1 LUV U

SlyBlu7
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Another +1 to LUV U For even

Another +1 to LUV U
For even more style points, you could set the entire game in a University, so that it's
"Love You" or
"Love U[niversity]" or
crazy acronym.

As far as mechanics -

Players each have a character card with a 2 or 3 basic stats (stats are always part of a harem game after all). Different scenes will benefit different stats, and you can get equipment that will raise or lower different stats over the course of the game.

The players all share a deck. At the start of the game, players draw a hand of X cards. Then turn over 2 cards for every player in the game (3 player game, 6 cards). These cards are available for everyone to buy into their hands. Certain event cards might come into play as soon as they are revealed, representing the guy's actions or uncontrollable events (major test at school, boy gets broken arm, etc).

On their own turns, players can draw a card from the deck (although this could cause some design problems). They can then buy cards from the stack in the center. There are two different card values, one is a single card, letting you swap 1:1 from your hand. The other is a major card, which requires 2 cards be discarded from your hand to buy it. Whenever a player buys a card, the pool shifts to fill that space. If a new scene is the first card in the pool, it becomes active now. Players can also play cards from their hands during their turn.

When a card is played, it is removed from the game entirely. If the players run out of cards in the deck without one of the girls successfully confessing, the game ends - the guy has lost interest in all the girls or the school year is over etc.

Yeah, it's a light-hearted basher, it should be a quick game to play, but hey - it should be pretty fun. Just make sure that you get the art right - bright and colorful, with lots of pics of the girls.

Palindrome
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Joined: 04/14/2012
Interesting

Hey Conman,
As others have stated, you have some fun ideas going on. Your posted topic interests me because I'm sort of designing the same type of game. However, I'm going in the opposite direction in that I want to make a deep, highly-customizable design, that can be played over and over without becoming overly repetitive. It'll actually be a story-based game which can cover a variety of genres, but I'm starting off with the dating-sim/harem setup to begin with. My vision is to be able to play using any character card and have all character cards be genre-free so that a dating sim character could be inserted into a survival horror setup, for example. Of course, that character would most likely get slaughtered, but that's what I'm shooting for - having part of the fun coming directly from those customization options. Solitaire, multi-player, lengthy sessions, or quick games... Trying to design something that has different modes to accommodate different tastes - again, going for that customization factor. Right now, my inspiration and design will revolve around Amagami, The World God Only Knows and Persona 3. Too lazy to write much more...

Anyway, I just wanted to give you a shout. Hopefully, we can share some good design ideas. Don't hesitate to ask if you are having any problems with some aspect of the genre.

ConMan
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So much good feedback! Thanks

So much good feedback! Thanks to everyone so far - I'm taking the level of response as a sign I'm not too far from the right track. In particular, I am definitely taking LUV U for the game name!

I'm looking at SlyBlu's suggestions for mechanics, and I reckon there are a few things in there I could take but I'm not yet sure which bits work best for the way I feel the game should play. One thing I'm toying with is the suggestion of having a "Bad Ending" if the cards run out. The advantages that I can see are that it fits in with the dating sim flavour, and puts a definite end-time on the game preventing it dragging (and the game length is then a function of the deck size). The main disadvantage, though, is that it allows for an "everybody loses" situation, which isn't quite so "happy" as the feel I'm going for - but which may not be a dealbreaker if it can be worded right. I'll keep thinking about that and your other suggestions.

As for the art, definitely "bright and colourful, with lots of pics of the girls". I also aim for it to be non-ecchi (i.e. G- to PG-rated) to keep with the target market - although there are probably plenty of people out there who would buy such a game just to ogle the artwork, I'd rather aim for the kind of people who want the art to be attractive and immersive, not distractingly sexualised. I'd consider Tanto Cuore to be the upper limit of such (the main maids aren't too bad, but the "Love" cards in that are pushing it).

ConMan
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I said I'd post some of the

I said I'd post some of the cards, so here they are - all were written with a very light game in mind, so they're pretty low on sophistication. If I introduce some of the more complicated mechanics discussed here, obviously there will have to be cards to reflect them :) This is just a sample, but hopefully it'll help get a feel for where I'm at. More creative names for some of the cards might be forthcoming eventually ;)

Scenes:
School Trip (Outside Day)
Karaoke Room (Inside Night)
Haunted Trail (Outside Night)

Heart cards:
Indirect Kiss - 1 HP
Apology - 1 HP, play for free if you had a card cancelled this turn
Valentine's Chocolates - 2 HP, play only at a Day scene
Intimate Chat - 2 HP

Events:
Embarassing Accident (Normal Event) - Choose another Character at the same Scene as you and The Guy. Discard a Heart card to discard one of their Heart cards.
Stunning Outfit (Lasting Event) - Play if your Character isn't in the Scene. She enters the Scene, and no other player can play a Heart card. Discard this when the Scene changes.
Suddenly Speechless (Sudden Event) - Cancel a Confession card. Return the card to its owners hand.
Airborne Punch (Sudden Event) - If your Character isn't in the Scene, she enters it. Cancel a Heart or Confession card. The Guy leaves the Scene (very quickly).
Crowd Scene (Sudden Event) - Play in response to a change of Scene. All Characters may enter the Scene.

It's already been suggested in a few forms, and it's something I hadn't pinned down, but I was considering whether all of the girls should be functionally identical, or if they should have special abilities/restrictions. Similarly, should all Confessions be the same, or could there be some that make more sense at a certain location (or that are easier to play under certain conditions)? Both of these would seem to add depth to the game, and obviously they could work well together (a Sporty character would probably find it easier to do things at the Sports Carnival, which may include confessing). I could even go so far as to have each character have a "Deep Dark Secret", randomly chosen, that adds an additional requirement for them to successfully confess - although then I have to make sure there aren't any particularly over- or under-powered combinations of character, secret and scene. Oh, what fun ;)

Palindrome
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Characters

ConMan wrote:

It's already been suggested in a few forms, and it's something I hadn't pinned down, but I was considering whether all of the girls should be functionally identical, or if they should have special abilities/restrictions.

This, of course, depends on how complex you want to make your game. If you want to make it extremely light, then make them theoretically the same, but then it will boil down to just getting a number of girls, with no preference for any particular one. If you want the art and those cards to matter, then you should differentiate them. Perhaps value each girl differently depending on how they play out. For example, a shy girl will be "resistant" to some of the cards you play to woo her, so it would be harder to get to the confession in this case. A jealous girl will provide negative effects if she discovers you with another girl, whether or not for romantic reasons. And it can get even crazier when you have girls who are paranoid, obsessive, or violent. Of course, there's also the other side of the spectrum which is sweet, romantic and cheerful. This is one of the aspects which I'm having the most trouble with in my own design. I keep wanting to make it as realistic as possible but in the end, am probably adding too many layers of complexity, which just ruins things...

SlyBlu7
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Palindrome - your ideas are

Palindrome - your ideas are cool, but remember that he's setting this game up to be all the players as GIRLS, going after a central GUY, just like in a harem anime. So I think he's talking about having "character cards" for each player. It seems like it would work - you'd have to think it through. I'd go with something concrete, like a "heart cards played under condition X are worth +Xpts each" with a con "You cannot Confess during condition Y". That way you can just set up a group of polar opposites:

Girl gets +2 to condition X, cannot confess under condition Y
Girl gets +2 to condition Y, cannot confess under condition Z
Girl gets +2 to condition Z, cannot confess under condition X
et-al

I definitely wouldn't do echi-style art on the cards. Maybe, JUST MAYBE make it a special-edition if you release on kickstarter, give the players alternate character cards with echi style art, since it's more like "soft core" and is usually still quite tasteful. But otherwise yeah, definitely play it clean so that you don't alienate anyone.

ConMan
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Palindrome wrote:This, of

Palindrome wrote:
This, of course, depends on how complex you want to make your game. If you want to make it extremely light, then make them theoretically the same, but then it will boil down to just getting a number of girls, with no preference for any particular one. If you want the art and those cards to matter, then you should differentiate them. Perhaps value each girl differently depending on how they play out. For example, a shy girl will be "resistant" to some of the cards you play to woo her, so it would be harder to get to the confession in this case. A jealous girl will provide negative effects if she discovers you with another girl, whether or not for romantic reasons. And it can get even crazier when you have girls who are paranoid, obsessive, or violent. Of course, there's also the other side of the spectrum which is sweet, romantic and cheerful. This is one of the aspects which I'm having the most trouble with in my own design. I keep wanting to make it as realistic as possible but in the end, am probably adding too many layers of complexity, which just ruins things...

Absolutely. I think that for my game I would probably have the girls have, at most, one special ability, and those abilities would be fairly straightforward - get to play one extra card of a certain type, or can Confess under certain circumstances for 1 HP less, and so forth. Remember, I'm still planning this as "play as one of the girls trying to get the same guy", so having different girls differentiates the player, not the target. That said, I agree that it does mean that the Character cards are something more than a bit of pretty artwork to place in a Scene if there's something that they do.

Palindrome
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Oops

Sorry, my mistake. Yes, you can't differentiate too much, but you can do something if you want to add a bit of variety, similar to what Arkham Horror (just as an example, but many games do it) does with their starting characters. Make it a random-draw starting character so that someone who always plays with a specific strategy has to adapt in order to win. Maybe a character that draws more cards than others, gets additional bonuses at certain locations, a character that excels in sabotaging other girls from getting to the guy. An interesting character could be a "moody" girl, who's great when things are going well, but messed up when things are... well, messed up... Probably give her a huge advantage or a huge disadvantage depending on certain conditions or maybe a 50-50 dice roll. That character would probably be a roller coaster, but extremely fun to play.

Avianfoo
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Abstraction

I realise this is off on a bit of a tangent but maybe there is something in here that you could use.

Lets assume a harem girl collecting game. The point of the game is to woo the girl (or guy or alien or whatver). How will that be done?

One way is to have each girl require a certain number of Heart Beats (*doki* *doki*) (aka hp). An hp is gained by playing any of the woo actions on the girl. Each girl is more susceptible to certain woo actions (chat, date, gift etc.) by default as defined by certain symbols on the girl card. Any actions not actively "wanted" by a girl could increase the hp by only 1 (how cute, you tried) while the more susceptible ones give a larger heart beat bonus. There could also be negative ones.

One way to have this change between games is to have a positive and negative card placed under the girl. These cards could be researched to find out what the girl likes. Research action could be offset by a woo action (playing a woo card next to the girl) and make money action (to buy gifts of course). After a round, the positive/negative cards under the girl is revealed, and if one player overcame the hp threshold (and has earned more hp than other players on that girl) gets the girl.

Another idea is that each girl collected could form part of your action deck, counting as a certain action type effectively helping you snag more girls (or not as the case may be).

If each round has more than one girl "available", and players only have X actions per round, how many girls can each player get? The player with the highest heart rating (most hp on all girls collected) wins. Course each girl as a unique ability which could be used as an action or make her more diffult to woo etc.

Back on topic: Is each player a single girl trying to collection a single guy throughout the game? Or is a single player multiple girls?

SlyBlu7
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Currently he has it set up

Currently he has it set up for girls (the players) trying to get 1 guy. Everyone is competing over the same target. It's sort of a reverse harem, and I like the way that it approaches the typical harem anime/game (with the guy buying present and trying to get together with several girls, or laughing at the antics of a guy who is constantly chased by adoring women) and instead gives you a chance to roleplay (dangerously strong word there) as one of those insane adoring girls.
This is going to be fun. How much further along in development are you?

ConMan
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Joined: 03/22/2012
SlyBlu's got it right - each

SlyBlu's got it right - each player takes on the role of a single girl, all after the same guy. It's probably more harem than dating sim in the sense that in a dating sim game most of the efforts are on the guy's part to win the girl, whereas in harem anime at least some of the girls are usually trying to attract the guy's attention, and his only role is to choose one of them. Think of, say, Ranma 1/2, where girls like Shampoo and Kodachi are actively chasing Ranma, others were caught up in Genma's habit of promising Ranma's hand in exchange for various things, and some (particularly Akane) were definitely interested but didn't necessarily show it well.

How far in development am I? Not really much further than I was with the initial post - the rules listed there, plus a list of cards I'd thought of (samples of which I gave a few posts back). I suppose at this point I'd like to give the game a couple of quick playtests to see what is currently working and what isn't, but things are a bit busy at the moment.

Palindrome
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Check this out

Hey ConMan,
You should check out this forum. Apparently, this person tried to design almost the same concept as you, harem anime card game where all the players are trying to compete for a single protagonist. The thread stops abruptly, about a year and a half ago, but maybe you can find some useful bits to incorporate into your own design.

http://www.fantasystrike.com/forums/index.php?threads/love-love-panic-ha...

Avianfoo
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Get the Guy!

I see. Less a harem and more a "get-the-guy" type of thing. Who is the target audience? I don't want to sound like a nay sayer, but this does seem to be rather niche. I do RP quite a bit, both genders, but I would find it a bit... uncomfortable playing this game. However I would have no problem playing a "collect the cute girl" game. Does that make me a bad person? :p
Have you thought about the adding a yaoi/yuri angle? guy amongst all the girls trying to attract the guys attention or having the target of everyone's affections being a girl? This is done in quite a few anime and mainstream games.

ConMan
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Palindrome wrote:Hey

Palindrome wrote:
Hey ConMan,
You should check out this forum. Apparently, this person tried to design almost the same concept as you, harem anime card game where all the players are trying to compete for a single protagonist. The thread stops abruptly, about a year and a half ago, but maybe you can find some useful bits to incorporate into your own design.

http://www.fantasystrike.com/forums/index.php?threads/love-love-panic-harem-anime-card-game.4122/


I do believe I found that thread the last time I was doing random Google searches on the topic. The funny thing is, I definitely had the initial idea long before that thread was posted, but never really got around to articulating it until recently. I agree there are some good ideas I could take from that.

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