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Odds of winning

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Tue, 08/02/2011 - 00:21
questccg
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I have been play testing a prototype of my new card game. Anyhow to make a long story short, I needed to revisit the ODDS of winning.

Basically what I have done (NOW) is make each card ALMOST equally likely of winning independant of the strength of the card. Seems like an "impossible" thing to do... But I have managed to "nearly" do it.

Say for example you decide to play the WEAKEST card, the Knight (STR = 3). What you can do is summon UP to 8 (QTY) of these guys. So if you multiply STR x QTY you get 24 ATK. At the same time another minion such as a Black Dragon (STR = 8) is allowed a maximum of 3 (QTY). So the total adds up to 24 ATK (again).

Two random RPS (one 3, the other 5) are "random" to a certain degree. The odds of an RPS 5 is 40% (so 40% of the time you will get a bonus of +3 ATK). The RPS 3 is a little trickier to predict... But it too has a bonus (+5 ATK). Neither bonus is the "end of the world" (not some crazy super powerful bonus - just a bonus).

Ergo one of the key factors becomes the INSTANT cards you decide to play during the combat phase. These can modify your final score (and so can the two (2) bonuses).

Does this sound like a "reasonable" system for resolving combat???

If you ask why I have tried to make the cards equally likely in winning, it is because people would not want to play the weaker minion cards (they would always get discarded). It would be too risky to play a weak card since the odds of losing combat are high... Secondly when you are in combat, the cards are hidden (the players don't know each others cards). Once the cards are revealed, then players may play INSTANT cards (to help in their favor).

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Tue, 08/02/2011 - 11:40
#1
3ddevine
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I like this idea alot

I like this idea alot actually. Personally I like that every thing has a chance to be equal. I agree that adding this element to it should make people more inclined to use the lower cards. (This Knight is only worth 3 but I already have 2 in my hand...if I can get one more I can toatlly beat that wizard!)

Do you have any examples of instant cards?

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Tue, 08/02/2011 - 14:15
#2
questccg
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Examples of instant cards

3ddevine wrote:
I like this idea alot actually. Personally I like that every thing has a chance to be equal. I agree that adding this element to it should make people more inclined to use the lower cards. (This Knight is only worth 3 but I already have 2 in my hand...if I can get one more I can totally beat that wizard!)

Well it does not work with combinations. What happens is you choose ONE card as your "base" minion and then you summon several of them. So you would need to summon 8 Knights to fight against 3 Dragons (which seems reasonable). But the Dragons will have a primary bonus of +5 ATK because their combat style is Flight. And the Knight is Light (so beats Death) and will therefore have a secondary bonus of +3 ATK. So 8 Knights (total ATK = 27) vs. 3 Dragons (total ATK = 29). The Dragons have the advantage... It all depends on the INSTANT cards to determine the winner in this scenario. But the Dragons ONLY have a 2 point advantage (which is not ENORMOUS...)

3ddevine wrote:
Do you have any examples of instant cards?

Well the INSTANT cards need to be revised (as of yesterday). Because play testing has revealed that some card have too many "requirements" to put into play.

But examples are: "Assassination", force a player to skip his next turn or "General's charge", add your charisma (CHA) to your ATK total, etc.

In our scenario (Knight vs. Dragons), if a player played "General's charge" and had a CHA = 5, well then the Knights would win the battle (32 to 27)...

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Tue, 08/02/2011 - 14:21
#3
questccg
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Improving the odds

By making the odds "nearly" the same for each card, it makes the battles much CLOSER. What it also will do is make the INSTANT cards MORE valuable... So cards which I "removed" from the game (before play testing) like "+3 ATK" or "opponent -2 ATK", are now VERY valuable in combat. Before the ATK (attack) numbers were much higher (in the 45-50 range), so these cards were not that interesting. Now however with the ATK range in the 24-25 range, the cards have BIG value...

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Tue, 08/02/2011 - 16:39
#4
Yamahako
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With your new system...

With your new system... doesn't that make the stronger cards WAY more powerful due to your fixed costs per unit?

A Creature that needs to summon 8 units to cap out, will be far less effective than one that takes 3 - since it will allow you to leverage your stack more effectively

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Tue, 08/02/2011 - 16:54
#5
questccg
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Players get "rich"

Yamahako wrote:
With your new system... doesn't that make the stronger cards WAY more powerful due to your fixed costs per unit?

Yes - you have a pretty good understanding about my game. BUT what I am planning to do is to REMOVE the FIXED cost per unit and make it chip-based: you play as many chips as you like (to a maximum of your Power (PWR))... The chips over the MAXIMUM allowed for that minion will be used in the event of a TIE. So you can pay more chips ahead of time, to try to gain an advantage later in battle. And because the cards are "nearly" the same odd-wise, adding more chips in your favor is not a stupid thing to do.

Quote:
A Creature that needs to summon 8 units to cap out, will be far less effective than one that takes 3 - since it will allow you to leverage your stack more effectively

With the "income" players get "RICH"... So even if a minion is more effective, it doesn't really change much. Perhaps only in the beginning of the game... But in my 1st play test, players had a LOT of unused income in their stack... Just kept accumulating.

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Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:05
#6
questccg
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Anyone else with comments

I'm still really *torn* about this issue: what I am planning to do is make each card ALMOST equally likely of winning independant of the strength of the card.

Otherwise nobody will play with the WEAKER cards, they'll always get discarded. Nobody will want to lose a pot knowing it is because they used a weaker card.

Anybody else have any ideas/comments???

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Sat, 08/20/2011 - 01:08
#7
questccg
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Update

questccg wrote:
Anybody else have any ideas/comments???

An update: I am thinking about allowing two (2) types of victories.

The first is a "Victory by color": using a RPS 5 (Rock-Paper-Scissors) system, a player can beat his opponent's color and win the battle.

The second is a "Victory by force": this is where the Strength (STR) + quantity of minions determines the winner of the battle.

This *might* give purpose to some of the weaker cards: you now have two (2) ways to defeat your opponent. A weak card can still win "by color" making it just as valuable as any other card...

I am still unsure about the "odds of winning" though... The other point is that the game must be FLUID. I don't want players to sit around and do nothing just because they are waiting to draw the "correct" card to battle their opponent...

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