RTS board game

I don't know what to say...?

Turn based? I guess so. What else could it be?

Dice? Sure. I can't imagine Starcraft: The Boardgame as an eurogame. So lots of dice for an american style is a necessity.

Cards? Must have. Otherwise it's going to be really difficult to manage all those units and upgrades.

Grid? Maybe.

Timers? I don't follow.

I would think in order to make a real time strategy board game you would probably need 4-6 sand timers per player of various lengths of time to build units and buildings, i.e. think worker placement but with sand timers. And combat would have to be super simple and fast. Die rolling would be too slow. Something along the lines of high card wins or some kind of rock, paper, scissors system...

Just read your post a bit more closely and realized you meant real-time building phase followed by turn based combat phase. That would allow for more complicated combat if desired. It'd really be up to you. It'd be really cool if you somehow alternated real-time build phases with turn-based combat phases, repair/build units and buildings in real time and then do combat. Rinse repeat until there's only one man standing or some other objective is completed.

The game "Purge: Sins of Science" attempted to create a real-time strategy card game. It boasted having 3 factions, each with 2 kinds of generals to play that had differing play styles. I will admit, it was a valiant attempt but wildly confusing and all the units were incredibly unbalanced. Worst yet, there was a lot of micromanaging involved, so keeping track of stats was a pain. In regards to balance, one general allowed you to follow a turtle strategy that ended with you creating a super weapon that negated anything your opponent did, effectively neutering them and ending the game. Cool concept but really unfun to play.

Cryptozoic had a game from the franchise "Hawken". It was marketed as a real time card game that was essentially akin to the game War. At its core, its a risk-and-reward kind of game, forcing players to question whether committing to large attacks was better than continuously engaging your opponent with smaller attacks. The game was over when a player had to reshuffle their deck 3 times.

The reason why I point these 2 games out is because both tried to do something that board games are not known for: real time interactions. Taking a game like Starcraft (or any RTS in this case) would follow one of two directions: turn based gameplay with worker placement mechanics and phase completion or real time interactions. The former is relatively easy to do but would unfortunately feel flat, as many games do this. The core of an RTS is to essentially outwit and outplay your opponent during battle. To bring that same feeling of pressure, skill, and joy is an incredibly hard thing to do.

But i think it can be done.

Personally, I would focus on a card matching game with work placement for unit generation. I'd break the game into 3 phases: Scout/Gather, Build/Command, and Engage.

Each phase has infinite time but ends when a player grabs the so-called "End" token.

In the Scout/Gather Phase, you gain X amount of resources from resource nodes you control. In order to gain more resources, you must move (search) your resource deck by sacrificing units to uncover nodes and other things. Every player has a random shuffled deck, so no one can time when or where they'll find their resources.
In the Build/Command, you can pay cards to make buildings and units. Command means you can play special events you gather from your resource deck.
In engagement, players can fight one another. Whoever is successful in defeating the other person steal resource nodes, attack their base, etc. etc.

I guess the key to winning is knowing when to search, when to build, when to engage, and when to grab the End button. Grab it too early, you'll lose out on the chance for searching for more resources. Grab it to late and you'll end up giving your opponent an advantage. That said, I think this would only really be manageable with 2 players, maybe 3.

So ya. That's my take on it. Also, combat can be resolved with dice and modifiers. The more units you have, the more modifiers you get, the better chance of you winning. Of course, all units can have a special ability that will give you an edge, but hell, who knows.

This sounds as a rather interesting take on "real-time".
How did it work in playtesting?

The only RTS like game I've ever seen work is the Ares Project that came out a few years ago.

Overview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD7vrW-L-H8

4 very asymmetrical factions. Lots of choices. Multi use cards. Lots of different player abilities.

Big learning curve, but well done.

Having a REAL-TIME board game does NOT need "Sand Timers".

The simplest version is ROLL 1d6 = and if you roll a 6 the Unit is READY...

Of course units can have different "Completion Values" and can employ more than one (1) die. Using a Bell Curve, you can determine the probabilities for each unit ... and players are rolling d6s in REAL-TIME.

I would tend to be that this averages out - depending on the Units being built.

So to build a "Zergling" it's a "6" on one d6.
To build a "Hydralisk" it's a "10" or above using 2d6s.
To build a "Guardian" it's a "6" follow by "5" followed by "4" using 1d6.

You could build more such rules ... and figure out the ODDS that could lead to define a Average Number of Rolls (ANR) which could then determine the time taken, on Average, to roll such a sequence or number.

Something like this would create the ILLUSION of REAL-TIME since it is all tied to dice rolling and calculated ODDS.

I'm not approaching the WAR/COMBAT engine - just the BUILD aspect... Same could go with buildings too... All building could be handled using this simple dice rolling technique and would provide a seamless REAL-TIME build of your base/units...

That's my take on it!

After going back and re-reading the rules, the RTS element is simulated by restrictions.

You can only play one card on your turn. Play it face up to make it a building. Play it face down to make it a resource that will turn into a unit.

This simulates RTS in that you can play resources on a building that creates cheap units that can be deployed quickly or on a building that requires more resources to get one, more powerful unit.

You're choosing attack strategies similar to Starcraft. Do I zerg rush or do I go for a longer game with heavier units...

That's a good idea. I've seen sand timers work in a trading game called Time N Space.

https://boardgamegeek.com/video/31701/time-n-space/dice-tower-reviews-ti...

Everything you do requires a certain amount of time. Movement, generating resources, taking actions, research, etc...

To do an action, you place a 30 second sand timer on it, and when the sand runs out, you can take the action.

The thing is, you only have 2 sand timers, so you have to be efficient in the actions you take and when you take them.

For a RTS combat game, a player could play a card face down and put a timer on it. When the time is up, that building would be completed.

And a player could put a sand timer on a building, and when the time runs out, a unit is finished.

To keep things a little more fair, players could be required to play the face down card and timer where everyone could see, but when the time is up, the player could place the building face up behind a shield.

And when building a unit, a player could be required to have the timer in plain view, and when the time runs out, the unit card/token is placed behind the player's shield.

This would keep the fog of war in place.

Thoughts?

@Gabe

That is a good addition to the fog of war indeed. I like it.

The problem that we are left with, is that some units or structures are more expensive. In that case I recommend having parts to be build. A tank could cost 3 parts. And thus 3 timers. Since it is faced down. Other players don't know if you are building 3 smaller units or the big one.

If a battle suddenly commences. Than a partly build unit doesn't take part in the combat. It could however be prematurely destroyed.

Figured, the squads in c&c3 could fit that game concept as well. But then you build several units with just one timer.

You can maybe have ROUNDS:

1. Build X buildings
2. Build Y units
3. Combat ... and so on

The idea is this: in the FIRST round you build a certain amount of building. Now for the purpose of this post, I will refer to Star Craft I. You start with a Command Center. And NO UNITS, so you need to build 1 Supply Depot before you can produce units. The Supply Depot has a capacity of 4 slots. Slots are defined for each unit. Some take 2 slots, some take 1 slot like SCV. So you could BUILD up to 4 SCVs to start mining Minerals.

But IF you wanted to build a Marine, you would need to build a Barrack which allows you to recruit Marines. Marines take 2 slots from the Supply Depot.

Something like this could lead to an RTS being developed...

So there could be various defined ROUNDS at which the Dice Rolling in Real-Time is for a specific purpose. And everyone is normally rolling for the SAME building and trying to get the units built, etc.

Obviously these are just *rough* ideas - but you get the general idea...

Update: You can get RID of the rounds and create TWO (2) sets of cards being "drafted" = 1. 4 Building 2. 4 Units. SO you can choose what you will build... by rolling the dice (either a building or a unit). This makes it a little more complex - but at the same time more natural flow...

Just another IDEA I had... 2 "Drafting" sets instead of one.

I'll probably repeat some things others might have said, but here is my take on how a base building strategy game with troops could be done in a board game..

First off, the board.
It could be reasonably big, but nothing too big. But there would be multible boards with the game, so that there are multible maps to play on. They could also be linked together to make a larger map, maybe up to 3 maps could work.

Because there is a lot going on, resources could best be kept basic. Food and gold seems enough, no need to overcomplicate it. Gold would mainly be used for building and researching, and food would mainly be used for upkeep of all your units. The cost of purchasing units could be either food or gold, or both.

Food would be something you'd try to gain a steady supply of. Initially there could be temporary food sources spread across the map that run out. It could be animals to hunt or berry bushes. Either could be represented by tokens to collect with villagers.
Building farms would be the main source of food later on, providing a steady income. The more units you have in play, the more farms you need. Farms could be presented by square farm cards that would be put on the board when bought. Placing a villager on it would allow food to be collected at the end of the turn. This means someone else can steal your farms too by putting their own villager on it.
How much food each farm gives would depend on what kind of number of troops is played with and if some cost more than 1 food upkeep.

Gold would be a riskier resource to get. Farms could be build anywhere and plenty of them too, but gold would come from gold mines placed on set locations on the board. Each goldmine could have a stack of 10 shuffled stone chits on it, the starting goldmine next to the player could have 5 stone chits. For each worker placed in the mine, you get to collect a chit each turn. The bottom of the chit shows differing values, some will be worth more gold than others.
The starting goldmine disappears once depleted, but the others are tokens to be flipped over once depleted, revealing a neutral trade village.
By having an unbroken chain of villagers in each territory between the village and your city, you will gain a gold coin for each link in this chain at the end of your turn.

Speaking of territories, the entire map would be divided in territories.
Starting location territories would be shown in the manual since they would differ with the amount of players, which map is used and also combinations of maps used. The amount of gold mines placed would also be displayed along with this.

Players would only have one city available, which would be a carton underground with several designated locations for buildings. There would be both large and small designated locations. The large locations would only be available in the city, they can be split up to place two small buildings there instead.

Each player would also have two villages available. They are a small version of the city, but only have three available locations for small buildings. The player can establish these villages in a territory of their choice, but it cant be adjacent to tiles with an enemy presence. (including their villages and cities)

Buildings would each have their own distinct miniature, what could be available:

-Barracks. (small building)
Recruits basic millitairy units.

-Elite barracks. (large building)
Recruits elite millitairy units.

-Town hall. (small building)
Recruits villagers.

-Tower. (small building)
Provides stationary ranged support equal to five archers, but costs no food.

-Market. (large building)
Allows trade caravans to be made to neutral trade villages, enables farms to be build and allows resources to be traded with other players that have a market.

-Blacksmith. (small building.)
Allows upgrades to be bought for millitairy units excluding siege weapons.
The upgrades are bought seperately for each unit type, but the improvement will apply to all units of that type.
On the large player dashboard, a token is moved to the next level of the affected unit, and the modifier for their stats is applied. This would be attack, defense, or in rare cases both.
The amount of upgrades available and what it upgrades differs for each unit and allows for different factions to have their own advantages.
A rush faction could have strong units that hardly get upgrades, while another could have initially weak units that get strong when upgraded.

-Workshop. (large building)
Allows the siege weapon to be build, and the construction of walls.

-House. (small building)
Increases the population limit.

-Faction unique building. (small building)
Each faction gets a unique building that offers a special effect.
For one it could be a food production building that gives an alternative to the farm that does not require a worker, it could cost more but also produce a little more than a farm. And would be safer in the town or city.
Another faction might have a gambling den. This allows them to gamble some gold to either obtain more gold but it might backfire and they could lose some gold.

-Wall.
Walls would serve to block units from entering a territory from one direction, allowing them to move into another territory first. Some wider territories could require two walls to close it off from that direction.
They can be build in territories adjacent to your cities and villages.
Siege weapons would be required to destroy walls, but some factions may have another unit capable of destroying them.

-Farm.
Can be build anywhere as long as no enemy units are adjacent to the territory. Up to four farms can be build in a territory.

Construction of standard buildings located in villages and cities are done by purchasing them, farms require a villager in the territory to build it, same for walls.
Villages require your leader to be placed on the map. Since the leader has other importance too, there is a risk involved when you go out to create a village.

Now onto the units.

-Villager.
They build farms and walls, can form trade chains and gather resources. They typically can fight, but maybe a faction could have villagers with a weak attack. But usually all villagers function the same for all factions.

-Leader.
Appearance would be different for each faction. You start with the leader, and you lose if the leader dies. Protecting them is important. How good they are in combat, if they can boost the stats of other troops or of income would depend on the faction. Some are strong in battle but this means also best used in battle and at risk, while others work better somewhere safe, giving a passive benefit in their location but also easier to kill.

-Basic infantry.
Every faction has their main infantry unit, the mainstray of their armies. Cheap and without special abilities. They can move one territory in their turn and attack, or move through two territories in forced march but can't attack then. They can only attack units in the territory they stand in.
Some factions might have basic infantry with more upgrades thats initially weaker and others might be stronger with less upgrades. Some might also not be capable of forced march but may have better defence as a trade off.

-Archer.
Every faction has a ranged unit, typically a foot archer but some might have a cavalry archer instead. They can attack enemies in a territory next to the one they stand in. Foot archers move the same as infantry. They have a weak melee attack thats used when fighting enemies in the same territory as them and tend to have low defense. But melee units can protect archers, forcing the enemy to attack them first if they are in the same territory.

-Cavalry.
Melee cavalry is considered an elite unit. They can move two spaces and attack instead of one, or can move three or four spaces without attacking.
In a typical army they are stronger and less abundant than infantry.

-Artillery.
What it is depends on the faction, but they all can destroy walls. Being slow they can not move and attack. They need to wait untill the next turn to attack.

-Unique unit.
The final unit, and also an elite unit, is unique to each faction. It could be a stronger infantry unit, an archer, cavalry, or something special like a priest, assasin, etc. But always does the unique unit get a special ability.

The game itself could come with four different factions that are somewhat similar, sharing some molds but in different colors.
And after that expansion packs could add new factions with their own building set, cards and everything.

The amount of, archers, infantry, cavalry, artillery and unique units would differ for each faction however.
It could always be the same number in total, but divided differently to show their focus. Should be a good amount of units available to field though.

As for combat.. I have no idea. That part is always tricky and I have not yet played games with large numbers of units.

X3M, not for commercial purposes... though at some point I may do a kickstarter. I didn't want to write a long post on a long dead thread, but since people seem to have been responding to it lately check out the development articles I wrote. I've spent a ton of time developing and playtesting Fall of the Last City and run more than 40 playtests now. It's a RTS with no timers, no dice rolling to simulate build times... to be fair play is divided into turns, but everyone moves at once during the turn. The rules account for race conditions and the game plays smoothly :)

If you are interested in the development details the articles are here: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/paper-prototyping-iterative-design-christ...

If you are interested in what the gameplay looks like the trailer I made for a design competition is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fjRohaVDyw

I'm not selling anything! (Though one day maybe... ;) ) Just trying to contribute to the discussion with something I have put a lot of thought into!

Ryha2000. I checked your blog. That looks very interesting. Do you have the rules somewhere written?