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Should I convert my open source game as a commercial game?

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Tue, 03/16/2021 - 18:43
#31
questccg
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IMHO find a writer FIRST

You may think this is a STUPID idea ... But after everything that I have said... I would TRY to find a Fantasy Fiction Writer FIRST! As I have said and explained, that MOST "Video Games" rely HEAVILY on STORY and ADVENTURE. I shared with you "Lands of Lore" and/or "Might and Magic" (Clouds of Xeen) and these were BOTH HUGE "Hits" in the PC world of Gaming.

What I suggest for your writer is to START with a "Story Arc". This is a FREE Half (1/2) page paragraph about what YOUR WRITER thinks is a GOOD Fantasy Fiction Story (Story Arc).

Make this the criteria for SELECTING the "correct" Writer... In that YOU have seen his/her own ideas on the overall ARC of the story to be told. And that should be FREE "Submissions" based on the fact that the BEST and most appropriate concept will get to do the writing for the game.

And from there YOU have your STORY (in a brief version and/or half-page paragraph) and you have a Fantasy Fiction Writer who can begin working on the DETAILS of the story... Like figure out HOW many "Chapters" to your adventure: is it 4 or 5?! Basically saying that "Chapter #1" will be about "X" and "Chapter #2" will be about "Y", etc. Go in-depth into the story with your writer's ideas...

Then START to work on "Chapter #1", what are the "Quests" and/or "Adventures/stories" within this chapter. "Chapter #1" IMHO if made available FREE ... Will determine if people LIKE your Fan Project or not. If sufficient people DOWNLOAD the "First Chapter" and LIKE IT... You'll know you should CONTINUE to work on the project.

Again this is a DIFFERENT way of approaching the game. Making a FIRST step to TEST the waters with your game concept, your writer and maybe if you can get an artist to contribute textures and/or characters, monsters and so forth...

It's like do 20% to 25% (4 or 5 Chapters)... Only the FIRST CHAPTER. And gage the results... What do people/gamers THINK of it?! Do they LOVE IT and absolutely want MORE??? Or is it just a few people who downloaded it but there wasn't enough INTEREST in the game itself.

This is yet another approach... Cheers.

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Tue, 03/16/2021 - 19:02
#32
questccg
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The ART of marketing a STORY

The other thing to have a GOOD maybe GREAT "Chapter #1" set of stories ... is that this is SOMETHING you can "SHARE" with the other POTENTIAL contributors (your concept artist, your environmental artist, your asset artist, your Graphic Designer, etc.) This could FUEL people to be DRAWN to your game and to work on it... BECAUSE IT SOUNDS SO COOL!

I would 100% KEEP the NAME: Wizardry Legacy I.

I added the "I" because make it seem like a LARGER project and that you are thinking of EPISODES in the future. If people LOVE IT ... There will be more that can be made and done in the future.

Think to share the "STORY ARC" (half-page paragraph) about the PROJECT to all people (gamers, contributors, EVERYONE, etc.) That's like your MEAT and POTATOES. It's a concise short look into the future of what makes for a GREAT STORY-TELLING adventure.

I know, I know... You don't think you need a STORY. WRONG! Out of everything that I say, said or shared... YOU NEED A STORY. The only games that had no stories were on the Atari 2600. And their repetitive nature made them FUN ... But also boring because most never ended...

If you take ANYTHING from what I have mentioned... REMEMBER that you NEED a STORY! Just remember that and go-forwards with that in mind. See where it takes you. Working with a great writer is real cool. And it doesn't take much to PEN DOWN before you've got something "interesting to tell"...

You can FREELY go ignore all my other advice... IF ONLY that you remember that I told you that you NEED a STORY. Cheers @Eric ... Hope things work out with your Fan/Revival game!

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Tue, 03/16/2021 - 20:23
#33
questccg
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I think Margaret Atwood said it best...

"Human beings are creative story-telling beings... They make ART because that's what Human beings do!" Or "The waste-paper basket is your friend... It was invented for you by God!" (That one makes me laugh; lol)

And maybe you can get someone to design you a COOL "Trailer" for your game... IDK ... But you need a way to INTEREST people in what it is you are doing. Having a GREAT Story Arc would go a long way in making people more interested in what you are doing.

It's like a "Trailer" but on a limited budget.

It's also a compelling way to SHARE what it is YOU want to design and bring to fruition ... in your project/game.

Take for example: "StarCraft I"... They showed us a "teaser" with a Space Marine (from what I remember) and everyone was like: "This is going to be an awesome game!" Just from a 60 second video. Tried to find the link/URL couldn't. But I remember it being a Marine Smoking a Cigar... And everyone was like COOL/Awesome (and no it was not StarCraft II; I clearly remember it being a Blizzard Teaser for StarCraft I).

But IF I had known the STORY ARC ... That would have been equally impressive too... Because me playing "StarCraft I" was BECAUSE of the Story! Kept you playing missions just to hear/see what Video Interlude would be next and how the STORY would be advancing...

Best of luck(?!) with your "Wizardry Legacy I" (Wizl1) game.

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Thu, 03/18/2021 - 11:14
#34
larienna
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Quote:Ultimately what I am

Quote:
Ultimately what I am saying is that YOU NEED "contributors".

I could do everything by myself, the only difference is time and quality. There are many single developper games out there. Two that comes to my mind that I have seen are "Stardew Valley" and "Forager".

Quote:
I would 100% KEEP the NAME: Wizardry Legacy I.

I can't, it might be too close to the original franchise and be suject to copyright issues. I though in keeping the word wizardry for search results to hit their mark but use it in a different context. One idea is to call it "The order of Wizardry". Here "wizardry" is more used as a noun, and the background story would be that you play characters from that order which all have magic abilities, so it makes thematically sense.

Quote:
I added the "I" because make it seem like a LARGER project and that you are thinking of EPISODES in the future

There will be room for expandability using different adventure and play modes, but there is no linear story sequence or relationship between adventures. They are all in a box of their own allowing more flexibility to their content.

Quote:
And maybe you can get someone to design you a COOL "Trailer" for your game

That will happen at then end when the game is finished, and it will probably be done by the publisher.

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Thu, 03/18/2021 - 18:20
#35
questccg
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I personally think that you've got something good...

larienna wrote:
I could do everything by myself, the only difference is time and quality. There are many single developer games out there. Two that comes to my mind that I have seen are "Stardew Valley" and "Forager".

True. But will your game be awesome looking??? I'm the first person to recognize that my ART is not up-to-par (When comparing to any of my artists). That's why I do contracts with them... So they can make amazing art which in turn my Gamers love!

larienna wrote:
I can't, it might be too close to the original franchise and be subject to copyright issues. I though in keeping the word wizardry for search results to hit their mark but use it in a different context. One idea is to call it "The order of Wizardry". Here "wizardry" is more used as a noun, and the background story would be that you play characters from that order which all have magic abilities, so it makes thematically sense.

Okay I understand... This is of course a matter of opinion. The term "Wizardry" is in the Dictionary. As such it is not possible to copyright the term ... because it is not a fictitious word. So legally, I think you don't have to change the name if you provide sufficient differentiation. Ergo the need for the term "Legacy".

larienna wrote:
There will be room for expandability using different adventure and play modes, but there is no linear story sequence or relationship between adventures. They are all in a box of their own allowing more flexibility to their content.

Separate adventures are COOL and all. But some kind of "background and mysterious happenings" could make the game very popular. People like to know what is going on "behind the scenes" and if you have a Secret Agenda and story arc which spans several editions... Well that can be cool too!

larienna wrote:
That will happen at then end when the game is finished, and it will probably be done by the publisher.

This also makes sense to me. But I've seen a TCG where they made a video and it looked awesome. The game was never produced because the manager of the game didn't have enough funds to manufacture said game/TCG. But they did ALL their art, voiceovers and even a Trailer... Looked real PRO!

But waiting for the Publisher sounds like a good idea too!

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Fri, 03/19/2021 - 17:00
#36
larienna
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Quote:True. But will your

Quote:
True. But will your game be awesome looking???

Does it needs to be awesome looking? I recently watched my GF play "Undertale" and the graphics looks like if it was drawn by an 8 year old. In fact, it looks like a bad NES game in matter of game look.

If it can be awesome looking, I won't spit on it. But is it essential?

If people expect a retro game, will it still be essential? Because of retro gaming, the bar is not always set at the same height. It seems you need to be good according to the category you are aiming for.

Quote:
The term "Wizardry" is in the Dictionary.

But there are many brand, trademark and franchise composed of only 1 word which is in the dictionary. People could argue that Wizardry Legacy is a spin off Wizardry like that was the case with "Wizardry Nemesis". So people could think it belong the the same franchise owner. If that confusion is possible, then a legal case is possible.

Still, as you said wizardry is a common word, I have even seen it in Harry Potter. So I think using the word differently like in "The order of Wizardry" could be a way to dissociate myself from the franchise while being searchable.

Quote:
But some kind of "background and mysterious happenings" could make the game very popular.

If some adventures end up being very popular, making sequels or related adventures could be done. This was the case with Wizardry 1 to 3 which have stories linked to each other. Still the link was weak.

Quote:
But waiting for the Publisher sounds like a good idea too!

I'll see how it goes, but during development, I can make sort of play through videos where I demonstrate my gameplay in order to attract interest. But it will be more a play session than a trailer.

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Fri, 03/19/2021 - 17:07
#37
larienna
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Strangely, I know about

Strangely, I know about trademark and brand conflict because I made some homework in one of my school class. There was this case for the "Barbie's" restaurants VS "Barbie" doll. I think it was settled that people do not associate the restaurant with the Barbie doll brand. So the case was rejected.

There was another case where a insurance company wanted to use a keyword for their website, which conflict with another insurance representative that protected the brand already. Now since the representative failed to establish a know franchise using that keyword, people did not easily associate the keyword with his product. So the insurance company was allowed to use the keyword.

So the familiarity with the brand is important.

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Fri, 03/19/2021 - 19:25
#38
questccg
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Something to consider

larienna wrote:
questccg wrote:
True. But will your game be awesome looking???

Does it needs to be awesome looking? I recently watched my GF play "Undertale" and the graphics looks like if it was drawn by an 8 year old. In fact, it looks like a bad NES game in matter of game look.

If it can be awesome looking, I won't spit on it. But is it essential?

It is essential if you want people to BUY it... "Undertale" BTW the trailer looks real cool with retro-type audio too. But I would not buy this for $10.99 because I don't like PLAYING Video Games anymore... I'd rather be designing and working on my own projects/products.

larienna wrote:
If people expect a retro game, will it still be essential? Because of retro gaming, the bar is not always set at the same height. It seems you need to be good according to the category you are aiming for.

When you say RETRO game ... You talk like "Undertale"... Something with an old-feeling to the game. But do you know how COMPELLING I bet the STORY is in "Undertale".

You give me the impression of a dude who says: "All I need is a car. I don't care what kind of car it is BECAUSE all cars are made the same. Because in the end it gets me from Point A to Point B and Back..."

This is the WRONG way of thinking. In this case ALL cars would be sold at the same price and all be the same model and color with the same specifications (including gas consumption).

While there are people who do still THINK this way... They are in a very narrow and small minority.

Most people have a number of reasons why they buy and choose the car that is "Right" for them. (There are a lot of factors including price... but that's not the purpose of this comment...)

The real issue is the NICER your game looks ... The more odds that players will be willing to give it a "chance". The more RETRO it looks the more it will FEEL like an OLD GAME. And that could be a game that NOBODY wants to play NOWADAYS!

Anyways it's your game... I'm just trying to offer you the best amount of success. I know a lot about the RETRO gaming scene. I have a Nintendo DSi with a Korean Chip that allows me to Download and copy THOUSANDS of game on that one Chip... I maybe have like 12 or so games on it now. I play every now and then.

I also know about SNES and such PC Emulators which allow you to Download and play ROMs from those consoles. But again I'm not a fanatic... I tried to Download and play "Ogre Battle" (because you suggested it... And I thought it looked kind of cool too...) and played for 2 hours or so... And got BORED of the game (like I said I don't play Video Games anymore)!

I've also played favorites like Mike Tyson's Punch-Out on the NES Emulator too... A real favorite of mine back in the day!

The game that I've played the MOST is a RETRO game: Ultima 5. Of course with cheats/walkthrough because the World is so large and there are so many things you need to do to WIN the game. I remember spending countless hours playing this game when I was like 16 years old. It was AWESOME.

But even that game could not keep my attention... I've gotten bored of it and have discontinued playing it.

So I know a bit about NOSTALGIA and RETRO gaming. But all those games that I've tried are mostly ABANDONWARE or FREE to Download and PLAY!

That's why IF you want to CHARGE money to people to BUY your "retro" game... I don't know if any will buy into the "Franchise" (well it's not even a Franchise because you don't have a story arc yet... Heck you don't even have a story for this ONE game...)

And SPRITE art is hard to do too... Takes a special kind of artist to make NES/SNES-like graphics too... Same goes with the 8-bit or 16-bit musical score/audio.

But my main point is... Like the car ... Each game is a fit for some gamers for a set of reasons which can be much different for ANOTHER set of gamers which play for another set of reasons. If you want a successful game... FOCUS LESS ON RETRO and more on making it AWESOME.

Of course... you'll probably stick to "any car is the same since they all serve the same purpose"... Good luck with your game... I've tried to explain myself on numerous occasions and I don't get the feeling that you understand MY POV...

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Fri, 03/19/2021 - 22:13
#39
questccg
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One more comment

You seem to be working "Backwards". You think that IF you design ENOUGH (whatever that means), people will become interested in the "GAME"?! You pre-suppose that you can find a Publisher with just some sample level or two to showcase the set of "tools" that you have put together to BUILD a game.

Having your game OPEN SOURCE, did you get any "contributors"??? No. Why?

Because you are putting the "Cart before the Horse". What do I mean. I was approached by someone who knew of people who wanted to DESIGN a Video Game. It was just a few dudes (2 or 3) that had been chatting in a Discord Forum. The person who spoke to me about that opportunity said he could CONTRIBUTE when if came to concept design (like Units) and their stats and pretty much insure that the game was balanced.

But there had just been a "Dune" Board Game designed recently and I was not interested by the project.

Why is this in any way important and relevant???

Because "if you build it, they will come..." is NOT TRUE. I know this from experience with "Quest Adventure Cards(tm)". Yes the cards were nicely illustrated but the game was designed for nine (9) year olds!

So just because you HAD/HAVE an OPEN SOURCE project doesn't mean people will JOIN YOU. You have to go out and FIND people who are INTERESTED in YOUR VISION. And maybe find 1 or 2 people (maybe a Writer) who would be interested in penning a story...

Again just because you have the "tools" doesn't mean any people will pitch-in with your designing, coding, illustration of your game.

If you want your concept to be successful, you need to get more people involved. That's what I am saying... The Lone Wolf strategy will probably get your product and you no where.

These are only my personal opinions... You may be lucky and find the right person for the right position and maybe then you will be able to build a better "mousetrap".

Cheers!

Note #1: And the problem with "Quest AC" was that I did not know my AUDIENCE. Sure nine (9) year old kids would be a GREAT market but they have $0.00. Their parents buy the toys and games for them. And since this is TRUE, I could not advertise to kids directly with a Cartoon Show (like Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh!), nor was there Brand Recognition in terms of the game being known to kids AND their parents. It was a hopeless project... A complete and total loss/failure.

First KNOW your audience. Secondly find "contributors": people that want to WRITE the narrative. Third continue to code with the story in mind. Fourth find some artists (Concept Art, Illustrations, Assets, etc.), etc.

You've got to BUILD on SUCCESS. One step at a time. Not I'm going to code Level #1 and put it out there and see what people think!? I know that's EXACTLY what you want/plan to do. It's one HARD way to do things.

Best of luck(!?) with your game...

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Fri, 03/19/2021 - 23:11
#40
questccg
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Here I did the HARD part for you...

Here is a LINK to the Discord Servers with the TAGs "Game Design"... There are 60 different links:

https://disboard.org/servers/tag/game-design

That's is where I would begin. Explain YOUR story... How long you have been working on the game, how many hours per week do you spend coding, what you are looking for in terms of "contributors", explain the nature of your project (since you no longer want it to be OPEN SOURCE), etc.

Basically start a NARRATIVE. This will be GREAT because all the people who read up about YOUR VISION and GAME ... Will recognize the narrative in the future. Like say in 6 months time, someone comes along with a SIMILAR IDEA and/or concept, people will say: "Hey this dude Eric had the same IDEA but he has put together a set of tools already!"

Start with one (1) Discord Server and see what people THINK about your project. I hope you are not the PARANOID sort... Thinking everyone will be wanting to steal YOUR idea... Don't worry you've got MONTHS to YEARS of coding AHEAD of them...

That also is imperative to your narrative: explain that helping you is the best way to go... Because you've already INVESTED a TON of time coding and working on the game!

Again, I'm just trying to help you out... I feel like you have a good CONCEPT, but that you're planning to take it down the wrong path (and not make it a success...)

Note #1: To show you how EASY it is to join an interesting group... I JOINED: Chill Game Devs. I've already got access and chosen my role as: Game Designer! You should join too... And start TALKING about "The Order of Wizardry"... If you don't I will!!! (lol)

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Sat, 03/20/2021 - 00:38
#41
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larienna wrote:"Undertale"...

larienna wrote:
"Undertale"... it looks like a bad NES game in matter of game look.

If people expect a retro game, will it still be essential? Because of retro gaming, the bar is not always set at the same height.

I think this mindset is why indie "retro" games have such a bad reputation. The NES had games with decent graphics, and also "retro" but with higher specs, the pc98 had graphics which are very impressive(granted they cheated a little by drawing them first and then painstakingly recreating them pixel by pixel).
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-JirOXV0AAgLI1.jpg

On top of that, some modern "retro" games have upped people's expectations like Blasphemous(also has a fantasy theme)
https://areajugones.sport.es/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Blasphemous.jpg
Basically, "retro" =/= excuse to be an eyesore.

questccg wrote:
But do you know how COMPELLING I bet the STORY is in "Undertale".

The only reason people like Undertale is the story(or they're a furry). The gameplay itself is very bare bones and lackluster.

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Sun, 03/21/2021 - 23:00
#42
questccg
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So far nobody is interested in a Wizardry Re-make!

I posted on the HELP section and no one has responded for any creatives or a Unity or Unreal developer with some access URL/Link to some kind of texture library (you can maybe buy with like 1,000 textures or something similar)...

I must admit that would be a AWESOME Jewel to find! A Pattern/Texture library with that many textures could be worth $20 USD to $50 USD... Of course the archive (ZIP) would need a catalog.txt to ensure that all the content was ordered and documented.

See now THAT is something that could SELL! Everyone using Unity could be of benefit by having such a "library"... Moreover, depending on the price, it could be extremely valuable and put to good use in many different prototypes...

And just searching to see what I could find. This matched my query:

https://www.textures.com/pricing

It's expensive ... But IF you thing about it $129 per YEAR and you get 1,000 credits PER MONTH. Gives you 12 months to find all of the textures you need for your project...

I'd definitely take a look to see IF it is worth it. Think about the price ($129 per YEAR) ... That is less expensive than an Illustrator or Environmental Artist... for sure!

And monthly versus 1 YEAR you save $15 USD. Pretty good too!

I'll wait a while longer to see if ANYONE reaches out to me ... regarding your "Retro" Game. We'll see... But so far, nobody seems interested!

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Tue, 03/23/2021 - 17:43
#43
questccg
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Again ... no interest so far...

I guess it's pretty much left to ME to DM one of the random Unity Folks and ask to see where they are getting their "textures" from because ALL of those Unity games are 3D and use 3D Models and Texture Mapping too... So they need to have a SOURCE for the "Textures" if the game is supposed to look pretty decent...

Have you had the chance to look at "www.textures.com"??? Could this be a resource of VALUE to you?

You've been busy ... probably all the "nice weather" we've been having recently in our area. In any event, let me know what you think! Cheers.

Take #2: So I've posted some images of various textures and screenshots from your website ... To give an idea about how SOME "Textures" are higher quality and others lower and therefore subject to pixelation (as per the events screenshot: the walls and ceiling look pixelated, the floor looks GREAT!)

We'll see if anyone REACTS to the images ... And maybe someone MIGHT help out just a bit... TBD!!!

Note #1: Eric: do you think you can provide some up-dated images of the textures and some maze locations as well as 3D Objects too...? I'm just trying to HELP out a bit... And sharing some images with the group to see if anyone has any input or not!

Like those torches on the wall texture ... Look very crappy. If they were like the 3D Objects they might look more impressive and more natural in the game...

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Wed, 03/24/2021 - 16:07
#44
questccg
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Haha... It always pays to be patient!

Looks like someone cool responded last night to my query about improved "Textures". Now why this is just a one-time response, it shows that there are people who might be willing to help... If not for HOW to use the textures BETTER ... But it's not "out of the question" that a source can MAYBE be found for improved textures.

I will keep you posted on where this leads... IDK yet. But he may be one cool dude who is very familiar with Unity or Unreal and 3D Modeling and Texture Mapping too!

Let you know ... Cheers.

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Fri, 03/26/2021 - 16:09
#45
larienna
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Here are the answers to many

Here are the answers to many comments and questions

Quote:
You talk like "Undertale"... Something with an old-feeling to the game. But do you know how COMPELLING I bet the STORY is in "Undertale".

Of course, every game has it's focus. Look at any game, video and board game, the designer make choice according to his focus. For example, look at the various space opera board game: Twilight Imperium, Eclipse, Galactic Emperor, Empire of the void, Impulse, etc. They are all space exploration and conquest games, but they focus on something different from one another.

Quote:
(like I said I don't play Video Games anymore)!

You might just not have found the right game for your. The world of video games is huge, it's almost impossible to find no game fits your needs. You just need to be able to evaluate what you want and find games matching your needs. Determine which mechanics you want, the time investment (long, short sessions), the importance of story and world building, and many other aspects. Looks at games you played, see what you like and hate. We are also older, so playing a 100 hour RPG might not be our thing anymore. But there can still be things that we can play today. Personnally, I prefer short "Play and forget" style of games that I can jump in at any time.

Quote:
The game that I've played the MOST is a RETRO game: Ultima 5.

Personnally, I prefer Ultima 4 on the Sega Master System. It's still a long game, but you could just wander around for fun too. It's the ancestor of open world game.

Quote:
FOCUS LESS ON RETRO and more on making it AWESOME.

Of course, its just that the "awesome" to focus on can be anything, and not necessarily "Artwork" and "Story". Recently I played "Forager". It has 8 bits graphics and the game is basically "work": cuting wood and mining stone, building stuff, etc. Still, it is highly addictive and it has the same addition pattern as 4X video games like Civilization, Master of orion which always bring something new to keep players hooked in the game. Yet, there is zero story, the theme has no cohesion, the artwork is 8 bit, there is no real game ending. And yet, it's a wonderful, indie, single programmer game that won many prises.

So there is no "You must do" recipe to follow.

Quote:
So just because you HAD/HAVE an OPEN SOURCE project doesn't mean people will JOIN YOU. You have to go out and FIND people who are INTERESTED in YOUR VISION.

Effectively, you are right. This is called social networking ... and I hate it. For this reason, it was logical not to keep the source open as I will not hunt for contributors anyway and I don't like when people play in my code.

Quote:
A Pattern/Texture library with that many textures could be worth $20 USD to $50 USD...

Again, www.davegh.com is an open texture library I am currently using. My friend could also help me with that. It mainly depends how my monster will be made. If I use digital painting for my creatures, I might need to use digital painting for the textures too else both will clash with each other. If I paint my own stuff, I might add new monster, art, texture as they are required by new adventures. Allowing progressive development.

That is one thing I wanted from the beginning, progressive development: Start with a subset of features and have a playable game relatively fast. Then as time passes, I can add new adventures, monsters, art, game features, etc. I don't want to do all at once. Still, I would need a relatively good amount of stuff on release.

Quote:
Eric: do you think you can provide some up-dated images of the textures and some maze locations as well as 3D Objects too...? I'm just trying to HELP out a bit...

Texture: www.davegh.com

3D objects: I have little objects, even on the next it's hard to find.. The engine will support 2D objects placed in a 3D environment. Look at Doom/Hexen engine for innanimate objetcs. Think of a wood plank with a painting on it that you put in your living room and that is always facing you.

Maze engine: I am refactoring the maze engine, so It is not yet available. Currently busy working on school homework. I indent to try using real 3D projections to simulate partially animated maze movement (1-3 intermediary frame) while keeping the instant mode as an option for those who wants to walk fast. Like I said, it's not a complete real 3D environment with real thick walls, else I would lose features like one way walls.

Quote:
Like those torches on the wall texture ... Look very crappy.

The old screen shots have been using Hexen textures which where 128x128. The front wall was something like 3??x3?? pixels, which means it was stretched a lot and was shown very pixelised. The new textures from davegh are 256x256 pixels, which reduces the level of stretching and have more detailed output.

Also, there will be the line mode, where no textures are used, if you want to play Amiga Style.

Hope it clarifies most questions. I'll try to post screenshots when the maze engine will be refactored. Maze objects are not judged essential for now as classic wizardry games did not even have maze objects. In wiz 5, they appeared in front of you during certain events (you could not see them comming).

This is a screen shot of the user interface, still it's not yet complete, but gives a good idea of the look and feel. The whole UI is text based for simplicity, even the frame border. It's very similar to NES/SNES style UI.

http://wl.lariennalibrary.com/uploads/News/News202101210949PM/wui_12px.png

Enjoy!

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Fri, 03/26/2021 - 19:14
#46
questccg
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You're all set ... Then???

Here's an example of HOW you can make those textures look AWESOME in your game:

The wall on the TOP LEFT is the Original "Brown" texture. You can do this to your textures and have all kinds of different textures that are all PHOTOSHOP-ed and makes your game look AMAZING! All you need to do is use color overlays and play with the 100% transparency to get more or less brightness in the results of each texture.

Question for Eric (@larienna):

questccg wrote:
Do you want me to see if anyone would be interested in making "Monsters" with more definition than what you have???

You seem to have found 100% website for "Texture Mapping" and I've shown how with Photoshop, you can create different colors and create distinct areas in your levels...

Just let me know... And I'll ask around to see if someone can maybe be interested in BETTER "art" than the Monster Gallery... Let me know if you WANT me to ask... If not, I'll leave you with the Davegh + Photoshop to create Hi-Res "Textures" for mapping in your game.

Cheers!

Note #1: Please visit the David Gurrea website for more textures (sample downloaded from his website) at: http://www.davegh.com

Note #2: Not that this is of immediate importance... But if you change the colors for the textures... You may have to modify some with a mask because of things like doors (wooden or steel) which already have a specific color (Brown or grey, for example)... So yeah that's a project in it-self to create all the color matching "textures" that you need per level (or per area on the map)...

Right now those samples are very EASY because there is no "mask". But someone average in Photoshop should be able to create the masks for most of the textures ... Some of the more detailed ones with other content like vines or wood, etc. Are more troublesome to "edit"...

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Fri, 04/02/2021 - 16:35
#47
larienna
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I am juggling with the idea

I am juggling with the idea of an hydrid solution that could require more work, offer more flexibility, but maybe remove pressure and make the commercial release optional.

There seems to be 2 components in the game that seems to be reusable:

1. The maze engine: the maze maps, the 3D projections, the editor, texture palettes, etc.

2. The user interface: Windows with menu populated manually or using a database.

I could make those 2 components open source apache licensed making it reusable for commercial and non-profit usage. And allowing contributions if necessary.

I'll have to isolate those portion completely from the rest of the game and reduce dependencies. The advantage, is that I can build a compiled library afterwards with simplifies the build process since I don't need to recompile those libraries when the source of the game changes. Also, each module could have a git project of it's own.

Then using those components, I could branch 2 project out of it:

"Wizardry Legacy": The open source GPL licensed game much more similar to the original game with a few twist to fix annoyances and make the experience more pleasurable. So new mechanics ideas will not be used, I'll have to chose which mechanics would remain or stick to D&D 3rd edition.

"The Order of Wizardry": A commercial version of the game with different but yet similar mechanics using a completely different gameplay.

Trying to limit code duplication between both projects would be a challenge which will normally means beefing up one of the 2 components above.

It could possibly remove some pressure as I could work for fun on the components modules or work on the free game and when I am ready to make a real commercial game, reuse what is available and make a game out of it.

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Fri, 04/02/2021 - 18:30
#48
questccg
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Do you want some more "eyes" on your project???

larienna wrote:
I am juggling with the idea of an hydrid solution that could require more work, offer more flexibility, but maybe remove pressure and make the commercial release optional...

It could possibly remove some pressure as I could work for fun on the components modules or work on the free game and when I am ready to make a real commercial game, reuse what is available and make a game out of it.

Do you want me to ASK if the "@Levi" is interested in the project? He's a "Unity" developer ... But he has asked me IF you were using an "Engine" and I said YES ... But something proprietary; not "Unreal" or "Unity" ... Your own set of tools with the available source.

I don't know IF he will be interested. But MAYBE I could ASK ... As a START IF you want me to ask...?!

He seemed kind of interested by the concept... And maybe he might want to "help out" (IDK). He'd have to chat with you...

questccg wrote:
As I said, do you want me to ASK if one of the Developers is interested in knowing more about the project, your "engine", it's tools, etc. IF YES, just let me know...

I don't want to ask and look like a fool if you don't want anyone else to collaborate with ... Or just for the time being "present" the project.

Like I said, he may be interested in what you are doing. He said (from the conversation we had) that you are more advanced in your efforts than he is... Which kinda hints ... He'd maybe want to take a look at what you have. He knows it's a "revival" (Retro game) ...

If YES, please let me know. If NO, again you can tell me to "forget about it"... I'm not sure he is interested 100% ... But he did chat with me a bit. So it may be curiosity (knowing more) ... And then you can discuss with him.

Anyhow, please let me know. And I'll understand how to proceed. Cheers!

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Tue, 04/06/2021 - 17:34
#49
questccg
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I think your IDEA is really GOOD

Breaking up the effort in implementing the TOOLs and making them available as "Freeware" or "Shareware" (or something like that) such that a studio can then take those TOOLs that you made and use them to create a GAME with them, would be AWESOME!

If you did this... I'm sure SOMEBODY will become interested in using them to produce their OWN "Video Game" which is reflective of the Wizardry Saga.

No worries, I just shared with "@Levi" your Level Editor and the Level Map to show how each level can be designed. I will post some time in the future your Monster Gallery to see if there is anyone who might be interested in drawing better "sprite" monsters. I'll wait for this... Maybe a couple weeks... TBD.

Again I am not showing more than what is accessible via your Website. So, no worries... Nothing ground-breaking but COOL TOOLs which could prove to be actually VALUABLE in MAKING games!

Cheers @larienna (Hope this works out for you)!

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Tue, 04/06/2021 - 21:42
#50
larienna
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It could also have non-gaming

It could also have non-gaming application that I have not foreseen.

For example, I could make a separate open source maze engine that could be used in other software than gaming. Not sure exactly for what purpose, but there could be some interests. I could work only on that engine and eventually use it in my game when I am ready. The dependencies would only be allegro.

Same thing for the user interface, there could be a certain re-usability for non-gaming app, but in that case I'll have dependencies to SQL database and allegro. Since it's a user interface, there could be various situation where such gamepad graphic menu based UI could be used.

Now, I'll have to ask myself if extracting the code as side projects has an high cost in time for me. Sure, the setup will be more painful, there will be some initial work to make. But afterwards, they will all be independent projects I can work on separately. It could look less overwhelming.

Finally, the "game code" would be separate from the engine code making it easier to handle. In the end, the engine would remain open, but not the game code. Which is similar to my other ideas that I wanted to created an open engine, it's just that in the case of Wizardry Legacy, I don't see yet the other applications of the engine.

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Wed, 04/07/2021 - 14:26
#51
questccg
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Do you FISH???

Maybe "mapping" of a campground or lakes for fishing HOTSPOTS with the various types of fish that can be found in different areas of a LAKE!? This is something kinda cool TBH. I know they have up North a bunch of areas for fisherman to fish various lakes for various fish... But if they had a MAP of EACH LAKE or the lakes on Level 1, Level 2 (costs more money), Level 3... each set of lakes because they are further away may cost more to reach, via an All-Terrain Vehicle so the Levels can be PROXIMITY. Level 1 are directly off the shore of the camping grounds and log cabins.

Anyhow something like that... Mapping out LAKES for fishing!

That's the only IDEA that I have for the moment... But it could be kind of neat to explore the MAP of an "outfitter". Just a CRAZY thought!

Idea #2: How about some kind of "Scavenger Hunt" at one of the National Parks or an "outfitter" up North. That could be cool too for the kids who go up with their parents... Some kind of mystery journey that takes place from their campgrounds and into the nearby forests around where they are staying.

This could be pretty AWESOME... Too bad your engine is not an APP... Because that could be cool. You download it to your phone and then you can use it during your JOURNEY. That's Idea #2...

I'm thinking outdoors and plenty of FUN for the entire Family.

Note #1: The Scavenger Hunt could be interesting ... But the issue is that it needs to be a "downloadable" APP to work. Many places up North have POOR cell coverage. But if it's a SELF-CONTAINED APP with all the levels pre-built, well then all you need to do is download the app and then explore during the day ... And refer to the MAP as needed.

Obviously it's going to be different per location... But there could be clues in the woods and identify TRAILS with Sign Posts in the Mobile APP and the actual forest.

I just would be very hesitant to take a cellular phone on a kayak or canoe ... I'd be too worried should the boat flip, your phone is worthless. But a Scavenger Hunt, which is on LAND ... That could be cool... And not have the RISK... Plus it's something COOL for the kids to have FUN with.

Once you have your map software done... You should go to a "Salon Plein air Chasse et Pêche de Montréal" (or http://www.salonchassepechepleinair.ca ) to see if you can collaborate with an outfitter to make a "Scavenger Hunt" for the kids of people who like fishing, camping, hiking (that's an important aspect... Just walking around and EXPLORING looking for clues, etc...)

And they can be "permanents" ... Like a "Jam Jar" with a sealable top... So when you find one, you can open it and read what it says and then take a picture of the note (as proof you found it), and then RETURN the "note" back into the Jar and put it back for future players!

Note #2: How could the Scavenger Hunt WORK??? Well each location has a special KEYWORD. Like #1: "Begin" and you would select #1 and type in the WORD "Begin" (or Debut in French). This would UNLOCK a part of the MAP and would be different than moving step-by-step.

Given a clue, you unlock an area with other clues and events. You would need to really work out a Scavenger Hunt with the Keywords and locations... Like one clue shows you letters and you need to hunt the missing letters to complete the Hunt. Like "-o--ine" ("colline") meaning a Hill in English and proceed to the Hill in question. Marked with a SIGN POST... "Colline St-Barques" (for example).

Stuff like that. You know FUN stuff for hiking, climbing, exploring ...

Note #3: Maybe you could use a TABLET PC instead... And install/download the "Engine" and hook it up with the Maze Database(?!) and it could be player consult a TABLET PC and use their CELL PHONES to take pictures of the CLUEs too... That could be a HYBRID solution... And it might make it easier on you... Rather than an APP, you need a program for an Android Tablet. You might not be APPLE compatible.

But MAYBE people can RENT the Tablet PC PRE-CONFIGURED... For the Scavenger Hunt. $100 to $200 for the hardware and renting it out for a day could cost like $50 ... Payment for the use of the hardware and off the family goes on a journey!

Note #4: I think TABLET PC are equipped with GPS. So the DEVICE can be used to ensure people DON'T get LOST either...! All this ADVENTURE ... But you need to ensure people stay on the correct "path" and not venture too far ... And if they do... They should use the GPS to find their way back to the campgrounds and/or log cabins... Or wherever the Scavenger Hunt started!

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Thu, 04/08/2021 - 10:02
#52
larienna
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Let me remind you that a MAZE

Let me remind you that a MAZE engine is not really good for mapping outdoor areas. Unless you consider walls of trees logical. It was used in arcana on SNES, a bit illogical for me.

Still, open sky maze is still possible, for example hedge maze exists. And I intend to support open sky area in the new engine. I might even support chasm like in the game "Stranger of Sword City" for more variety.

All this would be possible if I use a real 3D environment to position wall, then use a camera matrix to map them on the screen. Right now, everything is mapped manually.

Still, allegro is a minimalist 3D engine, so I have to keep the nb of polygons low. Flat walls are OK, but having 3D models would not be an option.

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Thu, 04/08/2021 - 12:08
#53
questccg
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Well if you look at...

"Lands of Lore", the first level is all about being "outdoors" and travelling the wilderness. You use forests as your "walls" and clearings as your "rooms" and "hallways". Or you can have "walking paths" which are like the "hallways" which can connect two (2) or more "rooms". That's a bit more than how I was thinking about it!

But definitely nothing to do with WATER and LAKES. While I really LIKE the idea about "mapping" a lake and the hotspots for different types of fish... The computer (be a cell phone or a tablet pc) is not compatible with water venturing.

Hedge Mazes may be good. But not many of those around.

HERE'S ANOTHER COOL IDEA: LARP!!!

LARP-ing is another sort of "Hunt" but is designed to be mapped such that players move around outdoors. Definitely potential in the LARP-ing industry... And like I said they pay $100 - $200 and it costs the adventurers $50 per party... Something like that. Where the investment is LOW and the returns are FAIR (reasonable).

I think that might be easier than a "Scavenger Hunt" ... TBH.

Although the Fair was cancelled in 2020 ... Here is the link to their website: https://salonmedieval.com

That might be another set of people who could use some kind of DIGITAL Mapping, Maze-like (notice I said LIKE not exactly) adventuring in their compound or forested land.

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