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Queen Games seeking new Cube Tower game

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doho123
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jeffinberlin wrote:Since

jeffinberlin wrote:
Since Queen Games owns a patent (and pays for it every year) on their "cube tower," they are desparately seeking a new "big box" game using the device as a central mechanic.

Is the patent available online somewhere? I'd like to take a look at it.

MatthewF
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A two-page thread! A two-page

A two-page thread! A two-page thread!

jeffinberlin
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Queen Games

Like most German publishers, Queen Games relies on submissions from outside designers. That's why they've share with some of these designers (including Peer and myself) that they are looking for a game using the tower.

And, yes, they want a finished, extensively playtested game, not just an idea. This is the real deal.

Remember, they also want a "big-box" game, something of the complexity matching their other games of this size, like Wallenstein or, more recently, Batvia. That kind of complexity will probably take a few iterations and lots of playtesting.

There are some nice initial ideas here, though, that someone could build a game around. I like the time travel and commodoties ideas best, but there has to be something good built around that structure. For example, if you use the tower to produce resources (by buying cubes to throw in and see what comes out), you still need a whole lotta game that has some new way of using those resources, building things, scoring points, etc. There are a lot of similar games out there already, so coming up with something original is probably more difficult than coming up with how to use the tower. It's a good start, though.

Another good idea is to see if the cube tower fits into a design you've already been working on. It could be that "missing link" you've been waiting for.

By the way, the cubes normally used with the tower are the smallest available: 8mm x 8mm. I've never tried using the larger 10mm cubes (Caylus sized).

bluesea
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What time line is Queen Games

What time line is Queen Games working to on this? Do they want a game right now?

When does there patent run out? I'm sure that is also a critical factor.

I second listening to the Dice Tower episode recommended by Darke. It comes in late in the show, just after the 1:20 mark. Actually gives some really good strategy tips for how the game is affected by the cube tower.

MatthewF wrote:
A two-page thread! A two-page thread!

And when you click on the link to the thread it takes you to page two automatically! Nice.

jeffinberlin
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Time line

I am unaware of a time line, but the fact that someone emailed Queen due to this thread and got an immediate response AND a cube tower to play with tells me this is a high priority for them. If you can put together something that works well, it sounds like they will playtest it right away.

coco
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Sent

Rulebook sent. Wish me luck!

Néstor

MatthewF
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coco wrote:Rulebook sent.

coco wrote:
Rulebook sent. Wish me luck!

Much luck!

Katherine
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good luck coco!

good luck coco!

Aerjen
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For the curious people among
GamesOnTheBrain
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Rulebooks

Any chance those of you who already sent in a rulebook could share it (or more info) with us?

sedjtroll
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jeffinberlin wrote:I am

jeffinberlin wrote:
I am unaware of a time line, but the fact that someone emailed Queen due to this thread and got an immediate response AND a cube tower to play with tells me this is a high priority for them. If you can put together something that works well, it sounds like they will playtest it right away.

I emailed Queen (through their website) and got no response whatsoever. It was right after reading this thread, so a while ago now :/

I guess I was unlucky. :(

MatthewF
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sedjtroll wrote:I emailed

sedjtroll wrote:
I emailed Queen (through their website) and got no response whatsoever. It was right after reading this thread, so a while ago now :/

I guess I was unlucky. :(


Pretty sure the person who got one emailed them in German. Might have made a difference.

tomchaps
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How detailed was your email?

Did you send them a full ruleset, or just the basic idea? Did you have a full, playtested game using the tower ready to go?

I'm thinking of giving this a shot, and wondering what an (initially) successful designer sent in.

Cheers,
Tom

sedjtroll
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tomchaps wrote:Did you send

tomchaps wrote:
Did you send them a full ruleset, or just the basic idea? Did you have a full, playtested game using the tower ready to go?

I'm thinking of giving this a shot, and wondering what an (initially) successful designer sent in.

Cheers,
Tom


Like the guy who got a tower to playtest with, I just wrote saying that I had some ideas and heard they were looking for a game using their tower. I did not send any specific examples or any rules.

lucasAB
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I e-mailed in German

I suppose one of the principal reasons that I got a response was the fact that I e-mailed them in German.

coco
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Response

lucasAB wrote:
I suppose one of the principal reasons that I got a response was the fact that I e-mailed them in German.

I got response from them, but they're experiencing some problems with the e-mail address.

Néstor

kungfugeek
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For how long?

Isn't it weird that a publisher would be asking for submissions? I thought most of them were continuously flooded with submissions and had more than they can handle anyway.

On a side note, this does sound like an interesting challenge. I suppose they'll still be looking for submissions a year from now, when I might have something that's well-formed enough to submit?

jeffinberlin
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PLAYTEST BEFORE SUBMITTING!

I thought that my previous posts were fairly clear on this, but I think I need to emphasize it again:

German publishers (and probably most other publishers as well) are looking for FINISHED games that have COMPLETE rules and that have been PLAYTESTED EXTENSIVELY!

They ARE flooded with submissions, especially in Germany, so they will not respond to a game idea or an untested rules set.

Don't send them anything that hasn't been playtested by several different groups of gamers. If you don't have groups that can do this, you can probably solicit one here on this site.

You have to be patient in this biz and allow for at least a couple of months to fine-tune things. There really is no rush. If your submission is too rough, they simply won't look at it in detail, and your credibility may be hurt the next time you try to send them something that really is tested and fine-tuned.

The Design Challenges on this site are fun, but submitting to a publisher is a whole different game (pun intended), and you need to commit to a longer process. The work you put into it will be apparant to the experienced publisher!

jwarrend
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Development?

Hi Jeff,

Could you comment on how much development a typical publisher would expect/want to expend on a game, and how much of a factor this is in their decisions over whether to look at a submission or not? Would a publisher ever say "this needs a bit of development work, but it's promising enough that we want to do that work", or will they only look at something that is done and ready to ship save for the artwork?

Thanks,

-Jeff

kungfugeek
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I sometimes wonder that, too...

I mean, since a publisher can change your title, your theme, your art, your rules, and your components, what are they really buying from you?

MatthewF
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It Varies

jwarrend wrote:
Could you comment on how much development a typical publisher would expect/want to expend on a game, and how much of a factor this is in their decisions over whether to look at a submission or not? Would a publisher ever say "this needs a bit of development work, but it's promising enough that we want to do that work", or will they only look at something that is done and ready to ship save for the artwork?

I'm not Jeff, but having talked to a lot of German and American publishers about this in detail, I can say that it varies a great deal. Some publishers really love to develop games, so much so that they're really co-designers on most of the things they publish (Stefan Brück at Alea is an example of this, though of course due to the small number of games they publish each year, he has to really love the idea, and likely will only ever see it if you already have some kind of relationship). Others want really finished games, very fully playtested and ready to go. It can depend on the time of year, too, whether or not there's development time available.

MatthewF
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kungfugeek wrote:Isn't it

kungfugeek wrote:
Isn't it weird that a publisher would be asking for submissions? I thought most of them were continuously flooded with submissions and had more than they can handle anyway.

Publishers, though, need specific types of games, and if they don't tell someone, they'll just get more stuff that doesn't fit their current needs.

jeffinberlin
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Finished designs and development

It probably does vary, although the thing I hear from every publisher I've spoken to is that they want finished games, not ideas. That said, they are human and they may receive a game submission that works fine, is fun, etc., but they see something more in it and/or see how they could tweak it to make it fit into their line of games better.

I usually offer only games that I think would fit in their line (meaning themes, target age groups, box sizes, etc.): For example, I originally submitted my prototype "American Pie" (which is scheduled for release by Winning Moves under another name) to Zoch, thinking they could put it in their Pickomino-sized box and include the silly chickens in the artwork for which they are so famous (as in a bunch of chickens having tea and cake, or something like that). They didn't go for it, but I'm sure they liked the fact that I knew their brand and tried to cater to it. They would not have even looked at it, however, if it was not already a finished design.

From my experience, development just brings a new set of eyes to an already finished (and polished) design--the eyes of the people who are going to invest their money in it and know how to sell it. So they approach your game from a whole different perspective, and development is influenced by those factors. And sometimes they can find ways of polishing the design to make it better in ways you just could think of. See my blog at http://berlingamedesign.blogspot.com/ to see how different people contributed to my first published game along the way (and in this case, the publisher did not change much except the name and a few mechanics/cards that make the game play better).

The main recommendation I can give is to only submit something that you would be happy to try to market yourself (and invest money in), as it is. Publishers are pressed for time and receive too many good submissions from experienced designers to want a "fixer upper" design that may or may not work. Especially when submitting a game with some complexity, as Queen no doubt desires (they want a "big box" game), --that requires extensive testing and fine-tuning, even if the basic idea is fresh and works.
And if you don't have a relationship with the publisher, your design needs to stand out in its quality and maturity in order to get noticed.

MatthewF
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Agreed

To clarify, I agree that most publishers want a really finished game, one that you're certain would sell really well as-is. Just saying that there is a bit of variance among publishers. Even with someone who likes development, I'm sure they'd be happy to re-work your finished-seeming game. :D

jeffinberlin
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I agree too :)

MatthewF wrote:
To clarify, I agree that most publishers want a really finished game, one that you're certain would sell really well as-is. Just saying that there is a bit of variance among publishers. Even with someone who likes development, I'm sure they'd be happy to re-work your finished-seeming game. :D

Yes, I thought that's what you said, and I agree with that, too:)
Just wanted to make sure everyone else understands what is normally expected.

Ekobor
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I'd love to take a swing at

I'd love to take a swing at it, but as I know no German, and as I don't have the money currently to buy any game to get a cube tower to mess with, and I can't seem to find any similar patterns on the web to make my own, I'm a bit in the cold.

Oh well. When I get some money, I'll go looking for one.

SiddGames
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Approximate with Dice

I think for designing purposes, you could just simulate the tower with dice rolling. For each one you throw in, roll a die to see if it gets stuck or makes it out (I think someone linked the anecdotal probabilies somewhere up above). For each cube already stuck in the tower, roll to see if it is knocked out. A little slower than using a real tower, but shouldn't hold you back if you have some ideas you want to explore.

SiddGames
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Updates?

lucasAB wrote:
Well, I don't know about you guys, but I'm going to see if they could produce one of my games that uses their "unique" cube tower mechanism. I e-mailed them in German, and they said they would send me one of their towers, so I guess I can start fidiling around with it next week.

Did you end up receiving your sample tower? I already have a tower and cubes from my copy of Shogun, but I'm at the point with my design/testing where it would be helpful to have another copy or two of the tower.

coco wrote:
Rulebook sent. Wish me luck!

Néstor

Did you get any feedback on your submission, that you can share?

Thanks!

coco
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feedback

SiddGames wrote:

Did you get any feedback on your submission, that you can share?

I sent the rulebook on 10 sept. Mr. Beyer answered me almost instantly and told me he was going to study my idea. No news since then.

Thanks for asking! ;-)

Néstor.

coco
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GamesOnTheBrain wrote:Any

GamesOnTheBrain wrote:
Any chance those of you who already sent in a rulebook could share it (or more info) with us?

I'll do something better. I've developed a PC version of the game. I will release it for free shortly.

Néstor

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