Just discovered this site at the request of Tom Vasel over at Dice Tower. I am designing a space 4X game that has the working title of Space Frontier. I'd like to get a Kickstarter launched for the game around the start of September. I'm a bit intimidated because a lot of people on here seem like they've been developing their games for years and Space Frontier has only been in development for a few months. Still, I am confident in the quality of our product thus far and am excited to start play-testing as our prototype nears completion. I will post more specifics on Space Frontier in a more appropriate forums, but for this one, I just wanted to say hello the community and I am looking forward to the insight and resources that I can hopefully glean from everyone here.
Aspiring Game Designer
Share more about your game... Do you have a development page you're maintaining that has a write up, rules, outlines and samples of what it looks like.
Space themed games are always interesting to me.
It seems the thing most often overlooked is extensive playtesting. Have you playtested your game outside your play group? outside family/friends? etc..
I think you'll find in playtesting that there's a lot of things to change, tweak, fix, etc. Having a kickstarter up in September is very ambitious. I'm not saying don't aim for it, but you'll likely be going to kickstarter with a project that still has a lot of work to do.
Hi,
even good games can get better. The more complex a game is, the more playtesting with a lot of people will resolve in new ideas. Sometimes it is a feeling, that the mechanic can not transfer as intended. If you haven´t played your prototype jet, the toughest part in game design will come - critics. People who have no idea of your work will tear pieces out of it... and that will hurt ! Be prepared, cry into a cushion, get up and work it over, and over, and over.....
It is difficult to tell, when a game is finished, but let time work for you.
To publish with crowdfunding I recommend https://www.facebook.com/groups/320445024722916/
I am actually quite sure that this will be the case. There is absolutely no way that my game will be "done" by the time my Kickstarter begins. I flat out just don't have the resources, and by that I mean both money or time. What I do want to have is an idea I can express and hopefully get people excited about. If I have some strong art and a game that is functional but perhaps not perfect, I'm hoping that will be enough.
I would love to have one of those board game Kickstarters that has a game already completely done and just needs money to mass produce their game, but I am not in that situation. I will need money both to finish the art, and time to perfect things well after the Kickstarter is finished, assuming the project gets funded.
I agree that September is ambitious and that the importance of playtesting is paramount, but I just don't have the convenience of waiting. I'm going to either have to finish this game and have it ready to be distributed by Chrismas, or have to put it off for several years; which I will do if I have to, but want to avoid.
Hi,
to crowdfund you need the crowd befor you start your crowdfunding. You need followers and facebook friends. You maby will need game reviews form independent geeks. So with an unfinished game you will have problems. Any bad comment could stop the project. If you have a good game and good art, maby you can find a publisher for the project who will cooperate ?
Then I'm stuck with problems. That would be neat to find a publisher, but that's down the road a bit because right now I have 0 art, at least 0 art that I think will make it into the game as it stands. Right now it's all placeholder art done by myself, and I am no artist. I do however meet with an artist I'm looking to hire tomorrow. Hopefully that meeting goes well.
I am aware I need the "crowd before the crowdfunding" and joining this site is just one measure. I've been beginning many connections lately to that end. I even joined the Facebook group you linked (looks interesting!) with that in mind.
Over the next couple of weeks I'll be updating a Game Journal... I think. Still working out how this site works but a Game Journal "seems" to be what I want to make to archive my game elements so I can get feedback on them. Anyway, look for more content from me in some form or another fairly soon.
Hi,
I don´t want to discourage you. I haven´t published anything time being, but am reading a lot since 1-2 years and prepare to start my project. My experience, everything takes time, a lot of time. I finished my gamecrafter card game - everything was finished, rules, cards, playtesting and needed nearly 2 weeks just for redoing the layout, rearranging the rules, making ads and images. 2 weeks (2-4 hours a day) without making anything new or important with only 40 cards.
If you are able to build up a good team, that will make things much more easy. I waste a lot of time on things I have to teach myself.
Two aforementioned ideas are a must to prevent 1. Bad PR and 2. Bad game.
1. First impressions are everything, and if your game is not ready or has no following, then the Kickstarter may fall flat on its face. This could lead to problems the next time you kickstart due to the bad taste left in the mouths of those who attempted to fund you or followed you.
A game journal will help significantly with this along with frequent posting and updates of where you are with your game. Be sure to let the world know, through this site or face book or BGG or otherwise, what updates you have on your journal. Blog often.
2. Play testing is essential to creating and fine tuning a game. Make sure your followers are seeing play testing being done and done often. In your journal, give reports of your play tests and what you’ve learned.
Here are two examples from two games I have created, one of which is sitting with a publisher in limbo.
http://farfromhomeboardgame.weebly.com/
http://rollingwestward.weebly.com/
Weebly.com is easy to use and, although limited in artistic expresion, effective in conveying what you are doing.
Good Luck in your endeavor and we look forward to helping you with any questions you have.
If you think you have not put enougth time compared to other designer and thinking your game could still have some flaws. Find some designers willing to read the rules of your game and they will find issues and flaws for sure even if they cannot play the game.
I am very overloaded of things to do right now (a new computer add more chaos to the balance) , but if your rules are not too long, I could give it a try.
If you are able to build up a good team, that will make things much more easy. I waste a lot of time on things I have to teach myself.
Noted. I am giving myself a month to "prepare" for the kickstarter campaign, but they very well may not be enough time. Right now I am designing the game with 2 other people, and am potentially hiring an artist as the 4th (and likely final) member of our team.
First impressions are everything, and if your game is not ready or has no following, then the Kickstarter may fall flat on its face.
A game journal will help significantly with this along with frequent posting and updates of where you are with your game. Be sure to let the world know, through this site or face book or BGG or otherwise, what updates you have on your journal. Blog often.
I'd agree. A website is in the works (and Weebly looks usable and nice and cheap) and I do plan on also connecting to facebook etc. I realize that the kickstarter needs a following BEFORE I plan on even starting it. The reason my game's rules aren't up on this site right now is that some of them don't exist and others need tweaking. They're there, but just as placeholders because I know they need to be improved before it makes any sense to let people criticize them. I'll just be dealing with criticisms of something I know is bad if I put it up. But, things are progressing and I will be ready soon.
"Kickstarter" and "Publisher" shouldn't enter into the equation in any sense until the game is thoroughly playtested. Thoroughly isn't a few playtests, it's a ton of them, with a wide variety of people, including people you've never met before. Thinking about Kickstarter/Publishers this early in the process is not just "counting your chickens before they're hatched", it's more like "starting a corporation and going public on the stock market with your chicken-selling business, even though you own neither a chicken nor an egg yet, and you're sort of sketchy on how one would go about getting one, much less feeding/housing/raising it".
Please do not take this as being mean, I'm just trying to convey the extreme extent to which you're getting ahead of yourself.
First let me say, many of us here (if not all) understand that trying to get into the board game making business usually comes at a time when things seem most critical, and it's easy to feel like "if I don't do it now, I'll never do it". It may seem that you cannot afford to wait any longer, you must start your glorious gaming empire right now. However, if you truly care about your game, your game company, and most importantly, your customers, then take the advice of what everyone on here is saying and understand that, quite simply, your game is not ready. Not nearly ready, not even close to ready, in fact so far from ready you just can't imagine. You are perched at the starting line of a long race. Be prepared for many pits and downfalls, they will happen. I am in no way trying to sound negative, and I fully support that people need to get out there and not be afraid to live their dreams, not be afraid of a little criticism, etc. However, these responses you are receiving are not intended as criticism; we're trying to save you from some real heartache and failure here.
Ok, let's say you put this hither-to untested game up on Kickstarter in September. You've got your print company lined up, you've got all your art, you've got your rule book, and heck, maybe even plastic miniatures. The game looks great, everything seems perfect. Then you are successful, your Kickstarter funds, the orders even magically go off without a hitch. Now is when you lose; when your game hits the play table, and people realize in the first 30 minutes in that you had no idea of the intricate problems they will (invariably) discover. Now, they put the game on the shelf, or maybe sell it at a garage sale... and NEVER buy another game from your company again. Not only that, but when they hear about your next game, they tell who ever they're talking to about how much it sucked. Now you've got angry customers and bad PR; your company struggles or fails entirely.
We're not trying to be harsh, sadly it is simply the reality of the situation. You owe it to your customers, to your friends and family who are investing their time and effort, and mostly to yourself, to put out the best game you can, not just something that's "ok".
I don't know how many times I've been on the third or fourth complete overhaul of a great working prototype that everyone loves to play, and still had that one tiny squeaky wheel that just needed a little fixing, so to speak. Before I knew it, I was on to the next complete overhaul, many times having to start back at the beginning. Yet in the end, the game ALWAYS came out better for it. Even games that seemed 'ready to publish' had such glaring flaws that I just somehow overlooked, or just needed to work more smoothly, which ended up calling for a return to square one. NEVER ignore the squeaky wheel!
Please, give your game the time it deserves to be the best it can be, and may you succeed in all your endeavours!
All the best!
~Dann
All the best!
~Dann
I'm just getting the vibe that people are seeing things in my responses that I'm not putting there. Playtesting is super important. Lots of it is going to happen. It doesn't make sense for an immense amount of it to happen yet, because the game's not finished. And by finished I don't mean done, I mean it has all of it's mechanics working at a rudimentary level. It will soon, likely in a week or so. I know my game is not ready. Heck, I said so. Duh, I get it. Will I have enough time for "enough" playtesting? Probably not. But then, who does? You can never have enough play-testing right? I'll probably want more than I can get, but I'm certainly going to try to get as much as possible.
To use your race analolgy. I'm saying I am going to enter a race, and I plan to finish. And a bunch of people on this forum are like "WOAH WOAH WOAH, planning to finish? Are you insane!? The race hasn't even started yet. You don't have enough training to finish that race."
To that... I'm like, "yeah, duh, the race hasn't started yet, of course I'm not ready. Who's ever is ready for a difficult challenge as soon as they start to plan for finishing it?"
I've got goals. Maybe they're unreasonable and I'll fail, but it seems like a lot of people in this thread are being pretty critical over my tight timetable. I can't afford infinite time. It is what it is. I've set a time-table with the time I've got. Perhaps it's an unreasonable one and it is doomed to failure, but it is still what I've got. It cannot be changed in the foreseeable future, so I'm dealing with the hand that I've been dealt. I can't be "convinced" to do something different, other than perhaps give up and shelve the project for several years. I have looked at all reasonable options, and those are the only 2 that are feasible. Time crunch now, or not bother to have started. Since I have started, I would like to see things through.
Pretty much everyone here has the caveat that they're not trying to dump on me, which I really do appreciate. I don't feel picked on, but I wanted to make clear that, yes, I realize that this is ambitious. The ambitious nature of the game and the lack of time I have to perfect it will increase my chance of failure. I'm reading that loud and clear. I'm doing it anyway because I'm committed. Failing to do this would be no different then sitting at home and continuing to be unemployed and broke. At least here, I have a chance. Long shot for sure, of course, but at least I have a chance to do something worthwhile that people might enjoy. And I do have to say, that having the game to work on with achievable short-term goals has done wonders for my disposition. I'm happier since having worked on it and it brings me great fulfillment. If it fails in the long run, well, that's a bummer, but I haven't had any successes lately anyway so that's just par the course.
It's not like Space Frontier is going to be untested going into Kickstarter. It's not like after (one could hope) the kickstarter is successful it is going to be shipped the following weekend. Even with a successful kickstarter, the game probably won't be ready for production until Christmas. I like to think that is a lot of time to continue to perfect gameplay and iron our wrinkles. I want this to be the best game ever created, of course, every designer wants that for their projects. I just realize that time is an issue, and it's better that I know my limitations and handicaps now so I can plan for them or just flat out work harder, then slowly develop it in my free time over the course of several years but lose my house and car.
Heck, just recently I COMPLETELY revamped the combat system in my game. It was as you call it, as squeaky wheel. It worked well enough, but I was never completely happy with it. Now that I've spent the time to rework it, I'm much happier with it. And also, it's still not perfect, so I'll likely be revamping it again after I get some playtester feedback. I hear everybody loud and clear. I just wish they'd stop acting like I said playtesting is for people who are too dumb to design perfect games the first time around. I know I need playtesting. Heck, I know my game needs a lot of things, and it will hopefully get as much of them as it can, which in turn, will hopefully be enough.
All any designer can really do is hope it's enough.
Hey man,
I just wanted to say that ambition is good! To have a goal you're working your way towards and a deadline to keep you motivated. Just be careful not to overwork yourself. Making a board game should be something you enjoy doing and not a chore or another stress factor in your life and I bet no matter what you do in life there will be enough other things that will cause you headaches and sleepless nights.
So enjoy the process, and go for what you want with the game. If you want it out by christmas then I say go for it. You have taken a step forward and and getting from A to B is usually not hard if you just keep walking!
However, being a soldier by profession I do have to say that a plan only last until you first encounter the enemy! So while you may have a perfect plan on how to reach your goal, be prepared to make changes. Be prepared to spend extra time playtesting if that proves nessecary. Be prepared to take a break from it every now and then or to step back and see it in a different light.
I wish you good luck with your endeavor and hope you reach your goal!
In any case there will always be another year and space is infinite they say ;)
I just wanted to say that ambition is good! To have a goal you're working your way towards and a deadline to keep you motivated. Just be careful not to overwork yourself. Making a board game should be something you enjoy doing and not a chore or another stress factor in your life and I bet no matter what you do in life there will be enough other things that will cause you headaches and sleepless nights.
I'll keep that in mind, thanks. I WISH I had a perfect plan, but your other point is also noted. Flexibility is going to be a necessity in order to succeed. It's not that I can't be flexible, it's just my timetable "at the moment" can't be, so I'm doing my best to work around that because it seems unalterable for the foreseeable future.
Thanks for the well-wishing.
Alright. Do I have all those things? No, I just started on here. I certainly plan to have them soon though. I don't even know how to do all of that stuff yet, but I am sure learning won't be hard. My prototype map/board and cards are all almost finished and I should be able to start sharing that soon.
I think the theme of Space Frontier is that it is fleets, but not empires. Most space games I have seen either focus on conquering the entire galaxy with an enormous space armada or focusing on your single totally awesome ship. Space Frontier takes a bit of a middle ground with you having up to four fleets of ships and dealing with a single system.
Have I extensively playtested? Again, no. Although hopefully that will begin soon, within the next week or so, when my internal playtesting has ironed out all the obvious wrinkles and I have built all of my prototype components.