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Ocd, reposting my tcg Idea (last post felt too messy).

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Tataku999
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Joined: 10/20/2015

Hey everyone, This is probably unnecessary, but I wanted to kinda refresh my post for my Trading card game.

We can do this two ways. I have, what I feel is a pretty solid, google doc, that I can have people look over, or I can post what I have put together. there are some things I am dead set on, the core play mechanics, then there are things I intend to use as a form of play testing in order to figure out if it will work or not, what I am saying is they are not set.

Note: numbers and stats are not set yet, my goal for getting a working model is to go with the lowest possible numbers.

This is a card game with RTS and MOBA game play in mind. Ive always enjoyed games Like these and wondered if there was a way to take it into the physical card realm.

the core gameplay (things I feel that they should be in the game):

definition:
Generals (using this term loosely, but just need something to refer to): these are your are your main character cards. they are not shuffled into your deck and are played at the start of your game. they contain: attack, hp, and skills.

main deck: the main deck contains resource and utility cards.

skill deck: this is a third deck that contains all the General's skills. They are not shuffled and are viewable by everyone. When you use a General's skill you may search this pile as needed to use the skill.

resource: these are cards that allow a player to use a General's skill. When played, all resource cards are placed in the center of the board (separated in two ways), and are accessible to players.

Lets talk about resource system:
all resources are placed in the center of the board. They are separated based on type, and also they are placed to each player doesn't mix up his or her cards with the opponent. so even though there there are two piles of resource A, it is still considered one pile of resource A.

How to control resources:
(still working on this part)
either a General or a summon card may be moved to the location of a resource, if the combined attack is greater than the opponents at that resource location, or what attack is currently there, then that player will take control. once the player moves his troops, the opponent has the chance to counter the players move and decide if they want to move more troops to keep the resource or steal it.

***One flaw I do not like for resource:
There is no strategy for you to move all your troops to one location, thus if both players only use one resource then the one player will be unable to take control. there must be a reason to not put all your troops in one location, or divide troops for this to be effective.

skills:
I think this is one of the most wanted part of this game. A system for combining skills. you overlay the skills by paying the total resource costs for both skills (or something else) and then it adds the damages or gives new skill effects. the main problem I have with this is that it limits the amount of skills used at once, because it would be difficult to have so many skill cards to carry around. with that said it would make it so the player would have to make a decision if they should play a skill now or wait to play combos.

Placing Generals: I think it would be cool do have a system where you have a point limit, such that you would place any number of Generals such that it would not exceed that point system. e.g. it could be based on total hp, where you would add up each Generals hp and it would be equal or less than a total hp. I want to turn this idea into almost a "draft mode".

Okay, 1) I have no ideas about a title... I would love help with some titles. 2) someone mentioned to not make it generic fantasy, I agree. But I have no idea what to make it, I've been thinking about space themed.

I would like a story or some lore or something. This is also something I am not good at.

I don't have anything set for utility cards, I feel like that will come once I start play testing.

Lastly I have that google doc set up so if anyone wants to join that to see everything I have, let me know.

I hope this repost will clear things up and make it easier to follow, the last one felt like a rough draft of my ideas.

designing cards will be my next step soon and I hope to post pictures of the process XD

Thanks everyone so much for all your help on trying to make this work out.

Taku

Tataku999
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Joined: 10/20/2015
Google doc

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-0eyFlOvoN8owBMY6IoK_vK3D_bAIJ6sJuAy...

for the doc if anyone wants to peek at it. Its a working thing, trying to break down and formulate ideas for mechanics and my attempt to check out every possibility.

questccg
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Try NOT to create a CCG/TCG

The best advice I can give you is NOT to create a CCG/TCG. Why? Because contrary to everything you know about Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh! and Magic: The Gathering, it is VERY, VERY hard to gain traction in the game market.

Those LARGE players are EXCEPTIONS to the rule. Just because they are popular people think: "I'll design a TCG and do like those other games..."

Not TRUE. And I have experienced it FIRST hand with my 1st game "Quest Adventure Cards(tm)". While I made a bunch of first time mistakes, the biggest was probably not selling the game as a WHOLE.

That's right, your BEST bet at making a game is to well, MAKE A GAME. If you want to design expansions that's okay too... But make sure the 1st product you put out there, call it the First Edition (or whatever), that the product is a game people can play (out-of-the-box).

I know by experience and from other designers - this is a mistake newcomers often make. Just because everything you see out there are CCGs or TCGs doesn't mean your game will fit into that category.

Making a STAND-ALONE game is your BEST bet for SUCCESS!

Just some free advice...

Note: Or you can be like Stormyknight1976 and CREATE a "Game Universe" with thousands of creatures! But he's special... I think his goal is to get published his "Game Universe" not just a game. He is writing stories that go along with his game... Which is very cool and unique to his particular situation. Like I said - best bet is to create something that is stand-alone (out-of-the-box)...

markgrafn
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I don't know much, but it

I don't know much, but it seems that TCG distribution model is the devil that everyone seems to fear. Which makes sense as I don't like that model as a consumer. I think what White Wizards did with Epic is great distribution model, too bad I don't like the game at all.

I too am developing a Customizable Deck Game (tcg) and although I don't know what distribution model to use, Epic or LCG or something else Im not worried about all the "don't make tcg" advice. My game though, is FAR from being close to prototype, stI'll formulating things.

Tataku999
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Joined: 10/20/2015
yo thanks for the input, what

yo thanks for the input, what about turning it into like settlers type game? is that a good fit?

questccg
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Anything but CCGs/TCGs

You have alternatives such as LCGs (Living Card Games) which is Copyrighted by Fantasy Flight Group (FFG) and what it means is you get a BASE SET of the game. Then the manufacturer is free to create CARD EXPANSIONS over the original game. They can also create NEW BASE SETs.

That's great too - except you cannot use the term LCG.

But you can use the distribution model all you want... Settlers was designed as a Stand-Alone game. Other designers created EXPANSIONS for the original game... So that's another alternative.

Just try to stick away from CCGs/TCGs. Unless you have very DEEP POCKETS... Maybe then you can make it.

Also MOST Publishers don't want anything to do with COLLECTIBLE distribution models. No publishers mean that you will need to sell it yourself - and how are you going to do that? A Kickstarter for X, Y, Z boosters? Going to be a HARD SELL...

radioactivemouse
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Card games...

There's a lot to consider when you decide to make a CCG.

-There's infinite possibilities when it comes to deck building which need to be tested...which a lot of time and man power. Design issues will abound if you're going to create something that's got that many possibilities.

-The CCG market is saturated with games from companies with a lot of money backing them up. Not only do they have the man power to test the game, they have top notch artists at their fingertips.

-It's going to take a lot of time and effort to organize the distribution model.

-You may (actually WILL) encounter fatal bugs that will force you to "ban" certain cards. With only one person designing the game, it's almost guaranteed it will happen.

-You will have to bring something completely new to the table. CCG's have been around for over 20 years, in order to stick out, you have to have something completely different and new...while making it simple and easy to learn. Even big companies have issues with this.

-In order to bring something new to the table, you will need to break away from some traditional card game mechanics. My card game has a mechanic that's not seen in any card game that I (or anyone else) know of and I have a time system that is thematic and new...I'm working my ass off just to get that game off the ground. It's just now taking off after months of work.

I'm not saying you should stay away from the CCG model, it's just that the times are different now than they were back in the 90s when CCG's were everywhere. These days, card games are starting to go the route of the LCG/static deck where the game is far easier to balance and players are not forced to buy multiple booster boxes to keep up. In addition, people can only commit to a few CCG's at a time and because Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh dominate the industry (with other juggernauts like the BushiRoad line of CCGs), your game will have to be at that level of quality in order to just compete.

My suggestion would be to create a card game with a mechanic that is expandable but start out small with a couple of decks. That way, you can judge the audience's reaction and balance accordingly while not overcommitting to something and waste a lot of time and effort.

ElKobold
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Tataku999 wrote: ***One flaw

Tataku999 wrote:

***One flaw I do not like for resource:
There is no strategy for you to move all your troops to one location, thus if both players only use one resource then the one player will be unable to take control. there must be a reason to not put all your troops in one location, or divide troops for this to be effective.

This one is relatively easy to fix. From the top of my head:

- Have cards which have their power increases with each location you contest.
- Have cards with 'aoe' powers, which damage the entire stack.
etc.
- Have a certain type of troops like 'elite' or something, only one unit of that type may be played at any one location.

Midnight_Carnival
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What is your intention?

It is possible to make a trading card game which - despite everybody saying things like the market is already cornered and there is no point and everything original is already done - which makes you a lot of money and which everybody loves and their great grand-children erect statues in your honor becasue of it; just like it is possible to pick up your guitar, start strumming it and sing a song which comes into your head and then upload it to youtube and end up with a $10000000 recrording contract. Possible, yes, likely? Hard to say, it depends as much on the fickle nature of what people you've never met find desirable at that point as it does on how much work you put into it!

So I'm asking you this: are you making this game as a way to make your your fortune and to become famous or are you making the game becasue it is fun to make games and because you'd like to play it?

I'm sure you would continue to work just as hard on the game if you realise that you are only making it for fun or becasue you're severely disappointed at the quality of trading card games around right now, but it would help with people posting comments if they knew if you were asking for help making a game work and also be fun to play, or if they were giving you advice on marketing and intelectual property laws, etc...
I find that there seems to be quite a bit of confusion around this on the new ideas forum at present.

questccg
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No point in keeping secrets

There is a stone cold reality about CCGs/TCGs that gamers are NOT aware of. The game stores (Brick & Mortar) have a "Love + Hate" relationship with these types of games.

Why, you ask?

It's rooted in the "root of all Evil": MONEY. What do you mean?!

I have had discussions with various store owners and store employees and they all tell me the SAME thing: the CCG/TCG business model is only good for the manufacturers.

Huh?!?!

Basically stores (and their owners) only make money once 60% of all boosters are sold from a box set. Owners hate that. It's like they have to invest $200.00 to buy a box and wait until the box sells out (2/3) before making a profit.

If you buy a booster at $2.00 and sell it for $3.50 (and there are 100 boosters to the box), you arrive at around 60%.

Meanwhile IF instead the store sold a "game" or "expansion", they would ONLY invest like $15.00 (of the MSRP is $30.00). And they make profit the minute the game is sold.

So you see the difference?

Unfortunately it is all about MONEY.

Same goes with the games designers make. Unless a store doesn't get multiple requests for a game, they won't stock it. If you go into a store and ask: "Can I buy game X?" If they don't carry it, they may tell you that they can check if they can order it. If a distributor doesn't have the game - you most probably won't be able to buy that game.

But if 10 people go to the same store and ALL ask for game X... The store might ask their distributor to order the game - because it seems to be a hot seller - something that people will want to play.

Again no one asking for your game = no sales = not in stores.

This is the *harsh* reality about games and the retail business.

questccg
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Almost forgot the LOVE part, hehehe

Store owners LOVE CCGs/TCGs because it attracts gamers into their stores.

That's the "Love" part. When a gamer comes to the store looking for Magic cards, the staff will probably converse with him to see what he likes. If he is only interested in FNM or Magic Tournaments, they can sell individual cards (for a deck) and make money that way.

They can also suggest NEW products that the gamer may like.

But that's the POSITIVE side, it DRIVES traffic to the store!

questccg
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Naive

When I started out in this business I was so "naive". My thinking was so far from reality, it's shows I had no clue how business was ran and how my game would have 0 impact in the gaming business.

This was "Quest Adventure Cards(tm)".

I thought: "All I have to do is MAKE the game and then negotiate a deal with some local distributor to sell my game to stores!"

Sounds smart, right?

That's not how business is done. As I have explained everything is based around DEMAND. If people ask for it by name, you maybe will see your game in stores. If nobody asks, don't expect a distributor to listen and agree to buy copies of your game.

Your game might be AMAZING. But lack of marketing, which costs a lot of money, makes for hard sells. If nobody knows about your game, nobody will resell it.

That's what Publishers do: they market your game with other games to distributors. And probably offer free shipping if the distributor orders minimum quantities of new and old product. And when I mean old, I mean repeat orders.

So IF you have a publisher, maybe your game might get bundled with another repeat order and your game might make it to some stores. Odds are, probably not the stores in your neighborhood but at least it stands a chance of making it to store shelves.

Worst case scenario, stores buy one copy... And stock it. If it sells they'll re-order another copy - and slowly but surely that's the way a game gains traction.

BTW if I am wrong about my dealings about the "Game Industry" please feel free to correct me. These are only my personal experiences and dealings with local people/owners from my place of residence. I could be wrong, other store owners may look for the NEWEST games, the stores nearby all sell the established games like "Ticket-To-Ride", "King of Tokyo", "Smallworld", "Pokemon", "Star Wars: Miniatures", "Warhammer 40k", etc.

It's one perspective among many - I suppose.

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